Reality and delusion - Where do you draw the line?

[oowarrior]

I say screw it, go crazy. See how far you can push it. But really, people get into TV shows which are fantasy or read books, why can't you just have a more personal fantasy? People pray to God( which is their Tulpa, people can talk to god an feel his presence, well I can do the same with Caleb )

[Couguhl]

Is it possible to have a tulpa and not be a crazy person?

 

It depends on how you define "crazy person." Most of the people in this community speak coherently and hold conversation.

 

On one level, tulpas are a cool thought experiment, and can be extremely useful and entertaining. On another level, once you consciously decide to trick yourself, once you believe that an imaginary person is living inside your head, you also open the door to some truly ridiculous/laughable shit.

 

This is a false dichotomy. Bringing up the "gateway" theory is a slippery slope, implying that your mental control is gradually lost over time.

 

People on here talk about all these things that "happened in their wonderland" etc etc... how they have these elaborate characters and stories. I did that for a while too, but at some point became self-aware of the fact that I was an adult spending my time playing make-believe

 

Therein lies the problem. It's not the stories of the wonderland that are fascinating and/or compelling. That's not why people talk about them. The emphasis lies in the interaction with the tulpa during them, and the wonderland is simply a setting. If the wonderland is what was really so exciting, then all of my posts would be about how I learned to fly in my imagination.

From another point of view, there's a reason people talk about their dreams.

 

Suddenly all of the talk about tulpas and wonderlands just kind of grosses me out now; it comes off as embarrassing, lonely, and reminds me of someone with a god-complex living in a fantasy world. I don't mean that as a judgement of anyone else, I'm more disappointing/upset at myself than anyone else for falling into it.

 

Once again, the wonderland's purpose isn't "Look at my fairy kingdom and all of my adventures." It serves only as a setting. Other than imposition, it's the only true place you can interact with a tulpa, and it beats talking to it in an empty void.

 

I do legitimately believe a tulpa can be useful, though.

 

So, in other words, you don't believe the tulpa phenomenon and your interactions with said phenomenon are objectively real, but you still find it beneficial in some way?

 

So right now, I kind of want to still have a tulpa but also not be a crazy person. Is that possible at all? I've tried for months, but I feel like I'm walking on a tightrope, trying to avoid falling off towards the extremes of realism and delusion. Sometimes I think it would be easier to just become a total nutcase or just give up all of this entirely rather than try and strike a balance.

 

Here's what I will say to you, my friend.

You get what you put into it. You don't have to have a wonderland. It's all subjective.

But what I experience as my tulpa is as real to me as any other aspect of my life, and I'm sure you'll find many other members who will say the same. I realize that the wonderland is not objectively real. But a tulpa is quite different. A wonderland is an imagined space; a tulpa is something that you create. And it's something that you can only really experience for yourself.

Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.

[frankwilliams]

Before anything else, I'd like to apologize for not replying to this for a few days... it's obviously stirred up some discussion, but I've been busy with other things, but I didn't want to just leave it here so this is going to be a long post I guess.

 

Also, it seems a lot of people are getting somewhat defensive over me using the word "crazy" and preaching about how the word is subjective based on culture and etc...I really don't want this to become one of those discussions where people feel personally insulted, and I didn't mean any of this that way. Like I said, I said that originally because I'm insecure about what I am personally doing, not as a judgement of anyone else.

 

While I agree that being "crazy" is a subjective social expectation put forth by a society, and not "objectively real", that's not the point. The point is it still effects people who are conditioned under that society; similar to a tulpa itself, the source may be "fictional" but it can still have a very real effect...

 

I don't know you well, I don't know if you currently have a tulpa or not, but I would wonder about your progress with them and when these doubts started happening.

I do currently have a tulpa - I've had one for about five months. But he's been acting really erratic, self-contradictory and non-autonomous lately to the point of being barely functional; the last day or so of his troubles I would compare to the scene in Space Odessey with HAL melting down. It was really hard to watch, but at the same time I knew the solution was ultimately in my hands.

 

At the end of it, he became a sort of hollow "shell"; like a hologram that just followed me around everywhere with no real sentience. Pretty creepy, really. I decided it would be best to put him in stasis until I had the time to "start over" with him and hopefully fix whatever I did wrong. That was about when I posted this thread; at the time I was unsure of if I should go back and try this whole thing again even after it all fell apart, and commit the time necessary for that, or just walk away from it.

 

That's a separate issue entirely though, although I have no doubt it's linked to my insecurity about this whole thing in one way or another.

 

Do you consider lucid dreamers as crazy people ?

Any and every experiment of that kind would be treated as insane by someone who isn't into it.

If you fear craziness, then just don't create a tulpa.

