On Faith in Humanity

[Glaurung26]

Hey, I'm not sure what I want from this topic. I think I just want some perspective on belief, faith and the purpose of life. I typed out my thoughts and tried my best to outline where I'm coming from. It's a long read but here if you want it:

 

Spoiler

I'm trying to parse my thoughts on my faith, or belief, or religion, if it can even be called that. I'm not a particularly religious, spiritual or dogmatic person. I would even say I'm pretty materialist in the metaphysical sense. I guess I'm agnostic if I had to pick a label. I don't firmly believe there is no divinity, magic, extra dimensions, alternate realities, etc. But I don't have sufficient evidence to my own confidence that there is anything beyond subatomic particles bouncing around in a cosmic pool table. So I basically just ignore the supernatural. Instead, at least I hope, I have faith in humanity, civilization and life itself.

 

Well at least I think I have faith in it. It's a pretty common joke or meme of “giving up on humanity” or “giving up on people.” A metaphorical shrug to acknowledge the futility of individual agency or affecting the human system in any meaningful way. Yet we continue to interact with other people and engage with civilization. So it must be worth the frustration in at least a practical sense. Gotta get money for food, clothes, housing, electricity somehow. I've said the same thing myself but something in me doesn't want me to withdraw. Something inside of me wants to care, wants to “make a difference” despite all the abuse and discouragement it suffers. It's not really a logical or intellectual source. The pragmatist in me says the best I can hope for is to make things as good for just me and maybe one or two others as I can and be grateful for getting that much; nothing else is feasible and the rest of the world isn't any of my business. But yet I still want to.

 

A more religious person would cite this feeling, this drive as divine inspiration, “the touch of God” or some other religious phenomenon. I think it would be hilarious if God did really did light a fire subtly on a non-believer to do good in the world, but I don't think that's what this is. Realistically this is probably a mental or existential fight or flight response to my feelings of being overwhelmed by existential futility. I've always been a hair idealistic and romantic despite years of nihilistic crust and rust on my psyche. I think I'm feeling lost because, it seems to me from my perspective that humanity is giving me equal evidence of it's potential for good and for bad. Good and bad in this context being of relevance to the collective individuals composing humanity.

 

[Brief tangent] I don't believe in serving an idea. I believe in utilizing an idea or system to help physical individuals. Unlike practical reality, I believe “public servants” should actually “serve” the public. Things like wealth, power, skewed perspective and keeping your job can eclipse the “moral and ethical duty” sans a few exceptional individuals.

 

This drive or this feeling I think really picked up after I dropped out of college (the first time) and the facade of my life's destiny or purpose dropped out from under me. I had been groomed and prepared to go to college, graduate, get a career then do that til I retired. When I couldn't do that I was left struggling with what to do with myself and my life. College =/ career and fulfillment, college = frustration and debt for me. So amidst this crisis a feeling began to well up inside me. That I'm supposed to “do something” or to “fulfill a purpose.”

 

I didn't have a clear vision in mind. It was a small seed that fed upon my personality, experiences, beliefs, my interest in philosophy and maybe even my views of romanticized heroism. That I should do something, that I should be something. Ironically Dune by Frank Herbert really called out to me. It's suppose to be a deconstruction of messiah worship, prescience and being shackled to heroes on pedestals, from what I understand. But I think it may have had the opposite of the intended effect. The notion of a “Golden Path” for humanity and civilization got inside my head and spoke to me on a deep level. It's a really seductive and attractive idea of striving for this optimal path and putting your faith in it leading you to the right place. My logic and my emotion are at war on this. As a student of history I know that relying to much on the efforts of one single person and the resulting power vacuum following can be catastrophic and should be avoided. But I also want unity, cooperation and common purpose to strive towards. I think I believe I should help humanity find it's purpose beyond subsistence and survival.

 

Civilization has a massive effect on our global environment. We cut down forests, level mountains, extinguish species, pollute the atmosphere, build massive cities and are as numerous as some insect species. We can do great damage but we can also cultivate and protect some of the plants and animals. We love art and we love war. Humanity has massive potential, in whichever context. I would like to see humans fill the natural web niche of being guardians and shepherds of life as we know it. Nature isn't big on intent but I think it would be neat if we were life's macro scale attempt at some structure, order and protection against extinction level threats like asteroids and climate fluctuation (oops). Micro organisms actually are the foundation of maintaining the biosphere but we could hypothetically help. Maybe we'll help colonize life on other planets or star systems. It's a long shot but so was life forming in the first place.

