Lumi's Dreaming Thread; Dreams of Moon

[tulpa001]

Wait. You got thirty entire minutes?

 

Congratulations!

[Lucilyn]

thirty minutes of managing not to fall asleep (but also not wake up too much) where I tried to do "the SILD thing", which is focusing on your sense of sight for a bit, then your sense of sound, then your sense of touch (being aware of your body) and repeating that preferably three times or so. But it's been super hard to stay awake (like I said before, my mind keeps tricking me into thinking that thinking about X is what I was trying to do, like, while I'm trying to go from sound to feeling and being aware of my body, I can get carried away into thinking of "a larger area" and end up imagining a place rather than just being aware of the body - silly stuff like that). But anyways, after I eventually managed to do it for a long/consistent enough time (like three cycles over a few minutes I guess) I let myself fall asleep, but I didn't notice anything special different.

 

You keep acting like we're gonna be like "yeah had a lucid dream finally" and that's it. If we have a real lucid dream where we get to meet each other we will change the thread title! And just, it'll be a way more exciting post, okay?

 

Anticlimactically last night I was just really tired and consciously (I swear) decided to just sleep instead of try the Senses Initiated Lucid Dream stuff, and ended up sleeping for almost 14 hours so I was definitely really tired. Idk. I guess you have to take breaks from breaking up your sleep like that (but that's something Tewi never did, maybe that's why she got stressed out). But I did think of something that'd help the SILD attempts! Getting up for a second before lying back down should help us be just enough awake to do the SILD stuff, while the SILD stuff should be not too intensive so we can still fall back asleep. Right?

[tulpa001]

Did we tell you about the switching exercises we have been doing recently? Some nights I can manage to continually control the body while my host falls asleep.

 

It seems to be really finicky. In order to work, we have to be at just the right level of tiredness.

 

I wonder what would happen if you tried to integrate that into your efforts? What happens if you fall asleep while giving yourself a massage?

[Lucilyn]

I don't.. exactly understand what that means. If you're controlling the body, in the context of switching not possession, then it doesn't mean anything if your host falls asleep 'cus you'd be the one in control of the, I dunno, consciousness? Of the body? Anyways, for things where one of us stays awake while the other fronting falls asleep, the mind gets carried away - from us, when it drifts off. So it's pretty much like us falling asleep too. Even if we were still "awake" when we were that falling-asleep tired, we'd be just as delirious as the rest of the brain's thoughts and sure wouldn't be able to tell Lumi he was dreaming minutes later. Just kinda not how we work as a system I guess. The stuff you guys do has always sounded weird to us because we don't have separate consciousness-es, we share just one, that we just consider the body's. It's why we don't fall asleep when switching when one just switched out and the other hasn't switched in, the body itself is conscious, the body's consciousness is like the OS if we're all programs you know?

 

something like that

[tulpa001]

Well, during our successful attempts, the "main" awareness fell asleep and started dreaming along with my host.

 

So, the mundane explanation would therefore be, I invented a sort of sleepwalking technique.

 

And yeah, "Delirious" is a good definition for how I end up. But I think maybe someone with more experience with dream technique stuff like you could push it further and get to an interesting place.

[Lucilyn]

huh, inducing a sleepwalking state or something like that? I guess that makes sense. But as far as I know we're immune to sleepwalking/sleep paralysis/lucid dreaming states, our brain's too darn good at either being asleep or not being asleep.

 

I'm maybe not so good at all the clever ideas Tewi comes up with and, like, at least Lumi's determination to keep finding new ones. BUT if you asked me what I'D do, I'd say we should just keep messing with our brain/body by trying to be all awake and asleep at the same time all the time. It's not so much a strength of mine like, the crazy willpower/determination things, I have both of those but they don't work like that. So.. our brainthinkingness (it's 5AM I'm tired lol) says it shouldn't work because it's undirected and stuff, but I just feel like it might eventually work y'know?

