Short creation times

[Purlox]

2) Parroting: when the host can no longer actually parrot their tulpa. That is, when the tulpa itself can no longer be manipulated to the host's trivial will. This, again, shows separation of the tulpa from the host.

Is this just a guess or is it actually based on something?

 

As for whether or not a tulpa is sentient; solipsism is helpful here.

Other people appear sentient, but it cannot be verified. Despite this we treat humans as sentient anyway.

Given this precedent, it would make sense to treat tulpas as sentient, since whenever something perfectly imitates sentience then we assume it is so.

I fully agree.

 

Honestly, the only reason I can't accept it is because it pisses me off.

 

Fede told I'm just jealous about their speed. Which he's right. I'm downright angered by it. That is why it is so hard to digest these claims and keep them down. It's like trying to eat a tube of toothpaste.

 

It's also hard to accept because it's not just a few new people. It's every single fucking new person.

If it makes you jealous and you have don't have any actual evidence to say that they don't actually have a sentient tulpa, then don't say it as you will only hurt them.

 

It does beg the question, though;

why exactly were creation times so long in the first place?

If 3 day tulpas are possible and happening now, then what has changed to make it happen?

Before you say that it's the whole thing about treating as sentient from the beginning, remember that this practice has been around for at least 6 months.

And why are people who were previously slower not accelerating now?

There have been many reasons posted already and I don't feel like reiterating them, so I'll just add something to them. Treating as sentient from the begging is a factor as it wasn't believed in when it was written down as much as it is right now.

 

It can be hard to remove already created artificial mind blocks.

[waffles]

Is this just a guess or is it actually based on something?

Call it an educated guess.

 

There have been many reasons posted already and I don't feel like reiterating them, so I'll just add something to them. Treating as sentient from the begging is a factor as it wasn't believed in when it was written down as much as it is right now.

 

It can be hard to remove already created artificial mind blocks.

 

I'm still not sure about that. When you're new to something you believe most things that are written in the guides. I remember reading that short guide and taking it seriously; as Lucid mentioned, the method was common for a lon time before.

 

If the only block is thinking that something isn't possible, then it should be gone by the time you accept that it is.

[Purlox]

I'm still not sure about that. When you're new to something you believe most things that are written in the guides. I remember reading that short guide and taking it seriously; as Lucid mentioned, the method was common for a lon time before.

1) Not everyone does actually believe everything they read in the guides. E.g. When I came to the site, I took Dane's guide with grain of salt as the phenomenon is relatively new and so they probably weren't able to investigate it much to know what they are saying in the guide for sure and because I often find that estimates of time aren't very accurate anywhere.

2) The "sentience from the start" are more widespread now. Why? You could have read it from Pleeb already, but I'll say it again. When a new member comes in, they will read what is a tulpa, the guides and other stuff on the site. After they do that, they often go to the forums and register there. When they register themselves, they find out they need to wait 3 days until their account is activated, so they will go either read more information, browse the forums or go to the IRC chat. Many newcomers actually come to the IRC chat (at least from my experience) after creating a new account. Why does that matter so much? Because after they get greeted by others, they will also be said what parts of the Dane's guide are bad, why they are bad, what works for people to speed up progress (including the "tulpa is sentient from the start), help them answer any questions they have etc.

 

I would argue with Lucid about that as I have never seen people saying "your tulpa is sentient from the start" when I came in here.

 

If the only block is thinking that something isn't possible, then it should be gone by the time you accept that it is.

There are more mind blocks then that. There is the mind block of "Anyone who is (this) fast doesn't have a legitimate tulpa", which will make your progress slow as you believe otherwise it wouldn't be legitimate and in case you actually are that fast, you will just dismiss it or think it's something else. Then you have the seeds of doubt that Dane sow in his guide by writing "If you don't do X (correctly), then you will get a servitor". There are still many old members here that get doubt attacks even though they have spent months with their tulpa.

