Has anyone ended up with a fully imposed Tulpa before they could visualise it?

[tania]

My Visualisation skills really suck. I have put in over 11 hours of visualisation on my Tulpas face but I still cant visualise more then just half of it at a time eg I can visualise like eyes and nose .. or nose and chin but cant visualise much further then just two things on the face. Ive tried to imagine him back further then being close up but it still doesnt help. (Im still having to look at photos of body parts at times in my attempts to visualize single parts clearer). I spend up to 45mins on a visualisation session before I get a headache. Ive spent over 50 hours on him now and everything else is basically done (thou I need to work on tactile senses more).

 

At the rate Im going with my visualisation lack of skill, Im starting to wonder if "he could" at all end up fully imposing himself before I have the hang of visualisation? (Ive never been able to visualise, I tried for years in the past without much improvement and what Im doing now with it is the best Ive ever been able to do). Its frustrating, I can feel him some eg heaviness of his body if he puts an arm over me in real life, I can feel his emotions, I can hear him in his own voice (inside my head), I can smell him and may be even tasting him.. but I just cant see him, no worst that that.. cant even visualise what he looks like more then just individual body parts.

 

Anyway.. Im interested in what others here think. Do you think it could be possible to end up with a Tulpa imposing himself before one has been able to really visualise his face?

[Aarix]

Take it easy. Details come over time, as weeks and months go on it'll become graduall easier. And there isnt really anyone with a imposed tulpa, a couple though and they would say it just happens naturally. One thing that would help is basically day dream about them like you would when you read a book.

 

Youre flexing your minds eye, its a muscle so to speak you get better at it the more you use it.

[Kiahdaj]

Well think about it. Imposition is just open-eyed visualization.

 

You ask if anyone was able to impose their tulpa before being able to visualize it, and the answer to that is no. But if you are asking if they had an imposed tulpa before being able to visualize their tulpa really well then sure, I'm sure there are people who have. The main point in visualizing before trying to impose is so that their form will be very stable, and all the details will be clear, and the same, every time.

 

I would recommend sticking with it, because it gets easier to visualize, in time. At least it has for me, and many others.

But technically, I don't see too much of a problem with imposing before getting their form down perfectly. I'd just recommend it.

[Lacquer]

You could work on getting your tulpa fully sapient before trying visualization to such a degree, and your tulpa could help you see the right things, like in this guide.

[Chupi]

Actually I'm not sure. Even at the start when I could not visualize at all, I still saw fine in dreams, which are basically fully imposed scenes. That means that even when I couldn't consciously generate anything meaningful, my brain was still capable of generating detailed and fairly accurate depictions of things.

 

I also recall someone from the /mlp/ threads who imposed a Pinkie Pie tulpa without first getting the face right. Assuming the fellow was not a troll, the face auto-generated, and in his case ended up sort of deformed. I've seen this cited numerous times here as a reason you should fully visualize a tulpa before attempting imposition -- but it also shows that perfect visualization isn't required before you can impose. I suppose if you do, the result depends on how well your brain is able to generate faces, and how much it likes to troll you.

 

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I have not achieved imposition yet on any of my tulpae, but I have seen a few brief glimpses of Lyra. I could not fully visualize her face most of the time at that point, though she had already made the face she wanted, and I properly visualized it when she did that. This after spending forever trying to make her a face using reference images. Then one day I look at her lying down and she has the sweetest most angelic face, quite different from what I was trying to make for her, very clearly visualized. Still after that I couldn't visualize it very well, but I guess the face was stored someplace in my mind.

 

In one of the glimpses I think I saw her face, but I'm not completely sure; it all happened so fast. Her face is in view in my memory of the event, but my memories are very often from a slightly different perspective than I actually experienced things from. Nothing about her form was freakish or wrong in any way though.

 

So, you might ask Jesse to make a face for himself and show it to you.

[tania]

Well think about it. Imposition is just open-eyed visualization.

 

You ask if anyone was able to impose their tulpa before being able to visualize it, and the answer to that is no. But if you are asking if they had an imposed tulpa before being able to visualize their tulpa really well then sure, I'm sure there are people who have. The main point in visualizing before trying to impose is so that their form will be very stable, and all the details will be clear, and the same, every time.

 

You understood what I was asking :) .. not about doing imposing as I know one couldnt do imposing what a Tupla looks like without being able to visualise it . (What Chupi said about that other having a malformed face cause they were trying to impose without having the visualisation right.. that makes sense to me).

