Emotional responses, mind and body: what to do next

[Danzi]

Wonderland adventures are great. Though if your mind likes to generate disturbing or dangerous things it might be better to make a safe little house there and wait until she's a bit further along before taking her on adventures.

 

As for puppeting, if you aren't sure whether you're doing it, YOU ARE NOT. My first tulpa (Lyra) has told me that all "questionable" movements (and thoughts from her) are indeed from her. Most likely what you're doing that you think may be puppeting is you briefly imagine your tulpa doing something, and she immediately does it. This feels fake as heck, but I've been assured it's more like visually suggesting or asking them to do something. She sees what I imagined and does it of her own choice. I've had instances where I do that and she does something entirely different instead.

 

I did a test a few days ago when writing another post on the subject. I imagined Lyra moving a certain way, she did, and when I asked she said it was her doing it. This felt effortless, just like when I consider doing a task myself and plan the motions in my head. Then I more forcefully imagined a different simple movement, which she also did. This time her response was more like "WTF why you do that?!" This was puppeting -- forcing her body to move against her will. It required effort on my part.

 

[i've been puppeted in my wonderland once. My imagined body started moving on its own, walking and making turns I couldn't predict, jolting me out of first-person view repeatedly. I tried and could not stop this happening. It felt every bit as much forced on me as it felt like I was forcing the puppeted movement on Lyra in the above test.]

 

Randomly occurring (or consciously created) thought about your tulpa doing something, little to no effort to think it? NOT PUPPETING.

Making a more distinct conscious effort to imagine a movement in detail? This is puppeting. It does not happen on its own. The resulting movement feels like it came from you, and you can feel that you made an effort to do it.

 

>WTF why you do that.

that made me smile

[Chupi]

By derping out I mean stuff like objects spinning out of control when you try to visualize them or rotate them to see a different angle, water not acting like water, having yourself drift upward and get permanently stuck in a corner somewhere, etc. Basically stupid pointless irritating stuff your subconscious does when you attempt to visualize. A dancing tulpa who says fuck gravity is not visualization derping out; nor is an active imagination that produces adventures in your head.

 

ADD is fine if you have enough things for your mind to flit between -- like items in a wonderland.

 

I'm not so sure about beliefs fixing visualization. The most common issues are have trouble producing a good image in the mind's eye because of being unpracticed / out of practice; and trouble focusing enough on what's there instead of the backs of their eyelids. I used to have much more trouble with the latter of those until a few weeks ago. I'd had the most success with some tricks to help me "see" stuff, like describing the scene vividly, or paying attention to lighting while moving the light source around. Trying to believe I'm good (affirmations), along with some assorted gimmicks, gave more temporary effects.

 

A few weeks ago my first tulpa (Lyra) did *something* in my subconscious that helped with visualization; this had a relatively small but noticeable effect at the time, but she told me it should be permanent. Since then the effect faded a bit (probably initial belief from her doing it), but then it's started getting better with use like it should have before. (That had been an issue for me before -- at first I had a few breakthroughs that let me visualize something at all; but for a long while it really wasn't getting any better except for the very rare super-clear session.) More importantly, I've been having fewer sessions where the visualization just doesn't work at all. At first she couldn't describe exactly what she'd done without going into tulpish, but did eventually tell me a simplified explanation. From her explanation, the best I figure is she strengthened connections from my memory (for source material, I assume) and emotions (presumably to help me more easily shift my attention there somehow) to the mind's eye.

[Lolimancer]

By derping out I mean stuff like objects spinning out of control when you try to visualize them or rotate them to see a different angle, water not acting like water, having yourself drift upward and get permanently stuck in a corner somewhere, etc. Basically stupid pointless irritating stuff your subconscious does when you attempt to visualize. A dancing tulpa who says fuck gravity is not visualization derping out; nor is an active imagination that produces adventures in your head.

 

I used to have problems with rotating objects in the beginning: i solved it by physically moving my hands in midair, like they were somehow controlling the "camera", the position i were seeing things from. Inserting myself in the void/wonderland, be it first person/third person/both, helped too (i didn't do it when i was starting out). Didn't experience other particular glitches - when adventuring my "camera" likes to move freely a lot, switching between first/third person and sometimes even making me disappear and leaving only my tulpa, but it doesn't really bother me or anything. On the other hand, the fact that having an (over?)active imagination is not an issue reassures me.

 

ADD is fine if you have enough things for your mind to flit between -- like items in a wonderland.

 

Totally not a problem; if anything, as it is, my wonderland is pretty much all over the place.

 

I'm not so sure about beliefs fixing visualization. The most common issues are have trouble producing a good image in the mind's eye because of being unpracticed / out of practice; and trouble focusing enough on what's there instead of the backs of their eyelids. I used to have much more trouble with the latter of those until a few weeks ago. I'd had the most success with some tricks to help me "see" stuff, like describing the scene vividly, or paying attention to lighting while moving the light source around. Trying to believe I'm good (affirmations), along with some assorted gimmicks, gave more temporary effects.

