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What do I call these characters?
Cat_ShadowGriffin Offline
Gray the Cat-Griff
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#1
 
What do I call these characters?

I have been struggling with this issue for a while. I have almost 20 other thought forms that are not Tulpas, but feel like Tulpas in some ways, and on top of that anxiety from what to do with them. I feel like I have an answer to my question but I'm not sure how I can communicate this to any one else.

These mind characters are actually pretty normal. Kind of like the "emotions" from Inside Out, or in Sherlock where he talks to copies of people in his "mind palace", or Kronk from Emperor's New Grove when talking to his shoulder demon and shoulder angel. Bellow are some links that give some more context:


Kronk from the Emporer's new Groove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol02XlMZBPM
Kronk's Shoulder Angles: (1:35-2:27), (3:30-4:35)

Sherlock's Mind Palace characters when he's shot: (Warning, may be disturbing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRVUf9kTYYQ

Here's another example of what I'm talking about (Warning: inappropriate/offensive but hilarious) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-MiBstRDyU


To keep it short, my "mind characters" look like clones of myself and they offer a different perspective, but they are not the same as Ranger, who is a Tulpa.

If I called these mind characters "alter egos", that could be confused for "alters" or "alternate personalities" that are associated with DID, and this is not what I'm talking about. These characters have nothing to do with DID.

Is there a better name for these characters?

Don't worry guys, I'm not a Dragon! My art style is an optical illusion. I'm not a hippo either, I promise.
Ranger now speaks in light blue text, but some of his older posts are in blue text and his oldest posts are in orange text.
05-15-2018, 02:38 PM
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KarlYoshimura Offline
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#2
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

I am not sure if there is an actual term or specific concept that can be applied.

The closest I can fathom would be some thing like a distillation or incarnation of our personalities as we as well as others perceive in our selves. If you should want to apply a term for convenience or completion's sake, why not words like facet or study? That is, a part or specific manifestation of our own unique individuality.

The anima and animus (female and male aspects of one's unconscious mind respectively) might apply as well, yet I imagine both of these are nowhere near as numerous or steeped in semi-consciousness as you describe.

I've seen good people bleed
And I thought I'd seen it all
But my own two eyes would prove me wrong that day.

There are things that I've done
Only seen by the sun
And those things will be buried in my grave.

05-15-2018, 03:09 PM
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Cat_ShadowGriffin Offline
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#3
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

(05-15-2018, 03:09 PM)KarlYoshimura Wrote: I am not sure if there is an actual term or specific concept that can be applied.

The closest I can fathom would be some thing like a distillation or incarnation of our personalities as we as well as others perceive in our selves. If you should want to apply a term for convenience or completion's sake, why not words like facet or study? That is, a part or specific manifestation of our own unique individuality.

Facet could work, I guess it depends. In my mind, these thought forms in general represent you but they are programmed to have a different perspective. So in some cases you may have a more extroverted clone character or a depressed clone character, and here the term "facet" works. It may be too specific because some characters are more complex, and that could include having multiple layers to the character or the perspective they are programmed with isn't a personality trait but something a bit different (for example, taking the form of family members or younger versions of yourself).

(06-26-1970, 03:59 PM)KarlYoshimura Wrote: The anima and animus (female and male aspects of one's unconscious mind respectively) might apply as well, yet I imagine both of these are nowhere near as numerous or steeped in semi-consciousness as you describe.

I think it's reasonable to assume some of these characters could be entirely based on the anima and animus. It's not weird for people to have mind characters that are a different gender (Although I think it's weird all of my mind characters are male except for Ranger's mind character). As for the deeper connection between these characters and the subconscious... I don't know, I have thought about this for a while and I'm sure if you asked me later I would change my answer.

Don't worry guys, I'm not a Dragon! My art style is an optical illusion. I'm not a hippo either, I promise.
Ranger now speaks in light blue text, but some of his older posts are in blue text and his oldest posts are in orange text.
05-15-2018, 05:55 PM
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Vos Offline
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#4
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

Some people refer to the non-sentient characters/thoughtforms in their mind as NPCs but I'm not sure to what extent this aligns with your own experiences. Maybe the community has some nu-term that I'm not aware of, but it's just as easy to assign them a name that's more personal like what you've been doing with the "Grays".
05-15-2018, 11:37 PM
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solarchariot Offline
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#5
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

I have treated these folks as beings in their own respect. For example, if I realize I am lucid dreaming, I do not refer to or treat the 'dream characters' as characters or NPC's. I treat them as people, and I explore why they're their. This is consistent with what Carl Jung writes about when he was exploring the same with clients, or even himself, through active imagination. Whether this is actually that or not, I treat it as if it is meaningful, and I explore the interaction in two ways; first I allow the interaction to play out in real time from beginning to end, and then I write about the experience, either in terms of notes or observations, or writing it down as if I am creating fiction, or recreating a movie or drama I watched. Typically, if the people or person I have experienced have resolution in the counter, or if I have learned something, they tend not to return. If they come back, we either continue where we left off, or we do something new.

