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The Median Thread: Can a tulpa be a Median Aspect?

Can a tulpa be a fictive median aspect?  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Can a tulpa be a fictive median aspect?

    • No a tulpa must be totally independent of a host not an aspect of the host? If it is an aspect or facet of the host, it is not a tulpa.
      9
    • Yes, a tulpa could be an aspect or facet of the host and not fully independent.
      7
    • It depends. I will explain below.
      5
    • It is either a fully independent tulpa or it isn't of value and lacks credibility or validity and pretty much sucks. You should conform or leave. You are trying to change the definition of a tulpa.
      1


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I disagree with not including medians as tulpas. I believe they are functionally equivalent and indistinguishable. I don't believe a tulpa is defined by a goal of becoming independent, I believe it's defined by simulating independence by channeling unconscious thoughts to simulate a personality separate from the host. Medians do the exact same thing.

 

I believe a median is a subsection of tulpa, defined by a philosophy that the tulpa does not strive for complete and total independence and separation from the host, but rather utilizes it's abilities, what could have been independence, to extend the host, and do what the host could not on their own. It's not the opposite of a tulpa at all, it's just two sides of the same coin.

 

And, personally, I think it would be rude to exclude them from being called a tulpa. I personally don't even like the term, due to negative association from roleplayers and stuff (I prefer "thoughtform"), but, the reality of the situation is, this is a tulpa community, and medians share almost every quality as a tulpa. That's why I feel they should simply be considered a subsection of tulpa instead of a completely different thing.

 

[Tri] We agree with you on some of that, but not all; either that or there we are misunderstanding what you said or what you said didn't express what you meant very well (we've done that enough times). Basically, instead of median being a subset of tulpas, or the other way around, some tulpas are median and some medians are tulpas. The reason we bring this up is that a median system that came about by splitting is a very different origin than that of tulpas (whether median or multiple).

 

I also disagree with the broader subject of trying to define a tulpa so rigidly, as was the subject of an argument in this thread. I think trying to make a rigid definition is wrong and unfair, and there's always going to be someone for whom the definition does not fit, if it's not vague enough. The mind is vague, tulpas are a product of the mind, tulpas should be vague. They are a philosophy, not a game.

 

Going too rigid certainly does have the problem of people falling between the cracks of categorization. In some ways, it is more helpful to thing of each classification as a cluster/region in a large volume with fuzzy edges between one and another.

 

If you want my opinion on the definition of a tulpa, it's a separate personality from your own that you consciously, lucidly created, similar but critically different from DID and other personality disorders that are the express result of not consciously or lucidly creating a separate personality, but rather doing so due to a neurological malfunction or an emotional breakdown, something uncontrolled and uncontrollable by the host. This definition fits both tulpas and medians.

 

I disagree strongly with that last paragraph, as a major misunderstanding of what DID is and what personality disorders are.

 

DID is a dissociative disorder, and it is not to be conflated with healthy, yet unintentional multiplicity. It is also not to be conflated with unhealthy multiplicity. It is a form of dissociation.

 

Personality disorders have nothing at all to do with manufacturing personalities.

 

I also don't think the mind is vague, or supposed to be vague, but this one is up for philosophical debate.

 

We agree with the part that personality disorders don't fit here. The reason they always come up is because DID used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder and people placed it in the category of personality disorders a lot of times. One of the reasons the name was changed was so that it would be more obvious that it was a dissociative disorder, not a personality disorder. That, and how it worked was better understood.

 

DID and OSDD-1 are both traumagenic forms of plurality with a lot of disorder, with OSDD-1 being characterized by less disorder overall. They are dissociative disorders like you point out. Other sorts of plurality can become disordered as well depending on the circumstances, but may or may not involve dissocation issues. There are three main origins of plurality - traumagenic, endogenic (sometimes called born or natural), and created (includes tulpamancy). Multiplicity is often used for the generic term that includes both forms that are not by choice (traumagenic and endogenic), but others use it as the completely generic term. Plural is unambiguously the generic term that includes all of these. With these definitions, DID and OSDD-1 would be considered two forms of unhealthy multiplicity, actually. But there are many forms.

