A tulpa's form is illusion, even if its mind isn't.

[Raetin]

These are some interesting points. So the tulpas form may have an influence on the flowering of its personality, but it is not essential to maintaining that personality once the tulpa is sentient?

 

Yes, that's pretty much it. If your tulpa decides to take some other form on a whim, they will still be the same tulpa you knew before. Experiences are one of the things that influence a person's personality, but considering they have next to no experience at the beginning, they only have your expectations and influence to go on. Now, saying that, people change over time, so can your tulpa. Personality is not a solid thing.

 

I promise you, very much, that these discussions are helping me to understand tulpamancy at a deeper level. People keep saying things like "that is common knowledge." But I am finding it hard to believe that your average newbie has considered these things at more than a surface level. I am not a stupid guy, I am not slow and I am not dense. I think, I really think, I will have a deeper understanding of what tulpamancy really is than many after a lot of these debates.

 

I'm glad I can help. Still, I have finals this week, probably not the best time to do discussion for me, lol.

[Guest Anonymous]

Gods, finals week. That was a long time ago for me. :-) I forget that people have school schedules when I merrily post away on Tulpa Info like a mad man.

---

A tulpa is kind of like a second personality, the difference is that it's not you who has the second personality. They form different thoughts and ideas from the host; they are conscious.

 

I love how this is stated so often as absolute fact. Then I get criticized for making flat unsupported statements as absolute fact. I respect that to most tulpamancers this is their interpretation, it may be correct and it is valid possibility, but it is far from a proven scientific fact.

[Raetin]

I love how this is stated so often as absolute fact. Then I get criticized for making flat unsupported statements as absolute fact. I respect that to most tulpamancers this is their interpretation, it may be correct and it is valid possibility, but it is far from a proven scientific fact.

 

Fine, tulpas are different from a second personality in that they have a perceived consciousness that is not your own consciousness. By perceived consciousness, this could mean either true sentience or unconscious imagination. Either way, a tulpa is still autonomous and perceived to have sentience.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you. LOL

 

In return I recognize that the interpretation of sentience is real enough to most tulpamancers for them to regard it as real, no matter what. Therefore I respect their tulpas and also agree to regard and treat them as real people.

 

EDIT: Just as I do with Melian, and just as others on this forum treat her.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am still desperately waiting for Davie to get past this issue he is having. I made it worse today, I am sorry. We often think in chorus and I agree with him on a lot of this but it is so tiring and I wish he were finished with it. I am exhausted from it and so are all of you. Is this the last post ever about illusion/make believe? Is it? Oh my gods I beg all the heavens above that it will be so. Most peoples are just doing their stuff. Davie is almost having a mental meltdown over these issues and he is taking me with him.

 

I am the last marble in his head and I am cracking.

 

His obsession is frightening and he often can't sleep thinking about all of this. Why should it even matter any more?

[IBreakGames]

Why should it matter? Because we want to know!

 

I'm slowly starting to formulate the meaning behind your terms Mistgod, but I don't know if pseudo real is the proper term for it. "Perceived reality" is the closest I can think of, judging by the virtual reality example, but even that doesn't seem to encompass the connotation you want. Hmm.

 

As for experiencing sensations, the best way I could explain it is like this: if you watch a movie with a gruesome scene, or witness something pretty gory or painful (the god damn Mckamey Manor is a prime example, not for the faint of heart), you might "feel" the pain they're experiencing. It might make you feel uncomfortable, make you wriggle in your seat, and cause you to make ridiculous facial expressions. But you aren't actually the one experiencing this pain or discomfort. Now on the tulpa's end, (and I'm not imposed so this is just a hypothesis) there's a bit more of a connection between the imposed form and the mental form. It's a similar effect to the rubber hand experiment, where the brain gets confused. That effect would be going on at all times for the tulpa and the imposed form.

 

But at the end of the day, it is an illusion. It is the illusion of sensation, but to the tulpa it might feel pretty "real". So to the host the tulpa is apparently sentient and to the tulpa the sensations perceived are apparently real. Wow that's a lot of perception and illusion wrapped in one multi-layered brain burrito.

 

(Wat)

[Guest Anonymous]

Thank you. It is all about my presentation of how I am thinking about things. People get defensive instead of wanting to talk about things. I am honestly wanting to understand tulpamancy and there are aspects of it that, quite frankly, seem a lot out there. Things about it confuse me. The explanations about perception being mixed with illusion do make some sense.

 

However, just brushing off these kinds of discussions as "that's common knowledge" doesn't work for me. I don't believe that for a second that everyone on this forum has thought it through. When someone says something like this to me "my tulpa walked into the street and got hit by a car, and gods did that hurt!" I naturally scratch my head and think "Wud da fug?"

