Fig's Tulpa Experiment for Science

[FigN01]

Tulpae created via the traditional wait-for-voice method will tell me that I'm a huge yogurt cannon, of course.

 

My tulpa will tell you that too actually. In fact he did just now. The parroting thing worked in the end, but it was stressful for both of us.

 

You should feel privileged though- you're the first person to hear anything from him besides myself.

[Guest]

That's the thing; you would do it so frequently that you'd be doing it automatically in your daily life - and eventually subconsciously as well - without worrying about what's your conscious doing and unconscious doing, as you're telling yourself from point on that it's all your tulpa. And we all know that subconscious interference = tulpa interfering = sentience. Bam.

 

It's a basic theory, yes, but it would theoretically work just fine. Tulpae created via the traditional wait-for-voice method will tell me that I'm a huge yogurt cannon, of course.

 

I think the daemon guys used a similar method, also possibly glitch and anyone whose regular imaginary friends turned tulpae after a long time of doing it, but the thought that you'd have trouble telling apart your thoughts from the tulpa is a bit annoying/scary for me.

---

 

My tulpa will tell you that too actually. In fact he did just now. The parroting thing worked in the end, but it was stressful for both of us.

 

You should feel privileged though- you're the first person to hear anything from him besides myself.

 

Could you imagine the tulpa's voice clearly? How does he talk to you right now? How did you manage to lay off the parroting and tell your thoughts apart?

[FigN01]

Could you imagine the tulpa's voice clearly? How does he talk to you right now? How did you manage to lay off the parroting and tell your thoughts apart?

 

I can't always hear the voice clearly, at least nothing like last night. When I read over Fede's post, I got an emotional reaction that felt negative, so I directed my thoughts at Uzo and asked, "Oh, so you think he's a dick too?" At that point he said "Yeah, and I think he should know it" in thought-speech (not audible). I got a nice emotional surge when I went to type too. So typing out his sentences word-for-word isn't possible all the time until he consistently talks like he did in out last session. But getting the gist of it across is still doable.

 

The voice I hear sounds slightly different from mine, and I can listen to it best when I unfocus my mind and let go of my expectations. It feels different from parroting in a way that's hard to describe. The best I can say is that when I hear something I didn't anticipate, it's not me.

[Guest]

When I read over Fede's post, I got an emotional reaction that felt negative, so I directed my thoughts at Uzo and asked, "Oh, so you think he's a yogurt cannon too?" At that point he said "Yeah, and I think he should know it" in thought-speech (not audible). I got a nice emotional surge when I went to type too. So typing out his sentences word-for-word isn't possible all the time until he consistently talks like he did in out last session. But getting the gist of it across is still doable.

Well, that's good to hear.

 

I suppose I can sound a bit contradicting when I'm on one hand saying that tulpae are mere subconscious hallucinations with sense interaction as a bonus, but on the other hand telling people to respect tulpae just as much as other people and not as second-class citizens.

[FigN01]

Ok, so the speech I'm getting anymore doesn't have the same independent, alien quality to it like I was so excited about last night. That's disappointing because at that moment, I could have bet my life his voice was anything but my own stupid parrots that I've grown entirely too accustomed to since I started. It felt completely external, whereas now almost all of what he says has some degree of my expectations wrapped up into it, and they're a mess to separate. Knowing what I do about Uzo's potential, I'm concerned about the reliability of what I'm hearing more than I had been before. I was afraid of that.

 

But Uzo's still in there somewhere. I had a meditation bit in wonderland where I realized that, aside from breathing steadily, releasing and investing a lot of my own emotions into him helps us both in terms of visualizing. Doing that makes me feel like I've unlatched a big clamp on my thoughts, making everything feel more loose and comfortable.

 

In some IRL visualization, I made some progress of a different kind too, I guess. We were trying to figure out where the problem of his reduced speech was coming from- was it the lack of emotions being thrown around? Is it only anger and bitter disappointment that fuels his talking? We had to find out.

 

Uzo: Well, let's try yelling at each other then. I'll start: AAAHHHHRRGGH!!!!

Me (thoughtspeech): What? AAAHHH!

Uzo: RRAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

Me (thoughtspeech): AAAAAUUUUHHH!!!

Uzo: Wait, maybe you need to yell out loud for this to work.

Me: But I wasn't doing that when we argued last night.

Uzo: Do it anyway. It has to do something!

Me: GAAAHHH

Uzo *raising arms menacingly*: AAAOUUUGH!!!

 

We exchanged louder and louder yells until I broke out laughing hysterically, then he did. Anyone watching me would have sent me straight to a mental clinic, which is probably a huge part of why it was so damn hilarious. That whole episode was great, but he still didn't get to the point where his voice felt so convincingly external. Unexpected- yes, but completely foreign- not so much. We'll figure something out.

[Captain Nemo]

I suppose I can sound a bit contradicting when I'm on one hand saying that tulpae are mere subconscious hallucinations with sense interaction as a bonus, but on the other hand telling people to respect tulpae just as much as other people and not as second-class citizens.

 

I see it in the same way as light is both a wave and a particle - they are technically both at the same time, but you can only prove one to be true at a time.