 

should try to explain what that means... So all them lucid dreamers talk about this staying conscious while falling asleep but not actually falling asleep but make sure you're actually falling asleep while not asleep. That makes no sense to me, and it's never worked for Lumi and Tewi. What makes sense to me is if you just like, always did just enough mental activity to be awake while dead-tired, like it's okay if you drift off actually that's perfect but you just keep that up, rather than try to keep your thoughts organized and stuff you just have spikes of mental activity (that mental image makes sense to me), almost asleep then like wait nah I'm awake {Bob-omb Battlefield in Mario 64 weird romhacks Joel playing instead of Vinnie} wait yeah awake, I wanna lucid dream, {should try to stay awake in wonderland, forest not house could I sleep in my house on the pond maybe} /basically fell asleep/ kinda wake up continue wonderland visualization actually fall asleep - Lucid dream! Right? Doesn't that just make more sense than staying awake and being asleep at the same time? I'm definitely speaking sleep's language.

 

here's a game grumps remix song that makes as much overall sense as this post which was emulating our mind while mostly asleep but sometimes remembering vaguely to be awake

[video=youtube]

it's really just what I felt like listening to, as a result of my thoughts being as exemplified above, it's speaking my language

 

Maybe I'll do that! Good night!

[tulpa001]

Yeah. That's why I mentioned my exercise. By drawing small circles on yourself, you can reach that just awake enough but not awake and not asleep state you are currently trying. The massaging won't prevent you from falling asleep, but requires you to remain sorta awake.

[Lucilyn]

the original lucid dreaming guy - I think Stephen LaBerge - did a thing where he'd like, hold up a key or something, and when he fell asleep it'd land on some sorta metal (bucket maybe?) and wake him up. I remember one time (except I didn't exist yet) Lumi spent like 2 hours with his arm in the air trying to fall asleep lool, rip. Maybe that's why we have an aversion to those sorts of things. But maybe it could work... Well maybe not. I'm thinking of just like tapping two of my fingers and even that seems like it would keep me up. Actually I just tried to think of a mental-only thing, thought of counting a number every so often (regardless of actual time like minutes or something, just whenever I remember) and somehow it seems like even that would keep us up. I don't believe it. But if it goes anything like all the other stuff I've been trying, I'll do it for a little while and then just fall asleep and not remember until I wake up again.

 

Hmmm. I can't think of any ways through this impenetrable wall of nope. Hey thanks for that compliment I think you gave us a couple posts ago by the way! But I think maybe you're giving us credit in the wrong way. We know lots of stuff and we have personal experience (with things not working, mostly) - but that doesn't mean we have any real ability to go with it. Like remember we might be lucid dreaming experts, but not professionals. in fact with our experience I feel like it's safer to say there's less chance for us to be able to do things than the average person, so

 

 

I had a lot of dreams I remembered a lot of last night it's so totally random! No rhyme or reason yo. In a silly way, it feels like I can "analyze" stuff and test "hypotheses" just as well as Tewi can with lucid dreaming, because neither of us ends up making any progress x3

 

by the way, direct result of our (thx2lumi) ability to choose our beliefs and emotions right there. The idea "came up" in my mind that I could be really sad for realizing (I mean we "realize" this all the time though) that this is super important to us but we're making like zero progress. But see, I don't wanna be sad, doesn't make any sense to me. What would being sad help? I'm just gonna keep on livin' until maybe it does happen. Since it didn't make sense to me, I didn't have to feel bad. That's something I really appreciate about this system I was pretty much born into, I can choose to feel however I want, and I know that most people can't do that. Lumi couldn't either a long time ago, before Reisen helped him get more positive beliefs (or just get rid of his negative ones).

 

weirdly enough, it's usually just Lumi that ever lets himself feel sad, even though he's the one that kinda changed the mental-hardwiring in our mind. As far as I can tell, he only ever lets himself really feel bad if the reason's related to us. Which hey, sounds totally wrong now that I say it. Well, I wanna say "We're not something he should ever feel bad because of, only good", but uh, his emotional attachment to us is too strong I guess. Even though to ME what I said makes sense, I can tell for him it's not really a choice. I wonder if it's not for me either? No one else in the system ever really gives me a reason to feel bad though, they're all too emotionally strong in their own ways, and Lumi like.. It doesn't seem like my place to take responsibility for him if that makes sense. Like I feel a little bad when he feels bad but mostly I just try and be happy for him, it's not at all like when he feels bad for one of us, if he ever does.

