Jump to content

Mistgod Babble Thread


Guest Anonymous

Recommended Posts

Well, when Rina manifests in the same room as me, then she can guide me around while I have my eyes closed.

That's the best "semi-proof" we were able to find so far.

 

True, I would say possession counts as proof for an individual. I'm a long way from that, however. Ironically, it seems that realizing that proof would require complete absence of doubt.

 

I second Melian. The mind is a wonderful thing and I can only see self imposed doubt as an unnecessary restraint.

"Welcome to my house! Come freely. Go safely. And leave something of the happiness you bring!"

 

-Dracula

 

My tulpa's name is Vladimira. She goes by Mira.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Guest Anonymous

 

True, I would say possession counts as proof for an individual. I'm a long way from that, however. Ironically, it seems that realizing that proof would require complete absence of doubt.

 

I second Melian. The mind is a wonderful thing and I can only see self imposed doubt as an unnecessary restraint.

 

I don't mean possession.

I mean that I close my eyes and she tells me "three steps forwards", "turn left" and so on.

 

 

Greets,

AG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lumi: Meanwhile.. I'm just taking things as they are and not worrying myself with semantics, labels, subjective vs objective. I know what my tulpas are, they're my brain simulating other people, simulate being a strong word as I consider them equivalent to my self. I don't worry about their "sentience" or whether they're p-zombies, because those don't affect us at all. They react, produce thoughts and opinions, they say they feel like I say I feel. They just are, to me. I consider myself pretty logical and a healthy skeptic, but even I drew a line somewhere. I don't need to explain and debate and theorize about my tulpas. I just treat them like people, and we're all happy.

 

This isn't directed at you by the way, Mistgod. I mean you're one of those people that cares to do the aforementioned, but so are most senior members of the forum, too. Then again, I suppose just saying "They are" isn't very productive for a scientific forum looking for answers. Oh well.

Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas.

Here's our "Ask Thread", and here's our Progress Report (You should be able to see all of our accounts on the second page if you want)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Davie is going through a profoundly weird culminating moment of actualization and revelation right now. Let's give him some credit for finally getting here shall we? Applause everyone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Yeah. xD

But really, at this point, where you (Mistgod, not Melian) make a thread and your argument gets beaten to a pulp in less than a day...

... just give up already. xP

 

JUST DO IT!!, y'know?

Just accept it already. I only say this because I feel you subconsciously already do and are in denial. ^^

 

 

Greets,

AG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't worry, I congratulate you for your big development, lol. *claps*

 

I'm surprised you haven't gotten that a tulpa is subjectively real to the host until now, but it's somewhere. :P

I have 10 tulpas, but I'm only actively working on Reah, my first tulpa currently.

Progress Report

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Why is this a thing and why are all these people responding?

 

You can make as many theories as you want, but without any empirical evidence to support your claims it's all pointless banter. So why bother?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Because it convinced me. The discussion convinced me. Why do people resist discussing the central premise of the forum?

 

Okay it took me a little over two years, but I am finally convinced. Not through empirical evidence, but by holding a counter argument for so long and mulling it over and reasoning it out. I now have good solid reasons to believe that tulpas are sentient (at least from the perspective of the host), and it isn't "just because they are."

 

I have been talking to people about this subject and getting them irritated and angry enough at me to really talk about why they believe it for seven months. People kept giving me lots of reasons and lots of philosophical angles and personal testimony. But what really got me was when I stopped trying to muddle the concept of something imaginary and instead tried to muddle the definition of reality.

 

Sorry, but I learned something or at least found my own way to explain it to myself that makes sense. The final piece was looking at the concept of reality itself and thinking that there can be different types of reality or different categories of reality. EDIT: Differences in how we perceive reality.

 

EDIT: Tulpa sentience is real because tulpamancers perceive it as real and regard it as real.

 

Besides, it can even be argued that there is no such thing as free choice (clockwork universe and cause and effect chain) and without freedom to choose, all sentience is maybe an illusion. Sentience itself is elusive because it is so subjective. Again, that brings us back to the philosophical zombies or artificial intelligence and self awareness. It is challenging to prove empirically and conclusively that anyone is sentient, let alone tulpas. The argument has been given to me before.

 

What we are left with is how a person chooses to interpret what he is experiencing in his own mind, which is subjective reality.

 

I think I will stick to my concept of pseudo-real and imaginary person for Melian. I might agree to regard her as pseudo-real sentience. But it's just semantics. The end result is the same. Tulpas are sentient if you regard them as such and treat them as such.

 

EDIT2: One of my favorite episodes of Star Trek Next Generation, The Measure of a Man, dealt with a tribunal or court trying to determine if the character Data was truly sentient and therefore worthy of rights and freedom of choice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Measure_of_a_Man_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

 

From the Google plot summary: "Picard points out that Data meets two of the three criteria that Maddox uses to define sentient life. Data is intelligent and self-aware, and Picard asks anyone in the court to show a means of measuring consciousness. With no one able to answer this, Louvois acknowledges that neither she nor anyone else can measure this in Data ("We're all dancing around the basic issue here, does Data have a soul? I don't know that he has. I don't know that I have.") and, as such, Data, as a matter of law, is a sentient being. She therefore rules that Data has the right to choose."

 

How do you know when someone is intelligent and self aware? Are not tulpas exhibiting these traits of self awareness and intelligence to their hosts? I think what I am saying is that it isn't up to others to decide if a tulpa is sentient, it is up to the host to determine that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

The idea about different realities is interesting.

Though I wouldn't say "different realities". Rather, I'd call it "different ways of perceiving reality".

 

Like... take, ahdunno, my mum.

Even when Esterina manifests in the same room as my mother and me, my mother can't see her.

But I can.

 

That's because she perceives the same things I do, but... in a different way, I guess.

I perceive a room with an Esterina in it, and she perceives one without an Esterina in it.

But no matter what she perceives, and no matter what I perceive, it doesn't change the fact that Esterina is there.

 

That's why I think "different ways of perceiving reality" is more accurate...

... you or I can perceive whatever the hell we feel like, it won't change a thing about what's actually there and what isn't.

 

And as for intelligence and self-awareness... well, I deem someone intelligent when they can reason for themselves, form their own opinions, think for themselves and display their own emotions.

And self-awareness is hard to explain, but I don't think I have to explain what it's like and what it means to "be aware of the existence, relevance and context of oneself".

(Well... now I sort of did explain what self-awareness means. Whatever.)

 

And I can't say anything about other tuppers, but I know that Esterina falls into both categories as easily as you and I do.

She sees the stressed relationship between me and my father in a more rational way than I do, she cried and knew to hug me tightly when my budgie Stewie lay dead in my hands, she is quick to say it when she disagrees with me and explains her opinions, she has questions about herself and her origins that I wouldn't really have thought to ask - and I could keep going for a very long time.

 

Aaand that's my two-or-maybe-more-like-twenty cents about your post, Mistgod.

Hope you can make something of it.

 

 

Greets,

AG

 

 

PS: I asked Rina if she wants to add something herself, but she told me I already said everything she would've thought of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Honestly, I don't know why either. But once I am convinced, I will be just as tenacious on the side of sentience. Now here is the thing, this might be interesting to you, this is a sentience recognized by tulpamancers only. It may not be objectively true to the rest of the world outside of the tulpa community. Melian may be sentient to me, and that is my reality, but to my mother, she will never regard Melian as sentient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...