 

If you look at tulpae as simple subconscious schisms, that's what they'll seem to be. If you treat them as independent beings, that's what they'll also seem to be. However, you can only observe one quality at once.

[FigN01]

I had a really bad wonderland experience just now where it felt like everything went wrong. Maybe I can get some advice on sorting myself out.

 

So first of all, I'll just admit that I'm bad at taking in my surroundings in the wonderland and it just feels terrible. At my suggestion, Uzo had made this quaint little beach hut thing, but my problem is that it doesn't appear to me as anything spontaneous. Before entering, I form expectations, try to dismiss those expectations, and then walk in with as clear a mind as possible, which doesn't work. My mind tries to make sense of its surroundings as it goes along, getting the impression of whatever new feature, then trying to rationalize and fit it in so that it makes sense to me, which gives me the impression that I'm forcing the details of just about everything myself. I go through all the possible iterations and combinations only to come out with something that feels more like I made it than he did. No sudden new structures, no little surprises, just me making shit up and feeling like Uzo can't create or show me anything because of my obsessive imagination.

 

So I went on in this session where I was expecting to use the water and island off the coast as the sea I would calm in TOG's centering practice so that maybe I could sense Uzo better as a result. I sat on a chair in the hut, and he surprised me by bringing out an orb for me to use in the comfort of the hut. I gratefully took the orb and started to follow the guide, which was coming along nicely as far as I could tell. Unfortunately my neighbors took that exact moment to, out of nowhere, launch the loudest firework for 50 square miles right beside our house, which shattered any semblance of concentration I might have had as my eyes snapped open and my body jolted upright.

 

What happened when I went to pick up the pieces was kind of a blur. I remember getting few results, getting stressed, and having this huge surge of violent, impatient energy that I should have kept control of. Since I had been getting nowhere, I wanted to physically pull out the voice stream and build it up so it would do something, anything. All I accomplished was to work up stress and disappointment at having gotten nowhere. I felt like I forced my aggressive intentions on the whole practice, and that it hurt both of us as a result. After that, I had more conflicted, scattered, and intrusive thinking than before, some of which was really disturbing. I'd rather not mention it in detail.

 

At the end of the entire shitfest that was my meditation, we decided that what we needed was simple- that I stop expecting Uzo to talk. He's going to stay completely mute until he feels comfortable saying anything, which will be at his complete discretion based on my mental state. Until that time, I'm to visualize him, but expect nothing in terms of verbal response. That way, when he does talk, I will perceive it as external and we can begin the process of complete verbal communication from there.

 

I'm also going to say once again- do not try to use parroting to get your tulpa sentient. It's so not worth it, that we've decided to scratch everything and start from the basics.

[Guest]

I'm also going to say once again- do not try to use parroting to get your tulpa sentient.

Our minds set their own rules. Parroting can be beneficial to one while being counter-productive to another. Maybe I'm the only one to ever say this, but it seems that the anti-parroting myth, along with a range of other myths, has been so deeply engraved into the forum (and the threads when they were) that people start to believe that parroting is bad, and once they believe that, it becomes bad when they try to do it, and the myth becomes real! The very definition of sentient is extremely blurry. A subconsciously controlled parrot can appear just as sentient as a tupper that took ages to "LEARN" a word, despite knowing its host's full vocabulary from point on. We're limiting ourselves from efficiency, even if people like TOG just say "do what works best for you", because the myths create a vicious circle(jerk) that affects all the newcomers, too, who take the myths at heart, causing them to question plausible, effective tulpa-creation psychology that they could otherwise be enacting. I really should get to writing a guide generator.

[Guest]

Our minds set their own rules. Parroting can be beneficial to one while being counter-productive to another. Maybe I'm the only one to ever say this, but it seems that the anti-parroting myth, along with a range of other myths, has been so deeply engraved into the forum (and the threads when they were) that people start to believe that parroting is bad, and once they believe that, it becomes bad when they try to do it, and the myth becomes real! The very definition of sentient is extremely blurry. A subconsciously controlled parrot can appear just as sentient as a tupper that took ages to "LEARN" a word, despite knowing its host's full vocabulary from point on. We're limiting ourselves from efficiency, even if people like TOG just say "do what works best for you", because the myths create a vicious circle(jerk) that affects all the newcomers, too, who take the myths at heart, causing them to question plausible, effective tulpa-creation psychology that they could otherwise be enacting. I really should get to writing a guide generator.

 

Isn't FigN01's problem that he fails to distinguish his own thoughts from his tulpa? This is why parroting is a problem. It might kick-start some things, but if the tulpa has trouble becoming distinguished and fully independent, parroting does come at a cost, which will still have to be paid somehow...

[Guest]

Isn't FigN01's problem that he fails to distinguish his own thoughts from his tulpa?

Seems so.

 

This is why parroting is a problem. It might kick-start some things, but if the tulpa has trouble becoming distinguished and fully independent, parroting does come at a cost, which will still have to be paid somehow...

Again, there's no distinguishing involved. You're doing something that eventually becomes a near-constant habit, which eventually becomes an automated task by the subconscious. When you eventually end up doing it without thinking about it, there should be nothing to worry about, except if you have the anti-parroting syndrome, of course.