Fight the Fears?

[Luminesce]

Was just apologizing as a sort of half-joke for my incorrect use of the term "inherent goodness". Though I fixed my statement this time around, saying if the host believes in their inherent ____ness. But some people believe in their inherent.. neutral-ness. Of which I assumed you are one. Inherent goodness meaning you believe they'll be good, and inherent neutrality meaning either you believe they're neutral OR without influence from the host, a tulpa has no reason to be malicious towards them, given they're part of their mind. Anyways, no big deal.

[AlienLoveSecrets]

Thank you so much to everyone who responded! I'm sorry for taking so long to post responses; this was slightly emotionally difficult to make, but needed to happen sooner or later. thank you for all of your help!

 

This has been asked over and over again.

 

Tulpas are not evil, harmful or destructive.

 

Anything a tulpa does that can be construed as evil or bad can be controlle by you.

 

It's your mind, you have the power but no there hasn't been a single case, not one of a tulpa harming there host outside of hosts who were already metals unstable, on drugs and widely considered to be falsifying information anyhow.

---

I repeate tulpas do not harm there hosts. Creepy past is a work of fiction

I'm sorry the OP seemed like all other "Are Tulpa's Evil?" threads; I was more interested in the chances of tolpae turning against/haunting their owner when writing it, hence many of the statements starting with "There is a good chance that..." Sorry for not clarifying. Although you are right that a Tulpa's bad actions can be controlled by the host, and thank you so much for clarifying that. It made me realize what my previous mistake was: I was too scared to control her actions. If that sounds weird, this will get elaborated upon later in the post.

 

Honestly, I feel like if you go into it with THAT kind of mindset, you're more than likely to do more harm than good. :\

How would you feel if when you were born your parents automatically started treating you like a criminal? It's nearly exactly like I tell people when they hold my tarantula, if you relax and don't treat her like she's dangerous, she'll be happy to crawl around on you and give you spider kisses. If you freak out and tense up and act like she's going to bite you at any minute, SHE'S going to freak out, and you're probably gonna get really itchy hairs flung at your face (fun fact; tarantulas don't like biting, just like tulpas don't, you know, hurt people).

Sorry for the arachnid analogy, it's the best comparison I could think of.

Good point! I'll admit that a lot of this is from my personality as well. I'm not a very "[insert hippy voice here] chill, relax dude! *blasts Pink Floyd's 'Have a Cigar' from the car stereo*" kind of guy (But I do love Pink Floyd :)), hence why even the thought of anything that seems to have a risk of backfiring at first glance freaks me out (nowadays, at least). Thanks for the relief!

 

My friend, I first heard of Tulpae through a CreepyPasta based on your concerns and yes it is quite scary if you think about it but after long research on the matter I found that not only at tulpa.info, but many other pages state that all that stuff has no evidence to back it up. After all my research I am completely convinced that no tulpa will ever have evil intentions if there is no reason for it, and even with enough reason I find it difficult for a Tulpa to try and hurt the one body they share with the host (the only possible harm would be psychological and even then, you would need to be a terrible person with them for that to even be a possibility, its your mind, you should have control of it). And believe me, I would have never started with my own if I had the smaller doubt about it.

 

I hope our points of view are useful for you to shatter those concerns.

 

Still, I could't help but to notice that you mentioned having "unfortunate bad experiences with tulpae", would you mind telling us a bit about them?

There was a Tulpa Creepypasta? :huh: That doesn't surprise me much, but I had no clue. Thank you very much for your post, though as for my experience... Well, here it goes...

 

*clears throat*

 