 

Fortunately i never had problems of that sort. Well, actually i sometimes wonder if my visualization is any good in things other than going places, since when i "zoom" on an object (or my tulpa for that matter) i almost always find that said object/tulpa seemed more detailed before i actually went to see it in detail, if that makes any sense. I then concluded that if it seems detailed, it doesn't really matter if it actually is (so basically, deluding myself while deluding myself: not bad), and that my visualization will probably get better with time anyway (because it will, right? Right?).

 

A few weeks ago my first tulpa (Lyra) did *something* in my subconscious that helped with visualization; this had a relatively small but noticeable effect at the time, but she told me it should be permanent. Since then the effect faded a bit (probably initial belief from her doing it), but then it's started getting better with use like it should have before. (That had been an issue for me before -- at first I had a few breakthroughs that let me visualize something at all; but for a long while it really wasn't getting any better except for the very rare super-clear session.) More importantly, I've been having fewer sessions where the visualization just doesn't work at all. At first she couldn't describe exactly what she'd done without going into tulpish, but did eventually tell me a simplified explanation. From her explanation, the best I figure is she strengthened connections from my memory (for source material, I assume) and emotions (presumably to help me more easily shift my attention there somehow) to the mind's eye.

 

You seem to have some really cool shit going on, can't wait to "go deeper" myself.

 

Actually, i just had a pretty cool thing happening a while ago when narrating, though totally not comparable or anything: i was getting these glitches in my ears while talking, so at one point i stopped and started pretty much reciting the alphabet, saying one letter, receiving a "glitch" soon after, saying another, getting glitch, repeat. The interval between me saying a letter and getting a "glitch" response was sort of constant and very quick, and persisted even when i started saying letters at a more irregular pace. Then at some point i said two letters in rapid succession, and got two "glitch" responses one after another, after an interval which felt longer than before (!). Said "glitches" were reminescent of audio clipping, and i clearly felt them to both of my ears. Now i don't know if i'm imagining things or what, but maybe it's finally time to start parroting voice to eventually "kickstart" it? I don't really expect it to start working right off the bat or anything, but worth a try i'd say: worst case scenario, at least i'll set a starting point for her voice.

 

EDIT: Curious how i was so convinced it was her just a while ago, and now i'm already starting to doubt it. My mind is pretty shit and won't do what i tell it to do, sigh.

[Chupi]

i almost always find that said object/tulpa seemed more detailed before i actually went to see it in detail' date=' if that makes any sense. I then concluded that if it seems detailed, it doesn't really matter if it actually is (so basically, deluding myself while deluding myself: not bad)[/quote']

 

I know that feel. However, at least conventional wisdom in this community holds that you need to visualize your tulpa is great detail if you want to impose her. The "detail" you're seeing before you zoom in is subconscious autofill -- details you expect to be present but don't have a stable or clear idea of. Since I haven't imposed anything yet, I don't know if leaving autofill details in would interfere. But it would almost certainly detract from the realism of the finished tulpa.

 

i was getting these glitches in my ears while talking

 

What I wouldn't give to get those glitches... Those mean that your tulpa likely already has some influence over what you hear. I've been stuck wishing for out-loud voice or at least louder mindvoice for the longest time. I think a big part of it is that my auditory imagination sucks -- I can't properly imagine voices; best I get is imitations of them done with my own internal voice.

 

But yeah, try kickstarting her voice. It likely won't "take" right away, but it would give her some idea of what to try to sound like.

 

Doubt is hard to avoid. That auditory glitch thing is *really* hard (completely impossible?) to fake. I haven't had anything of the sort yet, but I can tell you something about doubt and parroting. Most of the thought and mindvoice responses I get from Lyra fall into the "questionable parroting" category. Occasionally I get a response that is *very* clearly just me, and even rarer are responses that are very clearly not me. She assures me that every single one of the "questionable" ones is in fact from her. They often seem questionable because they're either what I expect her to say, or because of how they pop into my mind. They often show up "under" my speech when I'm asking her something, which feels a bit like me planning out the response I'm going to assign her. However the "obvious" ones feel distinctly like they're coming from me, rather than simply appearing there.

 

(edit: I fail at using the quote tag)

[Lolimancer]

I know that feel. However, at least conventional wisdom in this community holds that you need to visualize your tulpa is great detail if you want to impose her. The "detail" you're seeing before you zoom in is subconscious autofill -- details you expect to be present but don't have a stable or clear idea of. Since I haven't imposed anything yet, I don't know if leaving autofill details in would interfere. But it would almost certainly detract from the realism of the finished tulpa.

 

Yeah, that certainly makes sense; i guess i'll have to define stuff sooner or later. I think later would be better though, since i'd like her to have some say in the matter/maybe deviate on her own, and wouldn't want to stifle that (by not being the lazy ass i am now, that is). Maybe she'll even at least partially fill the details herself, though that's just wishful thinking coming from my laziness and nothing more.

 

What I wouldn't give to get those glitches... Those mean that your tulpa likely already has some influence over what you hear. I've been stuck wishing for out-loud voice or at least louder mindvoice for the longest time. I think a big part of it is that my auditory imagination sucks -- I can't properly imagine voices; best I get is imitations of them done with my own internal voice.