 

It's 5AM again! Tired! Blaming the position of the Earth relative to the sun for rambles. It's just like I fell asleep lol, I was supposed to keep writing to think of something to do tonight like we were talking about, but then my thoughts got super off topic... Okay well, I'm sure it's not true and we have to just keep trying, but it feels like nothing we do to try and "stay awake while falling asleep" will do anything, because we've got so much experience with that always ending up working out the same way, when I try to think of possible things to do they all seem like they'll end up like that. See, I told you I'm not as good at thinking of things as Tewi, because I know the last buncha things she's thought of apparently had a chance of working in our mind but not mine. That thing I said last time sounded good but I just ended up totally falling asleep every time...

 

well To Be Continued I guess, I'm tired so I'm just gonna go to sleep, but our track record says either way I've got a decent shot at randomly making some sorta progress lol

[Luminesce]

Just under two months of not fronting, life sure does go by fast. Except for Flandre and Reisen, it never feels like it's been more than a week or so since one of us last fronted. The full moon's today, which is just slight coincidence for me switching back. Mainly Lucilyn just thought it'd been a while and she wasn't really doing anything with lucid dreaming.

 

---

 

Yeesh, I wish she'd talked to me during any of that. I really don't like that it's kind of my fault for doing that to Tewi, and I'm glad Lucilyn got her to take a break. But I guess there's not much more to say on that matter - Tewi did what she did because it's how she is, and she wouldn't have taken no from me for an answer. I guess I couldn't have known if she'd be successful or not.

 

I still have no idea what to do though. Even less than before. They just ruled out a lot more stuff, a lot of which I hadn't thought of before too. Would a lucid dream aid in the form of some expensive device really be such a big deal? Half of Tewi's plans counted on having just one lucid dream in order to make future ones easier. Since it's such a big deal to us, surely just having one or two lucid dreams could kickstart that for us. And then we could have a fallback for if we ever fell out of it. I'll think about it. I hadn't before because I figured there was still plenty of possibility of us accomplishing it on our own. But now that I've seen Tewi torture herself with that persistence I never had and fail anyways, I'd say it's on the table now. I'd pay everything I have and the rest of my life's earnings too if it was the only way to see my tulpas.

{new unsubbed video, lyrics here}

Anyways, whatever, tonight's not for lucid dreaming, it's for spending time with my tulpas. Some day, somehow, those will be the same thing.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Luminesce

[Luminesce]

Important: Is there anyone who follows us and our thread, who would be disappointed if we ended up using some sort of lucid dreaming device? Likely a mask that detects eye movement (REM sleep) and flashes lights or some such, which you look for as a dream sign, to induce lucid dreams. I need to know if I'm some sort of role model for someone who would be very disappointed if we did that. There's always the chance it'll just wake us up no matter what settings we use, though. I would not be surprised.

 

I'm not in a good mood at all, which is inexcusable on a full moon - thought I'd play something Lucilyn deemed as not fun as if that didn't matter, two hours of frustration later I gave up. I don't know why I doubted our resident Philosopher of Fun. Anyways, in this mood, I pretty much have no answer to our nightly "What should we do to help with lucid dreaming?" question other than that. I'm really hesitant to let Tewi go back to doing her thing again - she did tell Lucilyn she was only going to take a temporary break - but she shouldn't have to. She tried her best already and didn't succeed, which to me says it might as well be impossible to achieve in a reasonable manner. Being reasonable with our unreasonable brain and body has done nothing so far, that's why my only answer right now is a lucid dreaming device.

 

 

Did some research, looks like the REM-Dreamer is the only candidate for me right now. Flashes lights and you can move your eyes in a specific way to tell it you're lucid, so it doesn't interfere with..

Just had the thought of getting to hug my tulpas, it just kind of overwrote my mood. I know, us learning to lucid dream on our own would be inspiration for those having a lot of trouble too, but.. It's just been so long. Maybe the lesson is that if you really do go seven years with no results, you should buy your way out of that hell. Life's way too short for that. If I'd known it was going to take that long and STILL not happen, I would've spent the $170 or whatever it costed back then. I didn't need seven years of this, really. Though no lucid dreaming device that couldn't communicate with the dreamer would've met my standards - I won't stand for annoying flashing lights in my face while I try to enjoy the dream.

 

Anyways, if someone's answer is yes, that would disappoint you, then I won't do it yet. It's less that I want to give up and more that I'm starting to think this is the best thing I could be doing. Hard to believe after all this time I don't have much faith left in the traditional methods isn't it? But anyways, they do work for the majority of people. Give it at least a year of dedication or a few of not, unless you're richy-rich.