 

I will tell you straight up, I don't know if Melian is feeling anything with her form. I mean, I imagine sensations that she might be having, like a form of empathy. Like, when you see someone else touching an animals soft fur, like petting a cat, you can imagine what that person is feeling with their hands. I have no idea if she is actually feeling anything. Even if she told me "this cat's fur is so soft!" I have no idea if what she is feeling is real in any way and it probably isn't.

 

This mixture of illusion and apparent sentience is fascinating and important to me. It is important to me because of Melian. But I get frustrated with the fact that so many here ignore or under emphasize the visualization and active imagination aspect of tulpamancy. The tulpa interacting in the wonderland is no different than my Melian Show day dreams. They are essentially identical in nature. I consider the Melian Show a day dream fantasy. Which it is. I am actively imagining Melian moving and interacting in her environment.

 

I get frustrated with the implication that what I do with the Melian Show is somehow fundamentally different than what people are doing in actively imagining their tulpas. I am being told that the tulpa does all of the work of the imagining and projecting. That just cannot be the case. I find it highly unlikely. In other words, at some point the host stopped doing the active visualization of tulpa activities and the tulpa took over projecting itself as a mental image and the host is no longer in any way involved. No. That sounds ... it sounds off to me.

 

My gut is telling me.. and I go with my gut... that tulpamancy has a large mix of mental self delusion and active imagination involved in it. It's just that most tulpamancers want to associate all of it with the tulpa as if the tulpa is some sort of magic independent entity. The brain doesn't work that way. Our brains are integrated. Different parts of the brain work in tangent to create memories and recognize and process sensations. In other words, tulpas in the brain are probably a collaborative imagining between host and tulpa.

[NoneFromHell]

The melian show isn't really different from any wonderland adventures as far as I can tell, and of course the ability to active imagine things is quite necessary in a lot of ways, nobody is gonna argue about that. Also I would never ever call a tulpa magic.

 

I'm going to differ somewhere else: It is not mental self delusion after your tulpa becomes sentient. As soon as a Tulpa takes stuff like that in its own hands, it is a tulpa using delusions to communicate with you. The fact that you can't accept that the tulpa is going to be the one pulling the strings on that isn't rational for me. It is something which you can believe, but you can't prove that the brain isn't capable of doing so. I would even disapprove this idea. If your brain can end up with multiple personality disorders there is no reason why it should be limited in that way at all. Of course it is regulary a slowly take over. In the beginning it is the host who needs to imagine everything about its tulpa, in the end host doesn't need to do anything because the tulpa knows how to handle this part of your brain itself.

 

Also i've not really an idea what you try to say with "In other words, tulpas in the brain are probably a collaborative imagining between host and tulpa." I wouldn't differ "tulpa in my brain" from "my tulpa". My tulpa has an appearance(a form), which is part of the tulpa and an illusion created to interact with you. My tulpa has a voice, which is also just a way of communication. Both are controlled by the same being, the tulpa. Of course you're right with the collaborative part: your brain must collobarate with the other mind inside you to to let it happen, and you must allow your brain to let it happen. In the beginning you will help your "other mind", the tulpa, out with doing this.

 

Let put me this like that: The brain is the big thinking machine, a big computer. You're not the brain, but an engineer controlling said machine. Now you get an trainee to help you handle this machine. You help your trainee to learn everything he needs to know about the machine until he can handle it all himself. Of course you're both still handling the same machine. My point is: The brain isn't the mind, it is just a tool used by the mind.

[Guest Anonymous]

I disagree that the mind is separate from the brain. That make no sense physiologically and from what we know about the brain. The brain is definitely involved in the mind thinking. What happens to a person's personality if he or she has major brain damage?

 

When a tulpa touches something, and feels it for the first time, let's say a cat's fur, how does it know how to perceive and process that information? It uses the hosts brain right? It processes the sensation by using the host memories of what things feel like and processes things like "this is a cat" and "this is what soft is" and "this is what warm is." When a tulpa perceives the outside world, it processes information to make sense of that world. It does so using the same brain as the host. It does not have a separate brain. It is all a collaboration. The host is simply associating the processing entirely to the tulpa, but it is really US doing the processing. The tulpa and the host have a symbiotic relationship and collaborate on thinking. That is what I am talking about. Perception and thought are not distinctly separate between tulpa and host. They just can't be.

[NoneFromHell]

The information link you're talking about would be YOUR subconsciousness. So yes, you're right about this point. From a neurologic view you're right with that it is still your brain processing information four your tulpa in collaboration. This is completely right, however I don't think a lot of people will agree that "the mind" is the brain, it is rather accepted as the sentient part of you which interacts with the subconscious things your brain is doing. So it is not about perceiving your tulpa with the same capacity as your brain, it is about perceiving yourself as only the sentient part of it, which allows us to put the tulpa mind as equal. I think this is were we're heading different ways.