 

I'm not sure what I want here, just to explain my crisis of faith in civilization. Humans are difficult to understand, let alone manage, in any great number. Our numbers are a blessing and a curse, as is the diversity of our ideas and beliefs. We're adaptive and intelligent, creative and insightful but struggle and war to implement our ideas. Even just agreeing is a massive undertaking. How do I understand them? How do I help them? Should I help them? What can I do? What does 'helping' actually look like? Do I have time? Is it even worth trying? Will it work? These are the questions I keep asking myself over and over again.

 

I don't deserve to be humanity's hero or leader but I would like to be its harbinger. A humble soldier fighting against entropy and chaos to protect what I care about. I don't want accolades or fame, just meaning and purpose. Knowing that I'm making a difference.

 

I should speak to a counselor sometime about this but wouldn't mind some thoughts about me or from the topic of humanity or just insight on faith in general. I want to have faith, I struggle with it daily, but I keep getting drawn back into it despite the challenges. I want to do good in the world but struggle with knowing how or whether I even should try. I'm sure it's one of those "only you can answer this question for yourself" things. Make sense or am I as crazy as I feel?

[ChloeBee]

This is a really good and thought provoking post. I'll try to reply in detail later when I have more time.

[Glaurung26]

Thank you for reading. I was sorting out my thoughts and trying to parse them into a legible format. I find that vague questions bring vague answers so I wanted to be specific if I could. Even so it's a vague concept and at the end of the day I may just be commiserating. 😅 But hey, commisery loves company.

[Jamie]

Reminds me of myself in a lot of ways. I wasn't raised up with religion or any sort of spirituality, no traditions in that sense. I had literally never stepped foot in a building of worship for my whole life until the past year or so. 

 

There definitely is an ingrained human need to search for meaning and purpose. I think it whispers differently to every person, and it shouts and sings at some. Everyone needs something, but not everyone wants or needs the same thing. 

 

Quote

"I'm not a particularly religious, spiritual or dogmatic person. I would even say I'm pretty materialist in the metaphysical sense. I guess I'm agnostic if I had to pick a label. I don't firmly believe there is no divinity, magic, extra dimensions, alternate realities, etc. But I don't have sufficient evidence to my own confidence that there is anything beyond subatomic particles bouncing around in a cosmic pool table. So I basically just ignore the supernatural. Instead, at least I hope, I have faith in humanity, civilization and life itself."

Could have been written by myself, a while ago. 

 

Then it was actually my tulpa brother... he was one of those people who got more than a whisper. We both were having a hard time, but Cassidy was really hurting, aimless, and ashamed. Gospel music got recommended out-of-the blue and he started listening to that, and he read a lot of transcendentalist poetry and books a la Walden... He found the message of Jesus's Salvation and what's generally summarized as "The Word" (you know, the one people ask if you've heard) and that was that... He had been acting rrrrreal Christian for at least a month before one day he came up and told me he'd accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and he was Christian now. I wasn't happy. 

 

I really thought the best way to do things was to have a real individual form of spirituality. A personal value system that takes care of that spiritual need. Not some dogma, some big, arguably the biggest institution... organized religion... People talk about religion and Christianity being cult-y and it's true, in a lot of places it is. So we didn't start at a Christian church, we went to a Unitarian Universality church. Unitarian Universalism is like a non-religious place of worship, and it's really really liberal/leftist. Some actually are Christian but mine was not, it was non-credential. You wouldn't find the word "God' or "Lord" in the hymns and we pulled things from all religions, sometimes we invoked the four elements like pagans, sometimes we meditated, sometimes we had prayerful silent contemplation. 

 

Unitarian Universalism is based off two things: the 7 Principles, and the Six Sources. 

 

It all seems so nice and kosher, right? Be nice to people, work for peace, value the universal messages found throughout world religions? And it is... UUs are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. I had three youth group leaders: a nondenominational liberal Christian schoolteacher, a pagan woman who I highly suspect is a soulbonder, and an ex-catholic Buddha-loving sandal-wearing, Carl Sagan-quoting staunch atheist. 

