Tulpas have free will?

[Sands]

Not that they can't alter all of it, they just can't alter themselves by altering the subconsciousness after they're fully formed, because even if they did, they would go either to a cycle of personality changes or to a final personality that would never change because likes the way it is, anyway, them they could not alter themselves anymore, and definitely not what they like, and thus after a tulpa is finally formed she/he can't change what she/he likes, therefore he doesn't have free will as he's obligated to follow what he likes.

 

Where do you pull shit like this? Also tulpa =/= subconscious, subconscious seems to be just a catch-all for everything else. I am not the subconscious, tupper is not the subconscious, but if it is affecting someone, it affects both of us.

 

Anyways no, they don't blindly follow things just because you told them to. Sure, Roswell might've been polite because I told him to be polite, so that's where he starts it off. But he has been talking to people and has noticed being polite is good. Everyone likes it when he's polite and he doesn't hurt anyone. However, it doesn't mean he doesn't have thoughts of not being polite to someone. Some people he finds annoying assholes who he would just like to tell to shut up. But he doesn't. Here you might go aha! He's following the trait you give him and he can't go against! Well, no. He could. He decides not to, because even though he doesn't like that person, he doesn't want to hurt his feelings or seem like an asshole himself. He can give reasons why to act like how he decides to act, not just blindly follow something someone told him. His feelings play a big part in what he wants to do and he's a big softie.

 

A tulpa grows just like us. They learn from the world, they learn from the people they talk to. Perhaps they are born with a personality you gave them, but they will learn from around them. They understand how they should behave around people and they will rationalize. Most of the tuppers here are very young and they haven't had the chance to change too much because you know, they haven't been alive for very long when compared to us.

 

While it wasn't a trait I gave him, early on Roswell was very slow. He didn't get jokes or sarcasm or innuendos. He was very confused by them all and was then made fun of. But he kept socializing with people and he started learning. He catches them now because he has learned to understand and doesn't make fun of the tulpas who still have yet to understand them. He was made fun of too and it didn't feel good, so he would rather try to explain or tell others to behave, if they attack someone for their lack of knowledge.

 

He has been afraid to be alone. It's not exactly nice to go visit a tupper who you think is fine only for them to be feeling miserable. Just because you were gone for a little longer than you usually are. But you know, we talked about that and I explained why there is no reason to be afraid or even feel alone. Shit like that. And what do you know, these days he can be alone and sometimes even wants to, so he can do his own things. He doesn't mind it if I have to do something and not pay attention to him. He has learned to cope with it and find things to do himself.

 

New likes or dislikes can always be formed. Old ones can change. I have seen it happen, have you seen it not happen? What do you base all this on? Never even heard of what you are talking about.

 

My tulpa does not have free will as I can control it.

 

If a tulpa reaches a point where a host cannot control them, then maybe they have free will. But until that point, a host can stop them and puppet the tulpa's body to make it do what the host wants. How much control a Tulpa has and how much control a host has I would say depends on the individuals.

 

You can puppet them, they can puppet you, it's just nicer not to.

[Pinkamena]

You can puppet them, they can puppet you, it's just nicer not to.

 

I know you can puppet them against their will, But can they do the same to you? That is what interests me.

 

I haven't heard of a case of it happening. I had older personality only tulpas a few years ago try it. But I was able to stop them.

[Sands]

Hey, they know how awful it can be, so I doubt you will see them doing it to you against your will. Unless they are assholes. It's pretty hard to puppet by accident so that doesn't happen either.

 

However, they can. You can ask them to if you really want to try. If you want to resist, you most likely can, just like they could. Or neither of us is very good at puppeting, that's possible too I guess.

[Pinkamena]

Hey, they know how awful it can be, so I doubt you will see them doing it to you against your will. Unless they are assholes. It's pretty hard to puppet by accident so that doesn't happen either.

 

However, they can. You can ask them to if you really want to try. If you want to resist, you most likely can, just like they could. Or neither of us is very good at puppeting, that's possible too I guess.

 

Are you sure its not just because the host allowed the tulpa to learn to possess them first? What if the host never allowed or trained this with the tulpa?