I was a silly, stupid little 12-year-old kid who found a book at my grandfather's house. I think it had a name similar to "Mysteries of the Unexplained" or something like that. With it having a small section on tolpas, the concept intrigued my lonely little head, and I made the decision to have a try making one of my own. After doing much less further research than I should have, I started the process of making it's personality and, of course, made it a fucking Pokemon (a Celebi, for those who care). I made her small, cute, sweet, and loving, but gave her the ability to develop her own personality as well. I treated her very well, showed her the world around me (both in real life and our dreamland), allowed her into my dreams and thoughts, always brought her to school with me, and would active force and work on her sentience for hours each day. This went on for around a week, until I decided that, with school-work and plans getting larger, it would not be a good idea to continue working on Celebi, and that I should fully dedicate myself to school and important people outside of my own head. After a few days of not spending time with Celebi, she did something very worrying, that I still remember as clearly as yesterday. She could not only enter my dreams, but somehow gained the ability to control them completely. In the first dream, I was laying in bed in my room, the walls moving very oddly, unable to move, when she suddenly appears in front of me. She constantly yells and harasses me for what feels like an endless amount of time, until then she suddenly says, in these exact words "Since you're going to be sick soon anyway, I may as well finish you by doing what's called "The Hat". It's what many spirits use to suck the life out of people like you!". Then, the walls began to flash as a huge golden beam of light came out of my chest and into celebi's body. I somehow managed to wake up before she could finish, but when I did, I remember breathing harder than I ever had in my whole life. The most horrifying part is that she was right: A week after that night, I was sick for an entire week. I swear to god, I am not fucking kidding you. She also told me in that dream about a cockroach problem I was having under my bed, and for a couple of nights after that, she would somehow make these disgusting noises of cockroaches crawling under my bed play in my ears. It was also around this time that I began to develop an odd issue: My head couldn't stop trying to make Tulpas! Every single person I would see throughout the day and even think of, my head would go to my dreamland and try to make a tulpa copy of it, completely out of my control, and I would have to try to stop it before it went too far. I still slightly struggle with this today. Unfortunately, This lack of control also caused some, uhh, odd body parts to be put on her. I tried to take them off every time they went on, in fear that she would try to haunt me again, but they kept growing back. The second Dream happened shortly after this began to happen. I was stuck in my bed again, with Celebi then appearing, but then screaming so loud that the walls began to shake like they were going to collapse: "WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME!!!!!!!!!!! DID YOU THINK I WANTED THIS!?!?!?!?!?!?!? YOU BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!" despite this dream being just as clear and lucid as the previous one, I can't seem to remember the rest of it, though what also I remember the most from that dream was her also saying that she was going to escape to Washington D.C., and that if I were to try to get rid of her, she would "Take me down with her". Since I didn't fully understand what powers I have and didn't have over tulpa, needless to say, this scared me shitless. It felt like she had taken over me to the point where she actually had the ability to actually do this, even after waking up. That was one of the last dreams she took over though, since she eventually did become too weak from not working on her anymore. Her last major event with me, though, was when I went on a class trip to Washington D.C. 2 years later, where it seemed like I felt her presence there at a small graveyard. She seemed very scared, though that was all that happened. almost. Ever since then, even now, when I try to rid of her by denying her existence completely (which somehow, to my body, feels like it can get rid of her to me), I get an extremely worried, sick feeling in my stomach that feels so horrible that it constantly forces me to keep believing she's there, which keeps her slightly, but just enough, alive and existing in my head. always.

 

Now, before you try to feel any sort of sympathy or point out that this is entirely my fault, I perfectly understand that it is. I was a stupid little kid who mindlessly jumped into the world of delusions, not doing enough research and having very little knowledge at what I was doing. When she began to get angry, I could have simply forced her to not be angry and got rid of her. But, I didn't know any better and let fear take over me, so I paid the price I very well deserved. I'm sorry for posting the entire story, but this needed to be let out a long time ago. That's what made this post take so long to make and why I asked the questions I did: I wanted to know the chances and possibilities of this happening again. Although, thanks to your guy's responses, and the fact that I know what I'm doing much better than I did before, I'm feeling much better :).

 

I agree with above posts, no it's not possible for your tulpa to harm you and if it would harm you, it would also hurt themselves since you share mind.

Yeah, they cannot hurt you physically, though mine worked around that to try to traumatize me! But as shown above, I know better now and have learned, so thank you very much for your response!

AlienLoveSecrets Wrote:

1. There is a good chance that tulpas, even after one small mishap, will have a worrying amount of desire to hurt/haunt their host.

 

This is presuming that any shred of emotions that seems negative will never be transient for a tulpa you may have the intention in creating. That’s also presuming that you can’t see the probability of them learning how to rationalize themselves in moderating their emotions based on circumstances, and instead will have a perpetual vendetta towards you; it’s also stripping away the probability of you as the host that has the potential in working things out with them, and maybe pursuing intellectual endeavors to assess them in becoming more emotional mature to where it would be unlikely that they would have that predisposition of negativity towards you.

 

To say the least, don’t sell yourself short in your ability to talk yourself into calming down when a negative emotion overwhelms you at times that you can’t reciprocate in terms of teaching and maybe learning through them about how to handle those maelstrom of feelings we call emotions.

 

OP Wrote:

2. Quitting the making of progress on a tolpa will weaken them, but will stay in the back of your mind like a bad memory, no matter what.

