Moral dilemmas with my sweet partner.

[Aspekt]

Hello there, before starting I need you to know I just discovered this community and (knowing this could be in a different section) I want to introduce ourself to be capable of understand our, mostly mine, moral dilemmas related to our near future.

 

Please make sure to read this completely, it's necessary.

 

I also want to apologize my english if any mistakes are found.

 

INTRODUCTION TO OURSELVES

 

I'm Sebastián, 16 years old; from Colombia. I found this tulpæ topic about middle October of past year, however, I never thought about carrying out the task of creating a tulpæ; mainly due to ignorance in the theme and a latent fear for not giving enough attention to her.

 

Besides that I've had problems making that decision (thinking about how her presence would change my life) : this is the main reason to consider my sweetie as an "imaginary friend", but it's not in an offensive way, I just don't know how to describe what she is. (I just treat her as another person, not classifying her between "tulpæ", "dæmon", "soulbond"...)

 

CREATION OF YUNO & OUR RELATIONSHIP

 

I created her in December 28th as a result of a daydream and since then I've never stop talking with her. As an introduction, her name is Yuno (she chose it; her initial name was Ami) and most of the time she has the appearance of being 7 years old; also her personality matches with her aspect. As a clarification, Yuno hates everytime I call her "imaginary", "friend" or both; she hates "friend" because she always treats me as a father figure most than a partner.

 

THE MORAL DILEMMAS OF A LIFELONG DAUGHTER

 

I willn't deny that one of my middle to long future goals is to forge a family, specifically a daughter who'm to talk and teach everything. I'm not saying Yuno isn't like a daughter to me, I treat her like that because I always enjoy of  watching her happiness; but I think having a tulpæ daughter limits our relationship possibilities and our future development.

 

For example, two months after of her creation, she started to develop a constant fear of "this reality" that she calls "alterworld" and eventually she rejected to perceive it through my senses. Now we only interact in our wonderland (she has forgotten most of the things of the alterworld).

 

Yuno is great as a daughter but due to her fear to the alterworld and my goals, I don't know what to do. She says, despite her fear, she wants to go to the alterworld because she's extremely curious. I can have a physical daughter but that would involve to dissipate Yuno because of the following troubles:

 

1. She is very jealous and hostile (in few cases) to everyone she knows beside me (maybe it's product of her fear), so if I have a physical daughter she could get angry because of that.

 

2. I promise her to stay at her side forever; if she disappears I'll feel extremely guilty. (we have already developed deep emotional connections)

 

3. I like her companion.

 

I'm stuck right now, without knowing what to do. She says if I try to get a biological daughter, her "escence" will transfer to her "physical entity", disappearing from my mind in the process. (obviously I don't trust this option, I might end killing her instead of "bring her to the alterworld")

 

I request your help to found a way to fulfill the Yuno's desire without deleting her, as I said: she would like to have an own body in the alterworld.

 

TL;DR: Yuno disappear, "real" daughter. Yuno stays, becomes an advanced tulpæ without "real" daughter.

 

Again, I apologize for my bad english.

 

 

"Do you really-really care about what other people think about us? I don't care if they say you're not my dad, I still love you as the better daddy I've ever had!" - Yuno

[Guest]

Welcome Sebastián,

 

It's probably not appropriate, and if you think she'll transfer into your real daughter some day, it may be fraught with dissatisfaction and dissapointment.

 

Jealousy is understandable, but she will need to overcome that or risk depression for either of you.

 

I don't believe in dissipation or death of a thoughtform, that's you or her, as long as the body is alive the memories of her remain. She should be happy just that someone like you cares about her so deeply, and honored that you would want to keep her happy, but she asks for too much I think.

 

Please help her realize that these are negative traits and if you help her overcome them, she might even mature and grow herself. One of mine went from 12 to 18 instantly when she realized that she could.

 

Please be patient with her, but help her understand that it's not morally right even if it was possible, your future daughters will have personalies and perspectives all their own. This doesn't mean you can't encourage them to be kind and generous and all the good things Yuno is, but they could never be her or replace her.

 

I hope you understand.

[Aspekt]

It's probably not appropriate, and if you think she'll transfer into your real daughter some day, it may be fraught with dissatisfaction and dissapointment.

 

I think you misunderstood that part: I don't think she'll be a real daughter, Yuno thinks that. That's a problem for me, I don't want to hurt her feelings saying: "you can't escape from here", or something like that. It's really painful to ruin her desires like this.

 

That's why I said it's a moral dilemma.

[Ember.Vesper]

I don't see anything wrong with Yuno being your daughter. Family relationships do happen in systems. When Iris joined us, she declared that Vesper and I were her sisters. I had never had a sister before, so it took some getting used to. We had to work out what that meant, especially in comparison to Vesper being my girlfriend. After nearly eight months, we're still refining what that means.