I have some repeat 'visitations' by some really interesting people that I did not solicit.

I have some persons who I invited, utilizing 'the invisible counselors technique.'

I have evidence for at least one soulblound.

I am absolutely certain of one tulpa. But I may have five. The other four came directly after I started experiencing Loxy, and I don't know how to explain them as I did nothing to solicit them, nor did Loxy, but they seemed to be a package deal, with one caveat... I only experience them in wonderland. Loxy travels.
05-16-2018, 07:53 PM
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Cat_ShadowGriffin Offline
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#6
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

The "Grays" seem to straddle the NPC and Tulpa line. My thinking is NPCs are created to exist for some temporary reason in the wonderland, which is different from a mind character that represents you but has a different personality and thought process. Tulpas are basically these mind characters but take that so far as to be their own people. (As an interesting fun fact, I realized the "Grays" are dependent on my memories in order to remember things where Ranger does not).

The main reason I wanted to bring these "mind characters" up is because I wonder if they are easily confused for Tulpas. I talk to the "Grays" the same way I talk to Ranger, but it seems like they speak in different voices using my mind and not their own (but this is not super obvious). I'm worried that there are enough similarities between the two types of thought forms that it can lead to stress and confusion, especially on the account of parroting/puppeting, or "I don't want 12 Tulpas and I don't want to kill any of them! Ahhhh!"

I would like to share my experiences and I want to see if figuring out a common and approved name these thought forms would be a legitimate idea. If it is, I would like to make a tips and trips guide kind of thing so people who may have mind characters more similar to the "Grays" can have more information and (hopefully) relax a bit. What I don't want to do is have these mind characters confused for alternate personalities (like DID) or servitors (non-sentient Tulpas).

Don't worry guys, I'm not a Dragon! My art style is an optical illusion. I'm not a hippo either, I promise.
Ranger now speaks in light blue text, but some of his older posts are in blue text and his oldest posts are in orange text.
05-16-2018, 08:22 PM
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solarchariot Offline
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#7
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

When you say "Grays" you mean like the alien on Strieber's book 'communion.'

Out side of here, (T-info,) I find all of this difficult to talk about. I mean, seriously, who does one discuss this with short of Jungian therapist who might or might not approach it as a curious psychological artifact. I suspect it would not be confused as DID. (People make bad calls all the time though, and five doctors could have different opinions, but here, we could dispense with labeling.) The criteria for DID is pretty tight and they don't just hand that out like Bipolar. Even Bipolar isn't as easy a label to acquire as it use to be. I could imagine someone aiming for schizophrenia before DID, but you know, the criteria for that is pretty tight, and so i am frequently surprised if someone says they have been diagnosed with bipolar, and schizophrenia and major depression. Can they? yeah... But most the time, it's not schizophrenia and bipolar simultaneously. (I think schizoaffective is the lazy way out of not being able to decide; does it exist, yeah, and I have used it, and I have re-endorsed it.) It just doesn't look like the kind of stuff we're talking about here.

We do so like to label things, don't we. I wonder if, contextually, given you initial post and the people who have responded, you could just share your experience with as few labels are possible, and we discuss it. We can sort words as we need to in order to discharge any value as we need to. I would be surprised if you and I are close to the same page, because i have been sorting multiple trajectories as well. I feel like there is something here to sort and better define.

Have you read Robert Wagoner's book "Lucid Dreaming: Gateways to inner self." There is a chapter there on dream characters that's worthy of consideration that mirrors this dialogue.
05-16-2018, 10:28 PM
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Cat_ShadowGriffin Offline
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#8
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

(05-16-2018, 10:28 PM)solarchariot Wrote: When you say "Grays" you mean like the alien on Strieber's book 'communion.' 

No, sorry for not giving enough context. I like to go by the name "Gray" in my wonderland, so when I was younger I decided to call all of the other mind characters "Grays" (not including Ranger). It's a terrible coincidence that "grays" also refer to aliens and worse "gray" as in "grey area".

(05-16-2018, 10:28 PM)solarchariot Wrote: Out side of here, (T-info,) I find all of this difficult to talk about. I mean, seriously, who does one discuss this with short of Jungian therapist who might or might not approach it as a curious psychological artifact. I suspect it would not be confused as DID. (People make bad calls all the time though, and five doctors could have different opinions, but here, we could dispense with labeling.) The criteria for DID is pretty tight and they don't just hand that out like Bipolar. Even Bipolar isn't as easy a label to acquire as it use to be. I could imagine someone aiming for schizophrenia before DID, but you know, the criteria for that is pretty tight, and so i am frequently surprised if someone says they have been diagnosed with bipolar, and schizophrenia and major depression. Can they? yeah... But most the time, it's not schizophrenia and bipolar simultaneously. (I think schizoaffective is the lazy way out of not being able to decide; does it exist, yeah, and I have used it, and I have re-endorsed it.) It just doesn't look like the kind of stuff we're talking about here.