[Guest Anonymous]

But this attitude of accepting everything everyone says as fact, and believing every single movement, emotion, or mental thought comes from you tulpa is not only toxic, but is the largest reason why people believe their puppets are real tulpae. This use of constant discretion for fear of hurting someone's progress not only enables people to believe their puppets are tulpae, but encourages it, which inadvertently hurts their progress more than if they were discouraged. I'm not saying we need to discourage people from accepting potential responses, but rather we need to use basic logic and reason to recognize what is and isn't feasible. And having people with no substantial ability claiming to have fully created tulpae upwards of five to ten times faster than the average person is both illogical and unreasonable.

 

Regardless of all of this, your entire argument for believing it's possible is based on something a few people on the internet have told you. It is literally the exact opposite of logical to believe something as completely true based on someone's unfounded claim.

 

You are requesting logic where pathos reigns. I think we could all make use of a general logic thread. You suggest logic often, but where does one start?

Why are we so concerned about what is toxic? And how do we know with some certainty that it is that bad? If you have a puppet that you are convinced isn't you, and it walks the walks and talks the talks like a tulpa does, is there a difference? Even if it never becomes a tulpa, can we not say, mission accomplished, same difference?

2) Parroting: when the host can no longer actually parrot their tulpa. That is, when the tulpa itself can no longer be manipulated to the host's trivial will. This, again, shows separation of the tulpa from the host.

Helpful for keeping those random unwanted thoughts from happening to your tulpa, unless, they get those too. By this definition, I may never be done, and that is fine.

 

People said:

solipsism

I sure hope not. If I am a brain in a jar with no way of knowing anything outside of it, that jar had better have everything in it. I would like to know all if at all possible.

[CyberD]

I'm going to side with waffles on the issue of guides. Most new members seem to take the guides seriously. Whether you believe what is said or not the guides will still influence your expectations, creating these artificial mind blocks.

 

I think sentience from the start is the way to go but only if you aren't looking for it. Searching for and measuring the sentience of a tulpa would probably create more of these artificial mind blocks. I suspect the less vocal the tulpa the worse the blocks would be.

 

Speaking from my own experience. I created my tulpa independently from this site and it's guides. I wasn't looking for sentience, I didn't even consider it. That said I feel my tulpa was sentient very early on. Since I used a parrroting type method he was vocal from the very beginning. It was only a few hours before I became detached enough to consider some of his replies to be his own. At that point, by some measures of sentience (since we all seem to measure it differently) my tulpa would have been sentient.

Since I wasn't looking for sentience my tulpa was free to develop on his own without being influenced by expectations or the relative success of others.

[Riku Aotsuki]

I agree with those saying dreamers have an easier time... Kai was sentient on day one, and talking by the end of the first week. He's nowhere near imposed yet, but there's no way I'm puppeting or parroting him, not at this point. He may not talk constantly, but he's also a quieter personality, if occasionally snide. Kai's also getting irate at the amount of comments along the lines of "Most of them are exaggerating" or "the tulpae are probably just puppets." Honestly, different times for different people. I'm sure you're familiar with the warning against expected times; Expecting 10 hours for personality alone or something similar HINDERS progress.

[Purlox]

I'm going to side with waffles on the issue of guides. Most new members seem to take the guides seriously. Whether you believe what is said or not the guides will still influence your expectations, creating these artificial mind blocks.

The newcomers that actually take the guides completely seriously by not noticing or ignoring the warnings are very often told in the IRC channel that they should take them with grain of salt. It's true though that most people still will be influenced by what they read even if they don't actually believe it, so even then it has some effect, but the effect is very small compared to the one caused by believing it fully.

 

I think sentience from the start is the way to go but only if you aren't looking for it. Searching for and measuring the sentience of a tulpa would probably create more of these artificial mind blocks. I suspect the less vocal the tulpa the worse the blocks would be.

Could you explain your logic here?