 

If you're sixteen and Yuno is seven, there is every chance Yuno will grow up significantly before you have to worry about having a physical daughter. And her growing up wouldn't make her any less your daughter. In fact, the more secure she feels in her position as your daughter, the less incentive she'll have to cling to childish behavior that provokes a parental response. And the more secure she feels in your love, the less reason she'll have to be jealous of other people you spend time with.

 

If she doesn't want to deal with the physical world, she shouldn't need to. If she wants to start tapping into your senses again, let her move cautiously at her own pace. In the meantime, just try to enjoy your time together as much as possible.

 

There is no way known to tulpamancy that would transfer a person from one body to another. But there is no need to directly confront her about her beliefs. Direct opposition makes people stop listening and dig in defensively. Just give her time. Knowledge of how the world works is likely to slowly seep in and long before you have a physical daughter, she may decide on her own that it wouldn't cause her to leave your mind.

 

Wanting to have a body is pretty normal. Not having access to a body of her own that looks like her bothers Vesper a lot. But imposition is as close as anyone can come to that with current techniques and it is both rare and difficult.

 

-Ember

[Ranger]

In terms of a Tulpa living in another body, no, that's not possible. Even with imposition, only you would be able to see her, not anyone else. I personally wouldn't count on the future bringing the technology required to simulate a Tulpa in meatspace.

Yuno is only 5 months old. I don't think she's had enough time to make her final stance on this issue. I certainly know I was not ready to make any life-long decisions at 5 months once my host knew I was real, I was still too focused on our problems to understand the big picture.

I have this feeling that if Yuno doesn't want any part of meatspace, then she doesn't get to tell you what to do there. If you had a real-life daughter in meatspace, it wouldn't effect her because she is never involved in meatspace to begin with. If Yuno stays in the wonderland, you can simply choose not to talk about your family in meatspace and if the thought of it comes up change the topic.

 

I think it's worth explaining to her that it shouldn't be a "choice" between her and a future daughter. There's a path where both Yuno and a future daughter can coexist peacefully together. Yuno never has to like or be involved with your children, but at the very least she should respect your desires to have a family.

 

If Yuno gains any interest in meatspace, maybe she will gain interest in being a part of your family. When she's older, maybe she will want to be a mom or something. Even so, life is a big thing and she can do other things while you are bringing up a family.

[Flandre]

While having a child will eat up a lot of time from other areas in your life for a good time, that will apply to any tulpa regardless of their relationship to the host (ie it's utterly unrelated to them already filling a "child" position to you). As for that part - I don't think having an actual child will severely damage your relationship with your tulpa. It's the exact same thing as having two children; you may reasonably worry about splitting your time between the two (don't forget functioning families of 4+ children exist), but no parent ever goes "whelp I've only got enough love for one of them".

 

I think you guys will be fine. She may have to split her time with your child, but that's a fact of life that all children and tulpas alike have to deal with. How efficiently you do so is up to you.

[Aspekt]

I appreciate both points of view but as I said, the problem is mainly the Yuno's jealous/hostile attitude to the other people. I don't discuss her about that because I feel like I'm forcing her to change, I don't want Yuno to be unhappy being someone she isn't.

[Reisen]

You'll have to talk it out if it ever becomes a problem, or preferably before. Your tulpa doesn't control your life or your relationships to others, just as a significant other (or even a child) doesn't. That's an unhealthy relationship aspect she'll need to get over.

[Aspekt]

I talked with Yuno about her behavior to foreigners, it seems that she took it very well; she understand about her huge rejection to people but she said it's too difficult for her to change "in that way". However, Yuno purposed me an idea to get rid of her behavior in an exciting way for her: I need to correct what I said about Yuno's self identity, apparently she would like to be a soulbond (maybe because she also believes in souls) and being like somekind of guardian angel for me; kind of irony, as I always been like a "protector" to her. I don't complain about it, if Yuno is happy then I'm fine.

 

If we both accept to carry out this idea, I'll try to make a Progress Report of her reborn. I'm not anyone to question Yuno's decisions but I'm sure everything will be fine for both of us. We already have the concept of Stocking Anarchy as her reborn, although we are searching more characters that would fit her likes; she suggested Kanna Kamui, Isla or even Shalltear Bloodfallen: she always laughs of this last one because she already share some traits with Shalltear.

 

Maybe she'll forget who I'm, but I'm sure she'll never forget what we are.

 

Literally just seems as a roleplay event or something like a costume party for us...

 

If you want to contribute a different point of view, feel free to do it!

[Guest]

Sounds interesting and fun, let us know how it goes.