 

But the missing piece for me was the lack of standards. UUs will never say "This is wrong" unless it's against something abstract like racism or transphobia. It's sort of nice that the pagans and the Christians can come and sit together, but it felt increasingly hypocritical... Me and my brothers were there to worship God, not just have social hour. And yeah... somewhere in there, both myself and my other inside-brother Gavin also said, you know what, yeah, Jesus is Lord and Savior. 

 

So we started going to a different church, an actually Christian church, and it's not been all roses there either. Sometimes I disagree with the pastor. Sometimes I disagree with the people. But I like it a lot more because I like to read the Bible, it's a source of tradition and culture for me and deeply meaningful, and the services at this place are at least 50% literal Bible reading every week. The UU service was more like call-to-action speeches about freedom and equality. 

 

I realized that being Christian didn't have to mean becoming some sort of pawn or sheep who agrees with everything the church says or that's prevalent in the mainstream Christian culture. My religious beliefs are still very self-led, not stuff that was drilled into me. But worship in a church is also pretty important to me... it's a time to worship in a group, to sing songs, and even if I don't always agree with the pastor, he's studied all this stuff for many more years than me and knows things I don't.

 

---

 

I never thought I would embrace an existing religious tradition rather than keeping on with my general, non-religious, vaguely humanitarian spiritual life of just.. "I guess I should be a good person, I don't really have any reason to believe in God or things like that." But there's so much value in it. It's really helped me out a lot. I used to worry, "Oh no, what if I'm religious and believe in God for a couple years, but then I realize it's all fake and have to backtrack???" But now I don't really... first off, I have faith and I'm not really worried that "it's all fake", and secondly, even if I realize I don't believe what I used to believe anymore, well... you just have to move on, it's good that I figured it out. 

 

Standards, values, meaning, purpose, virtues. Valuing traditions and culture imbibe those into people, but there's still plenty of room to find your own path. 

 

This is being ninja'd lol. 

 

 

[Glaurung26]

Lol thanks for the ninja. I have gripes of the institutionalism of religion but I have seen the sense of fellowship it can bring on the local and community level. I admire and even envy it. The scripture and the songs sound like nonsense to me but I hear the belief in their voices. Just because it's not for me doesn't mean it's not real to them. I guess it's my pragmatism that I respect traditions more I see a demonstrable need or use for than ones that are vestigial from a bygone era that are kept around for nostalgia.

 

I wish I could just take a century or two and go live a bunch of lives with different people and cultures to appreciate humanity better. Who we really are not just what I can drive to and what I interact with through media.

[Guest]

The advice my system gave me (SheShe) is, be good to yourself, take care of yourself, and love yourself, then you'll be prepared to help others and the world.

 

It helped a lot to have the awakening I did, I truly don't care to get the fancy car or stockpile of money. I like to work, I know working helps others, not just myself, so that would be enough. In addition to that I have a home business in the service industry that was immune to this covid thing, I definitely help others in profound ways.

 

I have proven myself in both fields and I'm loved, but I didn't need that, since I love myself and my system is like cherries on top of already delicious cake.

 

In 2018, I was in hell, no capability to help anyone, hated myself and my life. 

 

My life actually didn't significantly change. I still live in the same place, have the same car, work the same jobs, etc. What changed was my perspective.

 

Shadow work helped me get there.

Edited May 9, 2021 by BearBaeBeau

[Luminesce]

Caring about humanity is a pretty tough job. A lot of the time when I try to make a difference, people ask me why I bother and say I'm just going to tire myself out and end up disappointed (or worse), unless I only care about myself.

 

Well, I'd say a lot of the core values of my humanitarian beliefs start at "Why not?". Like, "If being happy and having fun feels good, then that's good, right? So why not try to be those things?", and "If other people can be happy or sad, why wouldn't I also want them to be happy?". Why would I not want to promote the best for everyone? The only remotely reasonable answer I can think of to that is "Because it's hard". But then I pose that up against my entire life I'm going to live - will it be worth not helping people, not striving to make the world a better place, not trying to make as many people happy as possible, because it would be hard?

 

The answer to that for me is a pretty clear "No way". And so my core values are in place, and I follow them. Any positive difference I can make is the difference I could make, any non-zero gain is a non-zero gain. I won't be able to fix the entire world, but my goal isn't "Make EVERYTHING good", it's "Make as much good as I possibly can". Why? Because those who I affect will appreciate it, or even if they don't, they'll still have a better life experience to some extent. And that's what I care about. I just don't see any point in being anything else.