 

A tulpa does not have a choice in you learning to control their body as it is something you do to allow them to move. But a human doesn't need that.

[Sands]

By puppeting I mean the imaginary body of myself in my head, just like I would puppet their imaginary body.

[SSaint]

But even then, they are already programmed (or being programmed) to follow given traits and likes/dislikes, even if you would like to think that she has free will to choose her personality (I'm not talking directly to you here, but to people who think this), she will just decide for the personality that appears to be better on the subconscious perspective, following it, so it either follow the subconscious or the conscious, not having free will to choose herself, after, they can't have free will as they are stuck by what they like/dislike. The closest to free will a tulpa could have would be giving her a trait that she isn't rational and doesn't always follow what she likes, still, she would be following the trait one gave her.

People are shaped by genetics and their own experiences. They do not sit down on a day-to-day basis and say, "I want to have such-and-such personality," free of all bias that they have built up over their life. To say that a tulpa would need to be able to do that in order to have as much free will as a person is preposterous.

 

Unless you are arguing that people also do not have free will or w/e.

[KruegerMeister]

Sorry for the necro.

 

 

I mean, most people here seem to believe that no host can actually be denied the right to return to his body, but as long as the brain is fooled into thinking that the tulpa is the actual owner (and obviously tulpas have the ability do fool the brain, since once they're imposed they're hallucinations and once they're vocal they're audible hallucinations), then the tulpa could have control over the owner of the body, of course, this would only happen if the host was stupid enough, either too naive or too young (a child would probably be the perfect target for a malificient tulpa).

 

How could you say that you're not a tulpa and you dissipated your host and can't remember? Is there any way to answer that other than saying that you can do things you don't want to? You could ask "Why would it matter?", but well, as you probably know, tulpas don't actually die, just fade into the unconscious, and can be revived, so the same should happen to the original host of the body possessed by a tulpa, if I were to discover I'm a tulpa, I would run like hell to search my actual host on the subconscious, I mean, I truly wouldn't have the right to kick him out. And it would be interesting to know what the original owner would look like.

 

Why would a tulpa desire to fool the owner, and thus deprive themselves of the godlike power they have in their wonderland? [That's a logical fallacy. You're assuming that the tulpa would have a wonderland.] How would you know if you were a tulpa, or that your "host" is genuine and not a fabrication you made up for whatever reason? What would be the purpose of un-dissipating him/her? What if he/she turned out to be a massive control freak or something equally as bad who was better left dissipated?

 

Also, I created my first tulpa, and then wrote a short play about her. One of the people I'd shared the play with described her as "sassy", a trait which I hadn't given her. I gained a second tulpa through hypnosis intended to make me more studious, and he jokes around a lot (which wasn't part of the hypnosis). That seems to imply free will to me. To the best of my knowledge, people don't really understand the subconscious. Even if a tulpa's free will is an illusion, the illusion can be so complex that it's virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.

[ThatFellowWithTheScarf]

Well, the thing is tulpas are very relaxed and it's also in their nature to love their hosts unconditionally, even in THAT way. I'm having a sort of conflict with that now. Prince says he'd be fine with it but it seems so weird to love a thoughtform. Anyways, the point is, Tulpæ do have free will, and by their own free will they don't give a fuck. I respect Prince too much to ever assume control of him. And as for human free will, I think most people only oppress themselves and their peers with these "truths" in life we only make true by believing them. Of course there's always instinct, but instinct isnt forced upon you.

[fennecfoxx]

Well, the thing is tulpas are very relaxed and it's also in their nature to love their hosts unconditionally, even in THAT way. ... Tulpæ do have free will, and by their own free will they don't give a fuck.

 

That really depends on the tulpa and their personality, you know. Yeah, most tulpae tend to care for their hosts a lot, but that isn't always the case, and the rest of what you said isn't even remotely close to universal. I don't even know where you got the idea that "tulpas are very relaxed", besides assuming that you're generalizing your own experiences here; I've seen tons of tulpae who are counterexamples to that.

[Guest amber5885]

Yeah when Toby first became vocal we actually fought so badly I almost got rid of him. It took a lot of time for him to finally calm down.