 

Consider these analogies that’s probably just begging for a moral and ethical challenge for just about anyone:

 

- Consider a dream character in a dream, non-lucid or lucid, that you met that had some kind of impact to you; the type of impact where you wake up to your day-to-day lifestyle that lingers for days, weeks, or even months. You just can’t shake off the feeling of those experiences that may have been significant to you, only to realize that at best, to further those desires to experience those things again with those memorable dream characters, you probably have to engage in more pursuits with recalling your experiences in your dreams.

 

- But if you grew tired, or lost the novelty behind said imaginary entities, the only one that’s feeling there has to be a moral and ethical constraint is probably you wanting to set them up yourself. In other words, you feel a sense of obligation to do that to prevent yourself from thinking that you can flick your conscience on and off like a switch, and never having to worry about interacting with them again.

 

- But if you strived to follow this ethical assessment militantly based on every entity you feel that could fade away without your attention and contribution, then maybe, just maybe you have a lot to be accountable for. But do you really have to consider doing that for every dream character in your natural sleep? What about the ones where you couldn’t even remember interacting with because you couldn’t remember your dreams for that given circumstance? Yes, there may be certain dream characters in our dreams that we just don’t want to run away from, and some we want to just bury deep within our psyche, but that’s probably the whole inner turmoil thing we all go through, and you’re back once more in querying how you personally want to handle that.

 

OP Wrote:

3. There is a good chance that, due to the need of giving them free will in order to be a complete tolpa, they will grow the want to scare/traumatise the host.

 

Let’s utilize another analogy that may resonate in gradually subsiding this worst case scenario, and if I’m getting terminologies incorrect, anyone is free to correct me:

 

 

- Consider something like switching, and/or possession. In theory, mostly for switching, one would be shifting their awareness to imaginary senses while their tulpa presumably takes dominion with real life sensations. That sets up a lot of implications that the host and tulpa have to map out personally for themselves while not being able to really prove if the switch itself involves the tulpa physically experiencing those sensations the host usually is accustomed to in their day-to-day lifestyles.

 

- Ignoring the probability of something like, p-zombies, for the sake of this idea play with analogies, if something like switching was in that implied set of series of validating “free will” for a tulpa, then I’m sure that if the tulpa ignored all opportunities to reflect on their future actions of ill intentions, they may realize the repercussions of doing something like that to the host will have an aftermath where they, the tulpa, would feel some kind of regret in some way. And if they still aren’t able to refer to those experiences where they themselves are implied to have some form of conscience, or even sharing one overwhelming conscience, I would imagine there would be something nagging in their mind if their actions were right or wrong.

 

 

OP Wrote:

4. Tolpa will become extremely angry, violent, vengeful, and/or sad when noticing that the host wants to rid of them.

 

I think this type of fear is partially contingent in being able to see other points of view, most apparently, a view of a tulpa that may react to the probability of their host wanting to dissipate them. It always seems to be a course of ethical action; a nagging feeling between wanting to engage in philosophical inquiry with them to see why the host wants to do something like that to them, and maybe reaching a compromise to where the host becomes emotionally mature to not always have a knee-jerk reaction in anything that makes them consider the dissipation in the first place; it’s like the first type of concern you had in your OP, albeit it’s extended to emotions being part of that mishap.

 

It’s natural to feel afraid, and that fear leading to turmoil, but IMO, I believe that despite of the origins, the disposition, and just overall nature of interacting with my tulpas, the ability for us to still interact is probably contingent in the efforts we make to understand each other. A quick series of anecdotes I’ve had with them:

 

- Eva never seemed to be the goody-two shoes, or someone that had any kind of interest in high moral standards. Ada was probably just a nightmare to me altogether before I considered contributing into making her into a tulpa in some way. Eva, before she was a tulpa, and when I was militant in finding her in my dreams, she never seemed to be at my beck and call; always going things her own way, but I learned to not be bothered by that. I had this feeling that she would only come whenever I was too incompetent to deal with something, or just needed some thoughts rolling back and forth to assess something, but it seemed so silent because I never bothered to reflect as much since then. I thought I was just doing that imaginary group thinking where I can keep it to myself, and I undermined those experiences a bit, despite the rare occasions of meeting her in my dreams.

 

- Ada did some things that scared me in my dreams, even to the point of wanting to blow up an area, though maybe this was done to get myself in being aware that it was a dream, or some kind of underlying meaning. There was some form of aggression with her, and maybe even apathy as well. Though, I took a chance to make an effort to try and understand her, and be empathetic towards her point of view in her existence within those dreams. After a quick and laconic conversation, and just how she expressed herself, I ended up wanting to make her into a tulpa.