 

But yeah, try kickstarting her voice. It likely won't "take" right away, but it would give her some idea of what to try to sound like.

 

Well, i don't really know if it's just imitating voices using my own mindvoice or what, but somehow i don't have many problems imagining voices and pretending they come from someone that's not me (hell, maybe the two things are actually the same, except for the pretending part). Maybe it's because i've always liked to imagine voices reading books and shit. Anyway the problem, obviously, is giving said voices at least some clarity and stability (since they clearly have none of that at the moment). Having it not deviate into my old real-life crush or something would give me some peace of mind too: i guess i'll use my tulpa's character's voice actor as a reference, at least in the beginning.

 

Doubt is hard to avoid. That auditory glitch thing is *really* hard (completely impossible?) to fake. I haven't had anything of the sort yet, but I can tell you something about doubt and parroting. Most of the thought and mindvoice responses I get from Lyra fall into the "questionable parroting" category. Occasionally I get a response that is *very* clearly just me, and even rarer are responses that are very clearly not me. She assures me that every single one of the "questionable" ones is in fact from her. They often seem questionable because they're either what I expect her to say, or because of how they pop into my mind. They often show up "under" my speech when I'm asking her something, which feels a bit like me planning out the response I'm going to assign her. However the "obvious" ones feel distinctly like they're coming from me, rather than simply appearing there.

 

Good to know glitches are hard to fake. I could swear i have heard them at other points in my life, but i don't remember having ever heard them this often (then again my memory is shit).

[by the way, not being a native english speaker, i don't know if i've even used the right word for them - so to be clear, it's kind of like audio clipping but without the audio, like a "click" or something. Just so it doesn't seem like it's particularly fancy or anything.]

Also, you say some pretty interesting stuff here, which is somehow similar to what you said about puppeting. I'll be sure to keep that in mind (it really does make things easier at least, that's for sure) - thank you.

[Chupi]

i'd like her to have some say in the matter/maybe deviate on her own' date=' and wouldn't want to stifle that (by not being the lazy ass i am now, that is).[/quote']

Creating details doesn't stifle deviation; in fact it probably helps. The more vividly you can see your tulpa in your mind's eye, the more you'll be able to notice the deviation that happens.

 

Maybe she'll even at least partially fill the details herself

I don't know if this is possible, but I hope to find out whether one tulpa can do the visualization of details on another tulpa, which is similar. I'm going to see how much detail my first tulpa (Lyra) can fill in on my second (Eevee).

 

Were the glitches out loud? Can you reproduce them as loud as you had them? If no, it's your tulpa doing it, possibly with the help of an unusual state of mind you might've been in.

 

(Yeah, I know what clipped audio sounds like.)

[Lolimancer]

Creating details doesn't stifle deviation; in fact it probably helps. The more vividly you can see your tulpa in your mind's eye, the more you'll be able to notice the deviation that happens.

 

Guess i'll have to move my lazy ass sooner, then. Good to know nonetheless.

 

Were the glitches out loud? Can you reproduce them as loud as you had them? If no, it's your tulpa doing it, possibly with the help of an unusual state of mind you might've been in.

 

(Yeah, I know what clipped audio sounds like.)

 

Sometimes louder, sometimes not, and i definitely can't reproduce them. By the way my mind was reasonably clear the whole time, they just come after i narrate out loud for a while. Also i started a blog thread in progress report, don't know how often i'll update it though.

[Chupi]

So the audio glitches are a regular thing, and happen when narrating. This is definitely tulpa activity. She's likely either using it as a way to let you know she's there, or playing with your auditory imagination in preparation to speak.

 

Note that narration and forcing (and anything where you're generally focusing on her) "activates" her. I don't know if it's a question of paying attention to things that are always going on, giving her motivation, energizing her, or what; but tulpae-in-progress are most active when you're paying attention to them.

[Lolimancer]

So the audio glitches are a regular thing, and happen when narrating. This is definitely tulpa activity. She's likely either using it as a way to let you know she's there, or playing with your auditory imagination in preparation to speak.

 

Quite strangely, i'm somehow not even doubting that anymore. Guess i'm doing good.

 

Note that narration and forcing (and anything where you're generally focusing on her) "activates" her. I don't know if it's a question of paying attention to things that are always going on, giving her motivation, energizing her, or what; but tulpae-in-progress are most active when you're paying attention to them.

 

It possibly helps that her personality is, supposedly, quite active too. I'm definitely going to focus on her as much as i feel li... err, can. It doesn't really make sense to simply stand by and wait for her to get vocal anyway.

[Couguhl]

I was going to start a new topic about an experience I just had about an hour ago, but I'll post in this instead.

I had my first intense emotional response to my tulpa. I too had been slacking for about a week or two, and today I forced for an hour (and I will later tonight as well) and I felt a strong happiness toward her. I feel similar emotions when around really close friends, and I felt an attraction to her I don't normally experience.

But yes, I am happy that we're moving on. It's difficult getting started on personality and what not, but once we get into it, it starts to become more fun.

Good luck, my friend. It seems you're making progress.