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Should we have a second LOTPW thread (or something similar)?


Ranger
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I saw this post in LOTPW and it reminded me of this idea:

 

Quote

That's what happens when you try to use forums in 2021, there are 5 regulars at best and the community is half dead (and watered down)

At least there's content in the old threads for years to come

 

I think forum activity is a good sign. I don't like Reddit because you can't really have an in-depth discussion there, you're not really supposed to spend a couple hours on a single post. Discord is good for conversations but then you can't find stuff. The forum is a happy medium, especially with LOTPW. However, like a Discord channel, LOTPW works better with a small group of people.

 



I wonder if it would be worthwhile to create a second LOTPW thread for the forums. (I think Ashley?) mentioned more activity spiked for newer users with a duplicate forum game thread, but the conversation has more or less been kept to LOTPW and was never really expanded on. Another thing I learned about tulpamancy is it seems most productive when there are clusters of groups who all work together, as I have experienced first hand. Most notably, we're still here and contributing to the forum.

 

I think the most recent revival of the tulpas only thread is a good example of this. Even though LOTPW is open to all, I wonder if new users are intimidated by the fact everyone in LOTPW knows each other. While the LOTPW crowd evolved over time, it seems to be the same users who come back to post in the last few years- Lumi's system, Srn, us, JGC, Bre, and the Bear system. With Lumi's system being the exception, we all joined in 2018. It's almost like LOTPW is a time capsule, even though 3 years old isn't too old yet.

 

The concept of having small groups for tulpamancy had also been tossed around. Mentorship puts a lot of strain on older tulpamancers while the Q&A approach is not always a cozy fit for potential active members. While I believe both things are good and we should promote these, I think having a small group of tulpamancers like the 2018 LOTPW group can benifit from the best of both worlds and feed into the other two (more experienced members can be mentors and help answer Q&A threads). Plus, I have found debating and sharing my progress with the same people has inspired me to grow. Additionally, even though the LOTPW gang has created other spaces on Discord and the cBox, those tend to die and cycle while LOTPW is both the reason those spaces exist and a constant even when those spaces die.

 

I don't know if it's possible or ideal to discourage anyone from the 2018 group from posting in a new thread. However, I hope that it being a fresh game would do so naturally. It having its own score means that anyone new would have a fresh start and anyone who has posted for a long time can't use their previous advantage. Even though the idea of investing in a duplicate forum game thread seems silly, it seems to have motivated a good chunk of the active members from 2018 to stick around for 2-3 years.

 

I wonder if there will be fear a duplicate forum game thread won't work, but I think there's a real chance it could. From what I heard, the darkest days of the forum were from 2016-2017. It wasn't until the LOTPW group of 2018 got started the forum activity increased.

 

However, LOTPW has been around since 2011, and the forum game by itself may not be enough. I'm not really sure what happened in 2018, but I think having the LOTPW thread is a key ingredient. I hope with this thread, we may be able to figure out what went right back then and see if we can recreate it.

I'm Ranger, GrayTheCat's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I go by Rosalin or Ronan sometimes. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

 

If I missed seeing your art, please PM/DM me!

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(edited)
49 minutes ago, Ranger said:

(I think Ashley?) mentioned more activity spiked for newer users with a duplicate forum game thread

 

Mentioned? I flipping did it and it was called "Last one to post longest wins" it was active for new users and we were having an interesting time with it, then the wet blanket Apollo merged it into LOTPW because it was "in bad taste and a duplicate of an existing game" so yeah, I mentioned it and I mentioned it again just now.

 

49 minutes ago, Ranger said:

I wonder if there will be fear a duplicate forum game thread

 

Justified by actual experience, but you all do whatever you can get away with. We're not doing any of that. We're not as active as we used to be.

 

49 minutes ago, Ranger said:

figure out what went right

 

I'll tell you what went wrong, a couple doctrinals like Vos and Apollo calling newbies like Reilyn cringe and basically shaming them for being enthusiastic in Vinny and Viper's chat the same way they did in the Discord in general.

