James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge

[waffles]

On the other hand, as Chupi said, Randi is likely to reject your application without reason, and his tests will be biased if he does accept you.

Do you have any reason to believe that? What would be a 'biased test' in the context of psychic powers, in any case?

 

 

What's wrong with bonds? Well, they have to reach maturity before they can be cashed. So maybe they don't reach maturity for another two hundred years, and the money returns to the Foundation upon the holder's death. We don't know.

 

 

The Foundation has been very careful with answering questions about the money. If you read the FAQ, it doesn't actually give any answers.

Did you read the FAQ? Look:

3.3 If I pass the formal test and win the Challenge, how will I be paid?

The first $10,000 of the prize money will be paid by check, as stated in the Challenge rules, immediately upon successful demonstration of the claim. Arrangements will be made to liquidate the remaining $990,000 and present it to the winner within ten days of passing the formal test.

You'll get your money - in cash - in ten days. It's pretty explicit.

 

 

 

You tell me, is it fair to pay for your own travel to get tested to win a million dollars? Bear in mind that you could just fly out to them rather than flying them to you. What kind of psychic power is this, if you seriously need a dedicated facility and expensive equipment?

[Brassow]

One Million Dollars my ass. These guys aren't gonna fork over that in cash or check... they want publicity it appears to me.

[Sophie]

Did you read the FAQ? Look:

You'll get your money - in cash - in ten days. It's pretty explicit.

 

Considering the reputation Randi and the foundation have built up over the last nine years, I'd like them to be a bit more explicit. That quote doesn't actually say that the money will be paid in ten days -- just that arrangements will be made in ten days.

 

Maybe I'm being absurdly skeptical, but it doesn't sit well with me. I think everyone is agreed that the Foundation does not expect to ever pay that money out. The question is whether they've even left themselves the capacity to pay out, or just the appearance, and legal loopholes.

[waffles]

 

Considering the reputation Randi and the foundation have built up over the last nine years, I'd like them to be a bit more explicit. That quote doesn't actually say that the money will be paid in ten days -- just that arrangements will be made in ten days.

 

Maybe I'm being absurdly skeptical, but it doesn't sit well with me. I think everyone is agreed that the Foundation does not expect to ever pay that money out. The question is whether they've even left themselves the capacity to pay out, or just the appearance, and legal loopholes.

 

Where is the problem? Well, what if Bob's Baker doesn't succeed, and goes bankrupt? What happens to the $10,000? Basically: it's lost. Rich guy doesn't get his $100 a month, and rich guy loses out on $10,000.

 

How does this all translate to the James Randi Million Dollar Challenge? The prize isn't cash. The prize is bonds that are WORTH a million dollars. So, there are a lot of Bob's Baker people running around with the money, and they all gave Randi an IOU. And all these IOU's total to a million dollars.

 

Since the prize money is in the form of bonds, then it is possible that the bonds are worthless. For example, maybe a lot of the bonds are from corporations that are on the verge of going bankrupt? Or maybe the corporations don't have to pay off the bonds for another 40 years? In our example, Bob had to pay everything back in 24 months... this is called the "maturity" of the bond. Some bonds don't mature for a few years, others don't mature for a few decades. If Randi awards the prize of a bond that doesn't mature for 40 years, then legally I do have a million dollars... but I can't USE the million dollars until the bonds mature! As you can see, there are a lot of different scenarios where the bonds could be LEGALLY worth a million dollars, but in reality they could be worthless.

"I distrust the American monetary system, and because I dislike the bond system that makes the JREF a scam."

 

There's a long FAQ entry about the money precisely because people like you, and him, keep saying that it isn't. Look, if you want to call Randi's bluff then do your own research. Why don't you request their books yourself?

 

But uh, I want to point out that in the final quote in that PsiPog page, the FAQ says (it doesn't any more):

These immediately convertible bonds will be awarded to the Challenge winner within 10 days of passing the formal test.