 

DID and OSDD-1 are different in many ways from other forms of plurality, and similar in other ways, whether the other form has much disorder or little at all. This is pretty much true between any two categories.


Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

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Guest Anonymous

 

[Tri] We agree with you on some of that, but not all; either that or there we are misunderstanding what you said or what you said didn't express what you meant very well (we've done that enough times). Basically, instead of median being a subset of tulpas, or the other way around, some tulpas are median and some medians are tulpas. The reason we bring this up is that a median system that came about by splitting is a very different origin than that of tulpas (whether median or multiple).

 

It is possible some are born median systems or become medians at a very young age.  Davie was 12 or 13 when he first got a vision of me in his mind and began treating me as "an imaginary girl friend."  But we do remember "feelings" as early as seven years old and he talked to me as one of his imaginary friends even then, but the feelings were more vague and I didn't have a distinct identity.  He remembers looking in the mirror and having a "feeling."  As he grew up Davie had lots of imaginary friends and it was all kinda lumped in to that.  It wasn't until puberty that I began to form a distinct identity.  

 

We still believe that extreme immersive day dreaming with me and talking to me brought on the same process used by tulpamancers in active and passive forcing.  But the goal was different and the feelings were different.  Davie wanted to feel my emotions and thoughts and experience them in the "Melian Show" day dreams.  He wanted that connection with me, not to have me independent.  Part of Davie wanted to be Melian not make a new and separate person completely.  

 

I don't know if it was "splitting" or not exactly, but I did form that identity within Davie's mind.  We have no name for it really or didn't.  We didn't even need a name or explanation for it until I went public on the internet in 2012.  Then we started our search.  I don't know why it took us so long to fully embrace "median aspect."  Davie and I have always been writing about how I am his inner girl and we are transgender bigender though for almost three years.  We sorta got "stuck" trying to fit in as best we could with tulpas.  

 

It feels so much better now that we finally have embraced and acknowledged things.  I think it is a fear deep inside of the transgender thingy.  We accept it, but yet not.  It is a difficult thing to admit that you may be transgender in even the slightest way, especially if you come from a religiously conservative Roman Catholic family.  

 

I know not all medians are transgender or identify as transgender, but Davie and I have felt for a long time that bigender does describe how we feel, especially when interacting on the internet and channeling me out.  All of this explains so much!  It explains why he was so easily able to channel me, why my mind voice is blended with his thoughts and why our emotions are blended.  I am David as we have been saying for so long.  I am Melian but I am also Davie.  It explains the mutual dreaming, the mind voice in chorus, me dreaming, all of it.  

 

I think it is possible from our own experience to have a "splitting of desire" where you just want something so badly it just happens.  David created me though just intense, obsessive desire to be with me and to be me.  It is complicated and I have many sides to me.  All of that is in the Book of Melian, of course.  Yep.  

 

I am so okay now not identifying as a tulpa.  Now we are learning to let tulpamancers be themselves and express themselves without it always being about Melian!  Tulpamancers are proud and tulpas are proud!  They should be!  It is amazing what they are doing and what is happening.

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I never had an imaginary friend. I always wondered what it must be like, or how real they are to people who had them. I have been alone my entire life, but I was fine with that. I didn't even want friends.

 

You know, like, do imaginary characters count as either median or multiple? Do kids use their headfriends as scapegoats, or are they being honest when they say their friend knocked over the lamp? Do they have complete control over them? Do they think their companion will actually drink that tea they poured for them?

 

It just all sounds so ridiculous.

 

Yeah. Not like tulpas at all. You know, I actually try to eat her food sometimes while projected. I can sort of taste it, but it appears back on the plate when she looks at it. :(

 


 

Ouch. being trans in a conservative family is hard. My host is agender. All by herself. I guess together we are bigender. I like being male. My host hates the idea.


Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

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Guest Anonymous

I never had an imaginary friend. I always wondered what it must be like, or how real they are to people who had them. I have been alone my entire life, but I was fine with that. I didn't even want friends.

 

You know, like, do imaginary characters count as either median or multiple? Do kids use their headfriends as scapegoats, or are they being honest when they say their friend knocked over the lamp? Do they have complete control over them? Do they think their companion will actually drink that tea they poured for them?