 

 

I could understand "Because why not?" not being a good enough motivator for someone, I guess. That's just the logical core of my values, though. You could also say, "Seeing other people happy or having fun, as opposed to sad or in pain, makes me feel better. So I want to make as many other people feel good as I can, so that I can feel better living with them." Practically speaking, that's probably closer to how I actually work in practice. It makes me feel bad to see people upset or in pain, so I want to do what I reasonably can to help them not be that way. That should also be a good enough core value to drive you.

 

From there, what motivation/fulfillment usually comes down to is just whether or not you can see the results of your efforts, to feel like it's still worth it. Compare for example, handing out food (that you had nothing to do with) at a homeless shelter. That will make you feel good and like you're doing something, even if logically you're doing almost nothing because literally anyone could hand out food. But you directly see the impact you're having on people who really need the aid, and so you feel good.

 

Now imagine you've got a very high income, and every month you donate $800 to a charity (let's pretend said charity is not a scam as they often are, lol) that's supposed to buy food for children in need or something. Logically, you're making a MUCH bigger difference than your manpower in literally just handing out food was. But what your brain sees, is a loss of money, with minor logical reassurance that it's definitely helping people, somewhere. This is very likely to not leave you feeling super fulfilled and like you're making a difference, unless you've got a very good head on your shoulders anyway. Because you're not actually receiving any direct feedback telling your brain you're helping.

 

 

So if motivation is your concern, keep this concept in mind when choosing your actions. Whether you do something huge, or do something small, you WILL be a positive difference in the world. And THAT means, that keeping yourself motivated is extremely important. Maybe you make a bigger difference doing an unfulfilling thing (only hypothetically, it can absolutely be fulfilling) like donating your hard earned money than volunteering at a homeless shelter, so you do that for a while - but if you get burnt out and lose the motivation to keep helping people, you're going to end up having done much less good in the long run than if you'd chosen something that kept you feeling good and continuing to help. So, balance the good you do to make sure you keep feeling good about it, to make sure you keep making a difference, no matter how small.

 

Because my truest bottom line in why I do what I do, is that people are going to be living in this world regardless of what I do. Whether I care or not, people will be suffering, and that's why I don't see a choice but to care. But I AM just one small person without much effect, and that's why I also rely on others like you who are also willing to help, to become a net of people all over the world working to make it a better place. THAT motivation and logic is what motivates me to, say, write this post. I definitely want as many allies as I can get in caring about humanity, since so many people aren't strong enough to. We can do it for all of them.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Luminesce

[ChloeBee]

Okay, time to put on my Smart Guy Hat and attempt to respond in a meaningful way.

 

15 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

Well at least I think I have faith in it. It's a pretty common joke or meme of “giving up on humanity” or “giving up on people.” A metaphorical shrug to acknowledge the futility of individual agency or affecting the human system in any meaningful way. Yet we continue to interact with other people and engage with civilization. So it must be worth the frustration in at least a practical sense. Gotta get money for food, clothes, housing, electricity somehow.

 

That's universally true; unless you are completely and totally self-sufficient (and virtually no one is), you have to interact with the rest of civilization in some way or another. It's not a choice; the only choice is in how it's done.

 

15 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

The pragmatist in me says the best I can hope for is to make things as good for just me and maybe one or two others as I can and be grateful for getting that much; nothing else is feasible and the rest of the world isn't any of my business. But yet I still want to.

 

I believe I've passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight
I once believed in causes too
I had my pointless point of view
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right

- "Angry Young Man" by Billy Joel

 

16 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

Realistically this is probably a mental or existential fight or flight response to my feelings of being overwhelmed by existential futility.

 

"Existential Futility" would make a good name for my memoirs if I were ever to write them.

 

16 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

I didn't have a clear vision in mind. It was a small seed that fed upon my personality, experiences, beliefs, my interest in philosophy and maybe even my views of romanticized heroism. That I should do something, that I should be something.

 

I've had a very similar feeling most of my life. I even touched on the topic a few months ago on this forum when I was talking about my Mentor; my childhood headmate. I used to have huge, egotistical notions of myself, that I was destined for greatness, that everything up until this point has been one great trial. I have only fully given up on that notion within the last year. Honestly, most of us are average. We're better than average in some ways and below others in other ways, but most of us aren't going to change the world.