 

- She’s hardly somebody to have holy and goody-two-shoes types of behaviors, and even if somehow, she has some aggression, hatred, or even vengeance or revenge towards me, I still feel that if I reign in that awareness of knowing that taking the efforts to understand one another, it can be a learning experience for me to not just understand her point of view, but maybe look at her and see what I couldn’t find in myself, if that makes any sense.

 

- In spite of who they were in my dreams, and even in day-to-day life, I’ve been through so many experiences, and not just contingent on them alone, that the silver lining with making that militant effort to understand each one another will lead to answers somehow, even if it ends up in some strenuous philosophical inquiring on my end too; the epiphany experienced when learning through it all just helps with the whole self-betterment thing, I guess.

 

What others have said are basically reiterated here, though I tried to put some analogues and personal anecdotes, so maybe you could see other points of view, and maybe come to an understanding, just like you can easily do if you want to partake in creating a tulpa, huh?

 

Wow, I can't even debate with any of these lol. Thank you so much for clarifying everything. Alot of the things you pointed out and the examples you gave could have easily prevented a lot of my previous issues, and I'll make sure to take all of these thoughts into consideration the next time I try to make a Tulpa.

Creepypastas and metaphysical forums support beliefs that tulpas can be dangerous or malicious, outside of your control. Their "tulpas" sometimes harm them.

Tulpa.info supports beliefs that tulpas are inherently whatever-you-believe-they'll-be, mainly, kind and caring, or at least neutral. Our tulpas have never been known to harm their hosts or "turn evil", and those that have were either entirely new to the forum or using unhealthy drugs.. or mentally unstable. If you have symptoms of things like schizophrenia or even multiple personality disorder, practicing tulpamancy can contribute to the symptoms indirectly. It's not the fault of the tulpas though, but if you're schizophrenic then the more credence you give to voices in your head, the more likely problems will arise.

 

But that's worse-case, schizophrenia or full-blown MPD. We have tons of members with histories of depression, autism, or otherwise, and generally they don't have many problems. Plus, when problems do arise in the case of mental instability, the forum is very supportive in its advice. Like, "It's a bad idea to stop taking the medication you were given to prevent your schizophrenic tendencies." ... Yeah. You'll be fine.

 

 

Long story short, nip those fears in the bud. Or if necessary, do your best to completely overwrite them with those of this community. Tulpamancy, in the end, is all in your mind. If you leave those nagging fears in the back of your head, due to ironic-processes in your brain, they may develop. But this isn't some switch that gets flipped because you thought about it once, it's really your true beliefs. Nobody who believes in the inherent goodness (or inherent neutrality, sorry LinkZelda) develops malicious tulpas. Because by default, your tulpa will be neutral + understand that your well-being, is its well-being. Malicious tendencies do not naturally arise without your influence on them.

hmm. Thanks for the response! many of the issues that you described were definitely ones that caused my problems and fears as well, especially with ironic-processes and, although not directly mentioned, not believing any positive inherence back then: I definitely did not believe in inherent goodness, or neutrality. With the way I was treated in school then, the only thing I could ever believe was my own definition of Inherent Evil: Everyone is born suck-ish and born to only care for themselves and their own survival, using "liking" "caring" and "helping" other humans as a way to get to the top, weather you're even too ignorant to even realize that you do that yourself or not. The only reason others may "like", "care", or "help" you is because they want something from you (from your respect to your own self-worth), want to use you for their own gain, or you paid them to. That was life as I knew it then, and I still have difficulty trying not to see people like that, even though I've grown since then. I tried to see Celebi as an exception from that, but look what happened... Damn me and my head!

 

 

once again, thank you all so much for all of your help, and also, if any replies of mine seem to slightly contradict other ones, that is because I read one, then responded to it, then read the next, responded to that, etc.in order to try and keep my thoughts and ideas fresh. I'll try not to do that next time if it messes things up too much :(. I also apologize if any responses seemed a bit stupid or underwhelming: I'm still in the learning process, and my brain is fried from working on this for a large amount of my day. Though once again, thank you for all of your help!

[Blaycon]

Could this be the book you were referring to?

It's ok if you don't remember but it would help since I am interested in reading it.

 

 

P.D: Sorry if I'm out of subject here.

[FallFamily]

Hail:

 

OK, so first thing. Tulpas are people, and thus have a capacity to be rational and empathic just like hosts. When making a tulpa, host and tulpa usually bond unless host mistreats tulpa much like a parent with a child, though the relationship between them that can develop can be of almost any sort (friends, cousins, siblings, etc.). Even if both host and tulpa are jerks towards other people, they are often close. For example, my brother's tulpa is a jerk, but so is my brother (hmm, I wonder where his tulpa learned that from) but they seem to get along.