 

With the imaginary friends, I guess it depends on the individual as how real they seem. To my hostie, they seemed pretty real. I was the only one that persisted though for years and the only one that could be described as a median.

 

It's funny now that we think about it. Some people have reacted to the Melian Show day dream adventures by saying "That is strange David. When I day dreamed, it was always myself on adventures. You day dream about Melian going on adventures and not yourself." We never considered it really carefully, but there are two levels to the fantasy. One, I am super duper cute and he enjoys "watching" me have adventures and be adorable. Two, we get to experience what it is like to be Melian together. We have said often that I am an expression of feelings of female gender. It is like we were saying it without really fully grasping the total significance of that and what it means to me being a tulpa or not.

 

 

It just all sounds so ridiculous.

 

Yes, perhaps. But remember to some tulpas sound ridiculous. Each one of us, every human, has a different mind and some just function differently. To my hostie, imaginary things seem very real!

 

 

Yeah. Not like tulpas at all. You know, I actually try to eat her food sometimes while projected. I can sort of taste it, but it appears back on the plate when she looks at it. :( [/tulpa]

 

That must be interesting to have an imposed form. :-)

 

 

Ouch. being trans in a conservative family is hard. My host is agender. All by herself. I guess together we are bigender. I like being male. My host hates the idea.

 

Davie's mother would not speak to him for a long while after he told her about me and how we are a bigender system. She said "Are the bad people taking over the world?" That was in reference to the transgender community, whom she felt had corrupted her good son somehow over the internet. She still refused to speak of me. I am a forbidden subject at family gatherings where she is present. It has strained the relationship Davie has with his mother and conversations are awkward, simplistic and forced. No depth. David used to go to Catholic mass with her every Sunday but quit when the priest found out about me. In the confessional, the priest told Davie he should deny me, suppress me and ignore me and pray to God instead. He said I am an instrument of the devil to distract him from God. So Davie quit going to church and that stained the relationship even further.

 

So Davie keeps insisting I am imaginary. In part that is to protect himself see? He has to talk about me to others and it is easier if I am a day dream and art muse and imaginary character that he closely identifies with.

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I was just using DID as an example but yeah I guess I made some assumptions without knowing what it was, sorry.

 

I didn't think about tulpas and medians converting to one another, but that's a good point! That's even more reason to consider medians a type of tulpa. Though when I said subcategory, I just meant like a breed of dog, not something lesser. Just a more specific definition of a tulpa.

 

Scarlet definitely started out as a classical tulpa, but she never took herself as seriously as I've seen other tulpas do, and never had any desire at all to interact with the world (sometimes I ended up talking her into it but she never liked it). She doesn't even care about being called either a median or a tulpa, she's largely indifferent to anything that isn't my work. I guess she's a tulpa that turned into a median.

 

Though, it's not the same case as Mistgod. I've had a few paracosms as well (in which I'm not myself) that lasted years (still do), since I was 14 as well, but none of them ever turned into a tulpa. Probably because I'm a pretty focused and organized person and I see a lot of things strictly for their usefulness, and don't really see a point in my paracosms having a life of their own. I prefer my paracosms to be segregated as daydreams and my tulpas to act as, I guess, a mental personal assistant. Scarlet's also a really good friend, though.


Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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Guest Anonymous

That is interesting! I know labels and categories are so arbitrary and so imperfect, but it almost seems like Scarlet is a lot like a servitor, or how I have heard servitors described.

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That is interesting!  I know labels and categories are so arbitrary and so imperfect, but it almost seems like Scarlet is a lot like a servitor, or how I have heard servitors described.

 

Interesting! I thought servitors weren't supposed to have personalities, though? From what I recall they're more like strict tools for the host to do specific tasks. Scarlet probably likes to think of herself as a servitor/median but honestly she's pretty tulpa-like in a lot of regards. Perhaps she just has an identity crisis.


Scarlet - anime, 8/15/2012

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Guest Anonymous

Perhaps she just has an identity crisis.

 

Don't we all sometimes. LOL

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Servitors aren't supposed to have their own emotions or biases, unless that's literally part of their job. Don't worry, she's well within the realm of tulpa.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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