 

16 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

My logic and my emotion are at war on this. As a student of history I know that relying to much on the efforts of one single person and the resulting power vacuum following can be catastrophic and should be avoided. But I also want unity, cooperation and common purpose to strive towards. I think I believe I should help humanity find it's purpose beyond subsistence and survival.

 

Individual men have altered the course of world history with their will. This might seems to contradict what I just said in the paragraph above when I said most people aren't extraordinary. It's true; MOST aren't. But some are. Look at men like Julius Caesar or Napoleon; specific circumstances may have created them but neither man was in any way inevitable, and each altered the course of world history. The question is, are YOU that kind of man? I don't want to be a downer, but the chances are low. They are not zero, however. It's all right to strive for something that's highly unlikely, but get ready for a high degree of heartbreak along the way.

 

16 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

Civilization has a massive effect on our global environment. We cut down forests, level mountains, extinguish species, pollute the atmosphere, build massive cities and are as numerous as some insect species. We can do great damage but we can also cultivate and protect some of the plants and animals. We love art and we love war. Humanity has massive potential, in whichever context. I would like to see humans fill the natural web niche of being guardians and shepherds of life as we know it. Nature isn't big on intent but I think it would be neat if we were life's macro scale attempt at some structure, order and protection against extinction level threats like asteroids and climate fluctuation (oops). Micro organisms actually are the foundation of maintaining the biosphere but we could hypothetically help. Maybe we'll help colonize life on other planets or star systems. It's a long shot but so was life forming in the first place.

 

Humans are my favorite thing in the entirety of the universe. I believe conquest is our birthright; conquest of nature, conquest of ourselves, and hopefully eventually conquest of the stars. I believe we have the right to shape the universe in whatever way we please, but of course we aren't free of the consequences. I do think it is important for us to be stewards of other forms of life on our world and any others we can find; but I'll always put humanity's needs before those of any rare tropical frog or hypothetical Martian sand worm. War is an inevitable and inseparable part of human nature. Even in that way we are not that different from other forms of life; there is always competition. We just have the ability to be more well organized, employ more intelligent strategies, and use technology as part of that competition. 

 

16 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

I'm not sure what I want here, just to explain my crisis of faith in civilization. Humans are difficult to understand, let alone manage, in any great number. Our numbers are a blessing and a curse, as is the diversity of our ideas and beliefs. We're adaptive and intelligent, creative and insightful but struggle and war to implement our ideas. Even just agreeing is a massive undertaking. How do I understand them? How do I help them? Should I help them? What can I do? What does 'helping' actually look like? Do I have time? Is it even worth trying? Will it work? These are the questions I keep asking myself over and over again.

 

I can't tell you what you should do. Me, I've tapped out. I've become so cynical in regards to humanity that I fully believe we are just going to regress from here until we find a way to make ourselves extinct in a few hundred or thousand years. Bad people with bad ideas are winning around the world; they have been for a long time and our ability to counter them is diminishing by the day. I'd say more but I refuse to talk about politics on this forum, so I won't. However, that's just my opinion. I'd love to be wrong about this. Just make sure that you're fighting for the right thing, and not accidentally being a stooge for someone else's gain.

 

16 hours ago, Glaurung26 said:

I don't deserve to be humanity's hero or leader but I would like to be its harbinger. A humble soldier fighting against entropy and chaos to protect what I care about. I don't want accolades or fame, just meaning and purpose. Knowing that I'm making a difference.

 

Like I said before, go ahead an do it if you believe strongly in it, but prepare yourself for the heartbreak. You will feel it. A lot. If I could go back in time and stop myself from going down this road for the last 20 years, I probably would. The deeper you dig the more ugly truths you will find. I know things to be true that would have me vilified for just speaking them. You have to have a heart of gold and balls of steel to be a hero when everyone thinks your a villain. I don't. So I quit. I'm just some guy. But the choice is yours: Your mental health vs that small shot at ultimate actualization and transcendence.

[Luminesce]

I will never care how hard of a life I had if I spent it trying to make the world a better place in any way. I can't imagine the distorted perspective required to regret such a thing, personally. My life is absolutely not worth more than all of those whose lives I've touched, and I can't personally imagine placing anything above that cause

 

(Clearly others can, and sometimes it's all they can do to try to help themselves, and that's okay - everyone does what they can)

[Guest]

Especially if it can lead to burning you out, that's counterproductive.