 

1. There is a good chance that tulpas, even after one small mishap, will have a worrying amount of desire to hurt/haunt their host.

 

Very very unlikely since a tulpa can logic and empathize things out. Still, though, you must treat them well. Like any person you meet on the outside world, if you do something bad enough to them, they will be traumatized and will not take it kindly. If you treat them well and love them them, this is almost for sure not going to happen.

 

2. Quitting the making of progress on a tolpa will weaken them, but will stay in the back of your mind like a bad memory, no matter what.

 

Well, a stronger a tulpa becomes, the slower they weaken (or possibly don't weaken at all) and the longer it takes for them to leave, if they leave at all. So, they don't always stick around, but they sometimes can. Still not good to make a tulpa you don't plan on taking care of.

 

3. There is a good chance that, due to the need of giving them free will in order to be a complete tolpa, they will grow the want to scare/traumatise the host.

 

Again, a tulpa can think and feel and their is a natural proclivity to getting along with their host.

 

4. Tolpa will become extremely angry, violent, vengeful, and/or sad when noticing that the host wants to rid of them.

 

This is about the only one on here that has much basis. Think about it, how would you react if someone wanted to get rid of you. That said, their capacity to hurt you is often limited, especially if they are not old. But mostly, they would just get really sad. Think about if your parents wanted to get rid of you when you were younger.

[sushi]

AlienLoveSecrets, have you ever talked to a psychiatrist about that? It does sound a bit like schizophrenia. I mean we have had children jump into this stuff before, and not come out as traumatized as that. Amber and Grissess are both good examples.

 

And I second Blaycon. I want to know about that book.

[AlienLoveSecrets]

Could this be the book you were referring to?

It's ok if you don't remember but it would help since I am interested in reading it.

 

 

P.D: Sorry if I'm out of subject here.

No Worries! I actually was thinking of this book:

but after digging it up again and doing a quick look-through, I saw that one doesn't seem to have any section on Tulpas like I thought it did. I'm still looking for the book that mentioned them.

 

AlienLoveSecrets, have you ever talked to a psychiatrist about that? It does sound a bit like schizophrenia. I mean we have had children jump into this stuff before, and not come out as traumatized as that. Amber and Grissess are both good examples.

 

And I second Blaycon. I want to know about that book.

 

huh. I do visit a psychiatrist, but I've never been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Although that could have been because I never told them about this story in particular, and it was very long time until I told them about all of the delusions and hallucinations I had as a child (and still struggle with today, though I at least recognize them as hallucinations now).

[Cacao]

No Worries! I actually was thinking of this book:

but after digging it up again and doing a quick look-through, I saw that one doesn't seem to have any section on Tulpas like I thought it did. I'm still looking for the book that mentioned them.

 

 

huh. I do visit a psychiatrist, but I've never been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Although that could have been because I never told them about this story in particular, and it was very long time until I told them about all of the delusions and hallucinations I had as a child (and still struggle with today, though I at least recognize them as hallucinations now).

 

I'd also be interested in the book you mentioned, good luck finding it again.

 

As for that last part there, if you are having any hallucinations at all during waking life as an adult, just know that isn't "normal". It could very well be that you have some slight amount of Schizophrenia coupled with other conditions which may be affecting you and your tulpa in unseen ways.

 

It seems to me that this may be what happened in your youth: Your newly created tulpa was scared and acted irrationally, and had you been able to better understand this (you were a kid at the time), you may have been able to rectify the situation. Instead you both kind of panicked, and things got much worse. If you go into making a tulpa now you may have much more success, seeing as you have a better view of the bigger picture, but it is also possible that for some reason your mind just makes tulpa that are more "skewed" and more likely to tend towards irrationality.

 

Also, don't ever make a tulpa if you have any fear of them at all. I don't say this to be mean, rather I say it to be nice to potential tulpa out there. Think about it from a new lifeforms point of view. They come into a world where their only companion treats them like a monster (or at the very least treats them with distrust). If one sees they are being perceived as a monster, more often then not they become that monster.

 

One last thing: I saw somewhere you said something like you could just control your tulpa not to be bad. As far as I know, that's not what anyone here is suggesting. You don't make a life and then when it doesn't act how you want you just change it. That is making a slave, and almost anyone would act bad if they are being forced against their will. Anyone who undergoes tulpaforcing should always have their tulpa's best interest at heart at all times, and a big part of that is making a tremendous effort to see things from their point of view as a full-fledged consciousness.

 

Hopefully something in there is helpful to you, and good luck if you do decide to go for it. I know I'm rooting for you, and I'm sure others here are too. :)