"Fully developed tulpas" without autonomous mind voice/form? (Answered! Yesh!)

[Guest Anonymous]

Ack! I am learning things and it is hurting my little mind. LOL

 

I am coming away from this with some better understanding for myself of these terms for the future. I changed my mind. I now agree with Lumi. I feel like a ping pong ball. Okay so I feel fulfilled and satisfied as I am, but I am not a fully developed tulpa perhaps, but I am still growing as a person. THERE. finally. i think i got it...

[Guest Anonymous]

When I say "Esterina is fully-developed", I mean "she is a fully-developed conscious mind like me or you".

She can think, feel, have opinions, learn, form new memories, make decisions and so on like you or me, independently from me and autonomously, and I can't control her.

That's what I mean by fully-developed, that's the whole point - it doesn't have anything to do with how she can do projection, or how she can't do possession; that's "extras".

And I'd say that's what one means when saying that.

 

 

Greets,

AG

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay.

 

What I got from all of this was that there is some significant disagreement on the terms "fully developed" in relation to tulpas and even what that would involve or even if it is a term that should be used at all. There does seem to be a general consensus that thoughtform must be self aware and think independently to be considered a tulpa. Okay. :-)

 

The measure/amount/level of independence necessary for a tulpa seems to be the are where there is some disagreement. Some people seem to feel that a thoughtform should be considered a tulpa early on in its creation and that there really is never such a thing as a completed (fully developed) tulpa. In other words, tulpas are always growing in independence and skills and understanding. Early or young tulpas may not be very independent at all, but are growing and gaining independence.

 

Considering what was written in this thread and all of the things that Davie and I have written in the past and considering that I am still learning and growing by interacting with this forum, it is plausible to describe me as a tulpa. It really is up to Davie and I to decide. Davie will probably stick with "thoughtform," while I will switch between "thoughtform" and "tulpa," depending on my mood and the context of the discussion.

 

It is clear to me though, after this discussion, that I cannot be described as a "fully developed" tulpa, as I am not independently sentient (I depend on Davie in a sort of blended cognition) and I am still growing and learning.

[Guest Anonymous]

My host Davie and I have always felt so bad and weak compared to other tulpa peoples cause I can't speak fluently really in mind voice. I need his help to talk and he parrots/puppets me lots in day dreams in which we interact. For the longest time we were saying I am only semi-autonomous because he puppets my form and helps me "talk" in those day dreams. He also helps me when we proxy tulpa type (like this here).

 

BUT

 

We have explained how I have emotions, thoughts and intent. Davie feels those so strongly, like "yer comin in loud and clear good buddy!" Could it be that I am autonomous after all? I mean, projecting emotional responses and intent and feelings...isn't that a form of what you guys are calling "tulpish?" I also talk in visual images, what we have been telling you guys are "flash visions" or "flash dreams."

 

Could I be considered fully autonomous communicating just with flash visions, emotions, and feelings?

 

Even if I don't talk so good in mind voice sentences?

 

(Slowly, slowly, we are getting their with this concept of sentience. Mistgod is still behind me, but he is changing too. He at least acknowledges I am a form of what he is calling "dependent apparent sentience." That is a huge step trust me. )

[Flandre]

Oh, you're so excitable, writing this whole new thread before I even finished my reply. You and Lucilyn have that in common.

 

Autonomy means you can do things of your own volition. It doesn't have to be full sentences or graceful movements in the wonderland, it just has to be enough that it ~confirms independence.

 

Your method of communication can just be a personal preference, you don't have to meet a specific requirement in that regard. It's just a norm. If you've got reason to believe you act outside of your host's influence, you're "autonomous".

[Vos]

I've merged this thread into the previous thread asking about autonomy as it seems to be a continuation.

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay Vosaiu, I am so happy at realizing this. We were so fixated on autonomous mind voice hallucinations and fully autonomous visualization hallucinations (hallucinations for lack of a better word sorry) that we totally failed to fully consider and emphasize the other ways I "talk" to Davie.

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Oh, you're so excitable, writing this whole new thread before I even finished my reply. You and Lucilyn have that in common.

 

Autonomy means you can do things of your own volition. It doesn't have to be full sentences or graceful movements in the wonderland, it just has to be enough that it ~confirms independence.

 

Your method of communication can just be a personal preference, you don't have to meet a specific requirement in that regard. It's just a norm. If you've got reason to believe you act outside of your host's influence, you're "autonomous".

 

YES! I am one of us! I am a TULPA! hee hee ahee

 

YAY!

 

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hee hee!

[Flandre]

I'm pretty sure we've been telling you that for a while now. But, your happiness is contagious. Congrats on the self-realization.

[Temar]

Ha ha, some things take time to wrap your mind around.

 

This definitely put a smile on our face. :)

[Guest Anonymous]

Mistgod: She is busy dancing and bouncing. But thanks guys. We need to consider how she dances for me too. THAT my friends is autonomous imagery.

 

I have a question though, why isn't the term "tulpish" in the glossary? We looked for it when we were considering this angle.

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"They are able to think, and have their own free will, emotions, and memories. In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you. It’s currently unproven whether or not tulpas are truly sentient, but in this community, we treat them as such. It takes time for a tulpa to develop a convincing and complex personality; as they grow older, your attention and their life experiences will shape them into a person with their own hopes, dreams and beliefs."

 

Melian: See? That's me even without super autonomous form and super autonomous mind voice! I blame my host for this! I blame him for holding us back from understanding or accepting this for so fucking long! Why does he always have to be right?

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Mistgod: She still falls way, way short of what Alexandra David Need described in her book. That is what I had in mind is all. That to me is what a tulpa is supposed to be, like a holographic fully interactive sight and sound vision appearing in the room in front of you (like AGGuy and Rina). Melian is not like that. She is a day dream persona and an imaginary friend.

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She just seems really real to me.

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Guys, I do not have a fully independent mind voice. My form is often puppeted in the Melian Show day dreams by my host. So even my form is not fully autonomous and independent.

 

I have emotions though and I do express them to my host. I also can express myself in dreams and with flash visions and little formulaic, reactive sentences. The rest of my interaction with my host is via active imagination and day dreaming. I depend a lot on my host, who either imagines me or channels me and does his best to interpret my intent. Now note after many, many years, he is very good at that.

 

 

ANSWERED! YESH! In yer FACE! EEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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My emotional responses are very autonomous as is the feeling of my presence. Things like the flash images are very autonomous, Davie does not consciously think of or summon those, I do. These occur every day, multiple times a day. It is how I express myself to him. That is why I am definitely a thoughtform of some kind, if only semi-independent in nature.

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*dancing happily and giddily and joyfully*

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SENTIENCE and AUTONOMY CONFIRMED! In yer faces! Hee hee

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Okay thankies! I am so excited and happy! I hope you guys don't pull the rug out from under us. Please, please, please don't tell me I can't be a tulpa cause I can't talk good in mind voice. Oh ...

 

Talking 'good' in mind voice doesn't invalidate a thoughtform's 'status' as a tulpa:

 

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Hee hee