Sean whines about maturity but "immediately convertible" means what it says on the tin.

 

 

Yes, they don't expect to ever pay out. But then why would they leave an escape? The money is there - you can see that in their books - and it's contractual that it'll go to a successful claimant - again

The Challenge Application, once it is signed by James Randi, is a legally binding contract.

 

 

At this point I just have to ask "What more do you want?". What more financial security is there to provide here? It seems to me beyond reasonable doubt that they'll pay.

[Brassow]

You lie! They will never give a single penny!

[QB2]

This is very old and very obviously not going to be handed out for all the obvious reasons.

By definition, proving something possible puts it under the umbrella of traditional science, making it technically normal and physical, instead of paranormal/metaphysical. Thus, individual concepts, if proved in the test environments, will be shrugged off. ("You proved ghosts! And you proved that they're created due to this specific sort of energy being retained in blah blah blah blah, so they're science, not metaphysics - you don't win, you're just a good scientist.")

What the test wants people to prove is the existence of an entirely different layer outside of science, which is simply not there. All the individual concepts one would call metaphysical, if they do exist, will obviously be something we will eventually be able to scientifically explain.

[waffles]

QB2, the FAQ is for frequently asked questions, and surprise surprise, your concern is one of them.

2.2 What is the definition of “paranormal” in regards to the Challenge?

Webster’s Online Dictionary defines “paranormal” as “not scientifically explainable; supernatural.”

Within the Challenge, this means that at the time your application is submitted and approved, your claim will be considered paranormal for the duration. If, after testing, it is decided that your ability is either scientifically explainable or will be someday, you needn’t worry. If the JREF has agreed to test you, then your claim is paranormal.

So note the last line. If it's paranormal before the test then you get your money.

[ShyMagi]

It simply doesn't work like that. The esoteric is not exoteric.

 

This 'test' claim is so old and boring. I thought the thread was a troll-post since it looks so out of place.

 

This is a TULPA we're talking about. Not an Egregore. Huge difference, though same mental mechanics at first.

 

James Randi: "So, you say you have a Tulpa, do you? Hur hur hur *smug laugh*

 

Tulpamancer: "Yep."

 

James Randi: "Can you prove it??"

 

Tulpamancer: "Er.. I would. Except it's a hallucination created by my mind, so therefore, it's sort've hard to prove that he's there physically. Heh.."

 

James Randi takes a long, evaluative pause. Simply gawking.

 

Tulpamancer: "Oh, and by the way. My Tulpa sort've laughed at that fly that just flew in your mouth! Hahaha!"

 

That about sums that.

[hhaawke]

um.... have you read the qualifying Ts and Cs of that million dollar challenge? I think you will have to show you have media presence.. IMHO at least that challenge is a vehicle to show ppl that a lot of psychic stuff as touted by famous psychics is 100% BS... it is not a true program to find evidence of the supernatural...

[Anduin]

I am not a fan of the million dollar challenge.

 

For starters the challenge is not legally enforceable. If a successful applicant does pass Randi's tests, Randi can tell the applicant to get lost, because Randi makes them sign a statement that the applicant will not sue Randi or the JREF for whatever reason concerning the challenge. Randi also has exclusive ownership of any evidence of the tests.

 

Furthermore, Randi reserves the right to change the agreed upon terms of the test during the test. So, for example, if a hypothetical psychic were able to produce hits at 1/1,000 odds, Randi could raise the bar and ask them to produce 1/1,000,000 results. He can simply keep raising the bar until they fail.

 

The idea that the million dollar challenge constitutes evidence of anything hinges entirely on the belief that Randi is honest and genuinely wants to find the truth. Yet it seems that Randi has given himself plenty of ways out so that he will never need to pay even in the face of a successful applicant.

 

You decide for yourself if you believe the million dollar challenge means anything. Personally, I see it as a magician's trick.