 

That, along with the crack down on ISC really did a lot of damage to the moral around here at the time. The software changes put the nail in the coffin for a couple systems like Someone and EVI.

 

Overall the community has two groups of people. Those who are genuinely trying to have fun with it and those who are seemingly too hung up on making things not fun.

 

But you know.

 

 

Edited by Ashley
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I absolutely felt that way about LOTPW. It felt like an existing conversation that I was butting in on, knew nothing of what was going on and no one in it. I don't recall how but I finally jumped on board once I realized it was basically the "chat thread" and I knew everyone better and was more comfortable chiming in. Also like you mentioned Tulpas Only is a gem and we would never have saw it until it got necroed. Old things get buried by new stuff. I sometimes search but usually just go by recent activity.

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17 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I'll tell you what went wrong, a couple doctrinals like Vos and Apollo calling newbies like Reilyn cringe and basically shaming them for being enthusiastic in Vinny and Viper's chat the same way they did in the Discord in general.

 

That's not how I remembered that conversation going.

 

However, discussing the current server culture and what is best for the community is an ongoing conversation I think is worth having. I tend to be more strict and I stand by that, I want to promote serious discussion. I like the professional setting we have, I don't want to lose that in exchange for a different culture climate. However, I understand that climate can be suffocating for some, and having a more relaxed environment can promote a serious one. I see value in having spaces in the same community that have slightly different climates, that way there's a little something for everyone. LOTPW is one of those things that seems to naturally cater to everyone, mostly because it's active enough but not too spammy and it allows for discussion to come and go every now and then- like our #lounge channel on the Discord server.

 

I don't think changing the server climate completely is the right answer. I think LOTPW being a friendly place to post whatever makes people feel safe enough to contribute in the first place, but if they don't like the server culture at all, this may not be the right place for them. For instance, I don't want to go back to the 4 chan culture that started this forum. I think that culture is important and if there's a growing resurgence of it we should accommodate it, but I don't want that to be the defining culture of the forum.

 

24 minutes ago, Glaurung26 said:

I absolutely felt that way about LOTPW. It felt like an existing conversation that I was butting in on, knew nothing of what was going on and no one in it. I don't recall how but I finally jumped on board once I realized it was basically the "chat thread" and I knew everyone better and was more comfortable chiming in.

 

This is what I feared. The LOTPW group is a double edged sword- it promotes growth but scares away people who are not part of the "in-group".

 

27 minutes ago, Glaurung26 said:

Old things get buried by new stuff. I sometimes search but usually just go by recent activity.

 

While I think this can be a problem, we did mention here in this discussion about duplicate threads some people are afraid of long threads- and given LOTPW, it's kind of the same reason why- people see an old conversation and feel left out, there's too much to read (and with LOTPW, next to impossible).

 

I think the tulpa thread for Jania became what LOTPW became for us- a place to hang out in. Unfortunately, it's barred to just your tulpas, and that can keep out new hosts and systems with tulpas who are not as interested in the thread. I don't think anything should be done to the thread, but I wonder if having your own thread would be nice.

I'm Ranger, GrayTheCat's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I go by Rosalin or Ronan sometimes. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

 

If I missed seeing your art, please PM/DM me!

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I don't think having a second LOTPW type thread is necessary or will work; one of two things will happen: Either the new thread would die out or the original LOTPW thread would, and either way we'd be back to where we started. Instead, the solution is to be even more welcoming to new people. See someone you don't know who posted in the LOTPW or elsewhere? Respond to them like they've always been here, as if that same post was made by a name you know. Of course, this is void if the person in question is acting inappropriately, but once you've been on the internet long enough it's pretty easy to figure out who is posting in good faith after a relatively small number of posts.

 

In any kind of social group it's inevitable that cliques and a social hierarchy will develop. That can't really be helped. But being welcoming of newcomers, avoiding gatekeeper behavior while at the same time keeping high standards, and shaming inappropriate and/or overly belligerent posters will go a long way into coaxing more people to post. I can't speak for anyone else, but Simmie and I are always happy to talk to anyone whether they joined in 2012 and have 10,000 post or have one post and joined yesterday.