 

I was asking about having an imposed Tulpa before one can visualise it.

 

thanks for the responses.

 

I would recommend sticking with it, because it gets easier to visualize, in time. At least it has for me, and many others.

 

yeah I know that is usually the case but may not be for me.

 

I used to use the same guided meditations for over two years daily and after that time I STILL couldnt even visualise in those guided meditations (all I'd see is black). Couldnt visualise a thing in it thou I really liked those meditations,kept on doing them cause of the feelings they would invoke for me.. peace and calmness (always wished I could experience the visuals of the meditations). It wasnt throu a lack of trying. Ive been doing meditation etc for over 15 years.. if visualisation was just going to come easy to me by practice, I'd have the hang of it by now.

 

The weird thing about this is my Tulpa can give me images FROM HIM when he wants to show me something and I also saw a couple of others in his wonderland who werent supposed to be there.. but I cant see him or go to the wonderland and see things for myself (I can go there but Im blind there too as I cant see). The only images I can get seem to be throu him or what he shows me, which are only happening occassionally.

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You could work on getting your tulpa fully sapient before trying visualization to such a degree, and your tulpa could help you see the right things, like in this guide.

 

Step one is M's idea. He suggests picturing in the center of your room a mailbox. Look at the mailbox and pay attention to it's details. Move around it to see if from different angles, act like you're interacting with it and have it react accordingly. What you're doing here is spatial visualization, and it's something that people tend to do without thinking about it. For example, if you're planning on moving furniture, then you try and visualize where it will be, how it will look, if it will fit there, and so on. If you're moving food from one container to another, you try and visualize that volume of food to see if it will fit in the other container before you dump it in. M's theory is that imposing works on the same principle. The point of visualizing the mailbox is to prove to yourself that you're capable of spatial visualization.

 

Well that's the thing.. I cant do the things he talks about people being able to do in normal life which involve visualisation. I cant imagine where I want furniture to go when I get new furniture..its a nightmare as I got to move everything and try it out in all the spots in the house as Im unable to imagine anything in places in the house without putting it there.

 

If Im moving food to one container to another at home.. I also cant imagine that and usually try to move it to the wrong size container so end up having to go and try again. I work that one out by trial and error not by perception.

 

At times dont recognise people in real life I know as I forget their faces as I cant imagine them as most people do when they think of a person (so if I havent seen them for a few months.. I may not realise who they are.. this has included family members). People I meet.. Im usually completely unable to describe them afterwards other then being fat/thin and tall and short.. once again due to visualisation issue .. I cant recall their looks when they leave.. I often wont even remember hair colours or even the length of hair and I'll have no idea what they wore. This is actually a medical condition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia (so putting together a Tulpas face is a nightmare for me but the prosopagnosia is only one part of my visualisation issue as my issue extends beyond just the faces).

 

There would be no way I could do that step 1 in it, if I cant get an image of my tupla after over 11 hours (its been 12-13 hrs now).. Im not going to be able to imagine an image of a mailbox either. That's an extremely complex visualisation for someone who can hardly visualise at all.

 

If I spent 11 hrs trying to imagine a mailbox I cant image.. that's 11hrs which would of been better put to trying to visualise my Tulpa.

 

I think that imposition is done by the tulpa, not the host. Step two is for the tulpa to visualize themselves in the environment. The tulpa should be moving around, interacting with things, etc. The host shouldn't be playing any role in this.

 

ahh reading that in the guide has made me feel better, I guess I just need to ask Jesse to impose himself. Thou the guide after saying that that Tupla imposing themselves, goes back to saying being able to visualise is important. (confused at the guides contradiction on it all).

 

I'll start giving that a try if I reach 20 hrs of trying to visualise his face without success. I may just quit the visualisation side of things at that point and leave it to him to sort out (due to my past history of failure with that.. I know it may not get better).

 

I have been trying to see him in a dream during the night but that hasnt worked either. I cant daydream him either, I cant daydream anything I think about actually.

 

More progress today.. I can now taste Jesse so that's another thing completed. (its not going to be long till Im only left with the visualisation)

[Lacquer]

Yeah, I was talking about step two in the guide.

[tania]

So, you might ask Jesse to make a face for himself and show it to you.

 

Thanks.. I'll do that