We do so like to label things, don't we. I wonder if, contextually, given you initial post and the people who have responded, you could just share your experience with as few labels are possible, and we discuss it. We can sort words as we need to in order to discharge any value as we need to. I would be surprised if you and I are close to the same page, because i have been sorting multiple trajectories as well. I feel like there is something here to sort and better define.

Have you read Robert Wagoner's book "Lucid Dreaming: Gateways to inner self." There is a chapter there on dream characters that's worthy of consideration that mirrors this dialogue.

Another coincidence problem could happen if I called those mind characters "alter-egos". I would think it's pretty easy to assume someone on the Tulpa forums could have DID, especially due to the plurality context of the Tulpamancy. I think it would be really weird to call the thought forms "Grays" in a public and general sense; It would be as silly and personally awkward as calling all Tulpas "Rangers". I have a suspicion that it isn't that weird for people to have mind characters similar to the Grays, so having a not confusing agreed upon term to call them would be convenient.

As for Robert Wagoner's book, no unfortunately not. I'm a terrible person because I am not a huge fan of reading (I find reading books frustrating because I am a slow reader). However, I am interested in looking into it if I can find a copy of it somewhere on the internet or if I ever find it in my local library... Thank you for the suggestion.

Don't worry guys, I'm not a Dragon! My art style is an optical illusion. I'm not a hippo either, I promise.
Ranger now speaks in light blue text, but some of his older posts are in blue text and his oldest posts are in orange text.
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2018, 11:26 PM by Cat_ShadowGriffin.)
05-16-2018, 11:23 PM
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solarchariot Offline
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#9
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

I am not sure how not like reading, or being a slow reader, makes you an awful person. those are no way comparable. I can be a slow reader. I get distracted easily. But, I learned, because someone tricked me, that I was better than average at reading, and since then, i just keep reading, and I read at my own rate. As for the above book, yeah, get it from the library, and just read that chapter.

I absolutely agree with you. Someone here on t-info probably has DID. but I wouldn't assume someone with tulpas or your 'grays' is nevessarily someone with DID. there is too much to sort out, first.

calling grays alter ego's may have helped my understanding. in a broader sense, don't we all have slightly alter egos? I mean, the hat I wear at work is not the hat i wear at home, and though technically that's not a different personality, there are those of us who are completely different per environment or company. and there is a fluidity there that a person can go through, with some perons being more chameleon like, with the majority of people leaning more towards consistency between all social groups... am I closer to what you're aiming for?
05-17-2018, 12:14 AM
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Cat_ShadowGriffin Offline
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#10
 
RE: What do I call these characters?

(05-17-2018, 12:14 AM)solarchariot Wrote: calling grays alter ego's may have helped my understanding. in a broader sense, don't we all have slightly alter egos? I mean, the hat I wear at work is not the hat i wear at home, and though technically that's not a different personality, there are those of us who are completely different per environment or company. and there is a fluidity there that a person can go through, with some perons being more chameleon like, with the majority of people leaning more towards consistency between all social groups... am I closer to what you're aiming for?

Yeah. I wanted to bring this topic up because it seems to be culturally understood as a thing people have (at least in The United States anyway). I don't think it's a stretch to have these characters that hang out in the mind and do stuff, which is why I think confusion can occur. There's a heavy emphasis that Tulpas are people, they should be given respect, and you can't just "kill them off" or have too many of them, and all for good ethical reasons. The problem is these other mind characters or "alter-egos" usually come in larger crowds/numbers and they may be more likely to be forgotten or replaced, which makes sense because people change and it's likely these characters will either no longer apply to the person or will follow suit and evolve.

My guess is this can generate some stress and force the host to ask what they are going to do with all of these extra mind characters. Make them Tulpas? Let them go? I don't think either of these options are good or necessary. Turning the "alter-ego" into a Tulpa really defeats the whole point of having "alter-egos" in the first place (and on top of that they now have another Tulpa!). Getting rid of them when they are subconsciously needed can lead to the host having to re-think how they can think and process information, and that in itself can cause anxiety. I think these characters should be kept around but it's okay if the host does not spend as much time forcing them (because they are the host and the host shouldn't have to force themselves like they are a different person).

I had a lot of questions dealing with the stuff above because I didn't know what to do with the "Grays". I don't want them to be Tulpas because I feel like that's unnecessary but I don't want to let them go or forget them either (and neither does Ranger). I wanted to know if my perspective is reasonable because If it is then I could possibly help other people with similar issues or if not then I need to figure out what I need to do to make things right.

Don't worry guys, I'm not a Dragon! My art style is an optical illusion. I'm not a hippo either, I promise.
Ranger now speaks in light blue text, but some of his older posts are in blue text and his oldest posts are in orange text.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2018, 02:04 PM by Cat_ShadowGriffin.)
05-17-2018, 02:03 PM
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