Phil. 😎 Host of Simmie.

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5 minutes ago, September13 said:

I don't think having a second LOTPW type thread is necessary or will work; one of two things will happen: Either the new thread would die out or the original LOTPW thread would, and either way we'd be back to where we started.

 

I worry about that too. If the new group fizzles out, if the 2018 group takes over the new thread, or if a new hybrid group rises, scaring away half of both while the other thread dies. In a perfect world I would like to see both threads going, but I can also see how that can backfire. I don't know if it's risky enough trying it would hurt the current active user base though...

 

8 minutes ago, September13 said:

Instead, the solution is to be even more welcoming to new people. See someone you don't know who posted in the LOTPW or elsewhere? Respond to them like they've always been here, as if that same post was made by a name you know. Of course, this is void if the person in question is acting inappropriately, but once you've been on the internet long enough it's pretty easy to figure out who is posting in good faith after a relatively small number of posts.

 

In the past we have tried pinging new users, but I don't recall trying to treat them like old friends. I don't know if I could get away with that, I don't want to scare them away by interacting with them too much. Maybe mentorship could act as a loophole, if you had a 2018 member mentor someone else and then invite them to LOTPW. However, that might feel like being a student who's invited to the teacher's lounge- it might be a little weird!

 

I guess the ultimate question is does the LOTPW group feel like a different enough group that other people can't hop in without feeling weird on or is the LOTPW group a limitless club that can successfully include a good chunk of the active users on the forum?

I'm Ranger, GrayTheCat's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I go by Rosalin or Ronan sometimes. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

 

If I missed seeing your art, please PM/DM me!

Temporary Log | Switching Log | Yay! | Bre Translator

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12 minutes ago, Ranger said:

In the past we have tried pinging new users, but I don't recall trying to treat them like old friends. I don't know if I could get away with that, I don't want to scare them away by interacting with them too much.

 

It's definitely a tricky balance to pull off. But it's something I've learned to do in my 15+ years in the workplace. (God I sound like such a boomer lol). I worked at a lot of high turnover jobs where people would come in feeling nervous and not sure they fit in. And sure, most of them weren't the kind of people I'd hang out with by choice outside of work. And yet, here we were working and spending a lot of time together. So I treat the new person as if we're already friends while everyone around me is Big Leauging the newbie. I think this philosophy can carry over to any kind of long-term social situation like being part of an online community.

 

It basically boils down to this: Don't Big League people. Stay humble and treat people well always, protect the weak, but never let others walk on you either. That's about it.

Phil. 😎 Host of Simmie.

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(edited)

Wait a minute, we already have another LOTPW

 

 

Funny how this one was okay but mine wasn't, funny indeed.

 

Also, my main beef with the doctrinals wasn't their aversion to ISC, or them targeting us in particular, obviously we could take it.

 

Edited by Ashley
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  • 6 months later...

Monthly necro spree amirite--

 

I think I've got an interesting take on this all, because as you forgot Ranger(I probs just wasn't active at time of posting), I'm part of the 2018 group lol. I was active a lot back in late 2018-early 2019, but I fell off somewhere along the way, posting every now and then. I was part of the 2018 LOTPW culture at one point. Then, a couple months ago, I began being active again, ironically because of the exact reasons I was active when I first joined; I'm at school, I have a chromebook, and I'm bored. When I first went back into LOTPW it felt foreign. Sure, there was people I recognize, like Bre and Lumi, but many faces, like Darron, Simmie, Yakumo, and some others, were all new faces that were just as ingrained in LOTPW culture as those they seemingly replaced (Cat, Bear, Someone, JGC, etc.). Not knowing any of these people, it was intimidating. I literally only pressed on because I had nothing better to do. I already had the benefits going for me of being an established LOTPW poster, but even with that, I was very hesitant about rejoining the thread as an active member. I can only imagine how it must be for many new members nowadays, who don't have prior contacts. It's gotten a tad better, I must admit, and I'm beginning to see some new faces post in LOTPW semi-frequently. I don't want to be rude, but part of it may be able to be chalked up to the demographic being different enough between 3 years ago and now, and the current crowd is nicer to new people than the old crowd. Though I still lament it, and granted, they occasionally post, JGC and Bear, once active LOTPW people, aren't active anymore. Nothing against them, after all, I see them as friends, but they often came off as less welcoming and more serious to new people. A bit gate-keepy, you could say. 

