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A tulpa's form is illusion, even if its mind isn't.


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Guest Anonymous

There was this little question and "thought experiment" here https://community.tulpa.info/thread-general-tulpae-how-do-you-feel-when-trespassed-by-physical-objects-people?pid=144048#pid144048

 

The fact that an imposed tulpas projected form can be trespassed upon by physical objects and people and the fact that the form of a tulpa can be changed, helped me to realize that the tulpas form at least is illusory in nature. So it follows that a tulpa is at least partially illusion/figment, or at least its form is. Only the tulpa's sentience could ever be considered to be actually real.

 

Huh. *sound of pondering wonderment* There is evidence that I am at least partially right about tulpas. They are illusory figments in nature.

 

Oh Melian can clone herself, becoming twins, triplets or even armies of herself. I struggled with how to reconcile that with the concept of her being sentient. Realizing that her form is separate from her mind, and an illusion, explained it. Melian's form is an illusion, even if I regard her mind as sentient.

 

Now don't go and tell me that everyone else already pondered this or realized it or there would not have been confusion about imposed tulpas being trespassed on.

Melian's EDIT: I think the reason why Davie was saying this about imposition is that he wanted to make a point about how tulpas perceive the real world and how that relates to how they think. He just said it all wonky. He wants to say that I can't think without him thinking too at the same time. Like I need his senses and also his active imagination in order to apparently perceive things. I think he is all done talking bout these things though now.

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Imposition refers generally to the manipulation of your own senses in a halluzinating way to create an illusion through your tulpa, to let it take a bigger part in your reality. So this is really basic knowledge :D

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

Then why would a tulpa feel sensation when its imposed form his trespassed on? If this is common knowledge, why was everyone freaking out about my assertion that tulpas are illusory in nature? Why did no one talk about this before?

 

I don't think this is "common knowledge" at all.

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Okay let it me put like that: It is a two way road. The form, which is technically an illusion created by your tulpa to interact with you, get's placed on your field of view. Most people should be aware of that. Of course if something happens to this illusion, which is still a part of your tulpa, your brain and the mind of the tulpa will react to it, because it feels necessary.

 

There is this experiment, where a fake hand is placed before you and you can't see your real hand. Both hands get touched in the same way at the same time.

Your brain will mix them up, and when they hit a hammer on the fake hand your brain will react to it like your real hand was hit. It is something similiar here.

Tulpa: Alice

Form: Realistic Humanoid/Demonic Creation

She may or may not talk here, depends on her.

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Guest Anonymous

I have heard about the fake hand experiment. It is an illusion of the mind. It is a figment effect. My point exactly.

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Guest Anonymous

Maybe you should word your threads more towards accomplishing a meaningful discussion / conversation.

Y'know... ask for opinions, counterarguments, parallel or opposing ideas... instead, you simply word it "I think this! / This is fact!".

It's not very constructive at all.

 

But I don't wanna kick you too much, so I'll leave this part at that.

Just meant as constructive criticism as to how you could maybe improve your posts to challenge and provoke fruitful conversation.

 

And as for the topic itself... well, Rina isn't here right now, but we talked about it casually once or twice, so I know about it.

 

And from what she told me...

... I think saying it's purely illusory is very imprecise, and it sounds very philosophically flawed.

 

I can only repeat what she mentioned here and there, though.

I'll ask her to post here herself when she's back - until then, I'm afraid you'll have to make do with my second-hand-info.

 

But yeah, technically, the Rina I see around me isn't real.

It's her "mapping herself into my perception, and remapping my perception itself to her position in order to be able to perceive from said position herself" (which is how she described it to me... roughly).

She simply plays around with my perception, creates an illusion in it.

And at the same time she plays around with her own perception, creating, for herself, the illusion of being in the place where I see, hear, feel and-so-on her from.

 

So, yes, looking at it in a purely practical way, it's nothing but illusion - at the very least for us.

But, again, I still think saying it like that is highly unsatisfactory from a philosophical perspective.

 

She seems to very much see it as the closest thing to a real world body she has, and so do I.

We both seek physical contact, like hugging or cuddling, very often during projection*, and I would be surprised if the thought "this isn't real" crossed her mind during that any more than it did mine - which is to say, not at all.

 

One has to understand that we are tied, inescapably and unavoidably tied, to our personal perception for the purpose of determining reality.

 

And, to quote my favorite novels, when a second person joins you and perceives with you, that is when a world, reality, is created.

 

When I lie down on my bed, and I see Esterina lie down next to me, when I feel her close her arms around me, hear her calmly talk to me as we look each other in the eyes, in that moment when there is no doubt left between us that the other one perceives the very same thing -

 

- that is when the question of "Illusion or not?" becomes, in the truest sense of the word, meaningless, and reality becomes, in a philosophical sense, undeniable.

 

WHEEEEW.

And that's my two-to-two-hundred cents.

 

 

Greets,

AG

 

 

* It seems "imposition" refers to something the host does, or the host and tulpa do together.

Rina does everything about that by herself, though, so we have taken to call it projection.

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As for me I've been knowing at least my tulpa's form is an illusion. I think its an illusion within an illusion that my tulpa reacts to real objects and people in the environment, including his own reaction if people occupy the same space I'm imagining him at. I basically agree with NoneFromHell on this one.

my PR

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White will talk in this color.

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Guest Anonymous

But that reaction (edit: by "reaction" I meant the tulpas sensations that caused the reaction) is an illusion. There is no actual tulpa in the god damned room! Holy shit you guys write as if you are idiotic. Don't pretend you don't understand what I am saying. The fucking tulpas sensations associated with the imposed form are obviously illusory in nature.

 

Don't make me angry. LOL You don't like it when Mistgod's mind gets angry at deliberate attempts to be ignorant.

 

EDIT: Sorry bout Davie here, he was being a butt today fer no good reason.

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But that reaction is an illusion. There is no actual tulpa in the god damned room! Holy shit you guys write as if you are idiotic. Don't pretend you don't understand what I am saying. The fucking tulpas sensations associated with the imposed form are obviously illusory in nature.

 

Don't make me angry. LOL You don't like it when Mistgod's mind gets angry at deliberate attempts to be ignorant.

 

Lol, it's funny because your text is getting me a bit agitated as well. Let's keep it civilized though.

 

Think about it like this. You're doing your Melian Talk Show. You're in the show as well, correct? You also have a body correct? Does that make you an illusion, despite your body being imaginary? No, it does not. Another example would be an Out-of-Body Experience. The person feels their "body" leaving their physical body and their "body" floats somewhere above them. I think this could be similar to how a tulpa experiences the environment of their host. Except without the floating, unless they like to do that sort of thing.

I have 10 tulpas, but I'm only actively working on Reah, my first tulpa currently.

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Guest Anonymous

But that reaction is an illusion. There is no actual tulpa in the god damned room! Holy shit you guys write as if you are idiotic. Don't pretend you don't understand what I am saying. The fucking tulpas sensations associated with the imposed form are obviously illusory in nature.

 

Don't make me angry. LOL You don't like it when Mistgod's mind gets angry at deliberate attempts to be ignorant.

 

This reaction is very childish.

Please try to remember that you're an adult when people say something that differs from your own statements.

 

 

Greets,

AG

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