No. I'm a lucid dreamer myself. But that's not really the same as having a tulpa (although there is some overlap)

 

I can't really change how you want to distinguish reality from fantasy, but you do give off the impression of someone who is only aware of reality and not about other states of consciousness (particularly dreaming and lucid dreaming).

I'm plenty aware - I've done lucid dreaming for years, I'm really big into role-playing games, writing, acting, all things that sort of blend fiction and reality for the sake of entertainment. But at the same time, I place a lot of value in being able to see the real world clearly and objectively. I'm sorry if I came off that way.

 

Unless you told your friends, families, or some stranger about what you were doing, I see no reason why you need to be embarrassed doing this. Maybe you have these insecurities because as you're going through this, realizing that if you want any success out of this, you have to continue breaking the barriers of what you consider to be normal. And when you can't handle the fact that it's all in your head and it being crazy is only because you're making it look crazy, it's anxiety. It's the pressure of trying to create reasons, very good and detailed reasons motivates you to continue doing this.

You just nailed it. I have no idea how, but you just read my mind. That whole post was genuinely insightful and helpful. Thank you.

 

It sort of worries me that you want a tulpa because you think it might be "useful." How would you feel if your friend told you they only hang out with you because they can use you for something? I wouldn't want to be friends with anyone like that, would you?

Honestly, if I told myself the main reason was so I "would have a friend", it would just make me feel a little pathetic. Don't read into it too much, it's just a petty justification I made up for my own sake. I did learn from experience though that tulpas are a lot more than just useful.

 

This is a false dichotomy. Bringing up the "gateway" theory is a slippery slope, implying that your mental control is gradually lost over time.

I think my self-awareness was lost over time, as I began to take more leaps of faith, but maybe that was a good thing.

 

So, in other words, you don't believe the tulpa phenomenon and your interactions with said phenomenon are objectively real, but you still find it beneficial in some way?

Yes. I'm just weighing everything carefully before I invest myself more into it.

 

Once again, the wonderland's purpose isn't "Look at my fairy kingdom and all of my adventures." It serves only as a setting. Other than imposition, it's the only true place you can interact with a tulpa, and it beats talking to it in an empty void.

The wonderland was possibly a poor example. What I was referring to with that was exactly what you were saying; people's interactions with their tulpae and "NPCS" in their wonderlands, but more specifically dramatic events that happened like tulpae "killing" each other, servitors "rebelling" and stuff like that; things that don't seem to be consistent, that seem to be just arbitrary or unnecessarily dramatic. I guess I'm probably doing a really bad job describing this but the only other way for me to explain it would be to write a three-paragraph example, which I will probably do at some point later.

 

That's not the point of this, though, so don't worry too much about it. The point is that I slowly became mentally grossed out by this stuff after a while and I'm not sure if I want to keep perusing it. It's obviously a personal problem, but you guys have all been very helpful and kind with helping me work this out, so thanks.

[corvus]

What does mean "not to be a crazy person"? Do you think that people out there are normal? How anyone can be normal? What does that mean? The society has taught us that many things are not proper or childish or evil, sinful. Doesn't it make you unhappy? Do you want to do only things that are expected to be done?

How do you feel having a tulpa? But without anyone's opinion, don't consider them at all. If you think having a tulpa is useful and entertaining or something good, why stop doing this?

Yes, I had the same problem - "lol, what am I doing? It's kinda childish...". But I attached to my tulpa. It's my experience. It makes me happy. So, F**k anyone's opinion.

Stay positive :)

 

Definitley this.

 

I had to define what 'delusion' meant for me and Luna, and after fully mapping out the fact that anything the mind percieves can be a delusion and it doesn't matter, I started to 'pop' out the thoughts thinking tulpamancy as a 'crazy person thing' or 'delusional',etc.

[Antylamon]

I do currently have a tulpa - I've had one for about five months. But he's been acting really erratic, self-contradictory and non-autonomous lately to the point of being barely functional; the last day or so of his troubles I would compare to the scene in Space Odessey with HAL melting down. It was really hard to watch, but at the same time I knew the solution was ultimately in my hands.

 

At the end of it, he became a sort of hollow "shell"; like a hologram that just followed me around everywhere with no real sentience. Pretty creepy, really. I decided it would be best to put him in stasis until I had the time to "start over" with him and hopefully fix whatever I did wrong. That was about when I posted this thread; at the time I was unsure of if I should go back and try this whole thing again even after it all fell apart, and commit the time necessary for that, or just walk away from it.

"Not all thoughts in your head are from your tulpa. There is always a veil of noise which persists through it all. Are you absolutely sure it was your tulpa?

 

Granted, it isn't really possible to 100% be sure of anything unless you're disillusioning yourself, but at least consider it. This sounds A LOT like it was just random stuff in your head. I also believe that believing any thought that appears in your head apart from your own thought process is a common thing among tulpaforcers.

 

...Please bring him back? :<"