 

That aside, do I think a new LOTPW thread would solve any of these issues? Though I can't find it now, as it was likely merged with OG LOTPW, I once upon a time had made a second LOTPW thread. It got a handful of posts, some people treating it as they've always treated LOTPW, some saying it was pointless to make a second thread, and some trying to "win." The thread was merged within the day, but I still felt the need to mention it. That's at least 2 attempts we are aware of by established forum members to make a LOTPW "sequel," I'll call it. I honestly think that it'd cause some members to leave and some to join, but the second thread would die out in at most a couple of months. So do I think we should make a second LOTPW thread? No, I don't. Now, a shoutbox, however, 😏 

 

I'll keep my argument for a shoutbox short, but I do believe it'd be a good solution-- Tell me, how many of you used cbox? Not many? Figures. I used it a bit, but why did I stop? No one used it. Why did no one use it? It was an external site that felt detached from the main forum. But it was a chat room! The forums don't have that! Except, they do. That's the niche LOTPW fills, isn't it? But wait, we've already established the issues with LOTPW and new-user engagement, so what's the solution? An on-site interface that strikes a middle ground between the quick IRC-, Discord-, and cbox-like instant messengers, and the slower, more thought-out and inclusive LOTPW-esque threads. What would that look like? Maybe, just maybe, a shoutbox is just what we're looking for. And if I'm not mistaken, there's ways to even integrate discord and shoutboxes together, so messages sent on one are sent in the other. This could further serve to bridge the clear gap between the forum and discord communities. Do I personally want to see some sort of integration like that, if a shoutbox were to be implemented? Maybe, but the channel the shoutbox messages were being sent to and from would likely be better off than the #lounge channel in the discord. Or maybe integration not be implemented at all. Who knows? I don't know if a shoutbox is even possible with the current forum software, but I imagine it would be. How did this turn into an ad for a shoutbox again...? Well, damn, I almost feel like this post should go in the thread requesting a shoutbox, but then again, my argument for a shoutbox is directly tied to the argument regarding a second LOTPW thread, soooo... Eh, who knows? Mods, do with this as you please! But please, do consider adding a shoutbox. I think the original thread is from like, 4 or 5 years ago. A lot has changed since then, no? Food for thought. 

Hey there, the name's Bryan. In system Re:Body(In order of the rainbow): 

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What a coincidence, I was actually thinking about this topic earlier! I have mixed feelings about LOTPW and the culture that surrounds it. I don't want to criticize anyone personally and I don't want to ruin everyone's good time. But sometimes I feel like lotpw is like a black hole that sucks everything in. I actually resisted participating early on, but ended up posting because that's where all the activity was. I enjoy talking to people on there, but it seems to devolve back into the same two or three people dominating the conversation. I don't want to make a comment about how welcoming or unwelcoming they are because I don't want to stir up drama. I genuinely like the people here!

 

We did actually have a thread that was kind of a lotpw sequel but it died off because if people are just going to use it like lotpw, why not just use lotpw? If you look on the last few pages you'll see me a lot as I was really trying to push it at the time, but it seemed kind of pointless.

 

I really like the tulpas only chat because it is supposed to be for only tulpas talking to each other. I should try to help bring that back sometime!

 

On a related, general topic: I HATE gatekeeping and go out of my way to talk to new people and make them feel included. 🙂 Yes, a lot of them will disappear after a short time, but many will stay. I've made friends with people just by being nice to them when they were new, and a genuine friendship built from there!

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