Drawing vs Visualisation

[Melete]

Hey everyone. Some of you might know that I study A-level Art and that I'm applying to study Fine Art at university next year. For those of you who don't - well, you know now. When I started forming my tulpa Arete a few weeks ago, I tried drawing him to determine his appearance speed up the visualisation process.

 

Showing people my drawings of Arete on the IRC began a slight controversy. One of you suggested that being able to draw well should make visualisation easier. Another said that it should make absolutely no difference.

 

Here's my case for each side:

• Drawing well may make a difference because when you draw from imagination, you are translating a concept into a tangible image. Artistically-minded individuals possess the creativity and imagination necessary to tulpaforce effectively. Someone with a good understanding of space, anatomy and proportion (as you acquire when you learn to draw) should also be good at accurate imposition because it gives you a better idea of how people should look and interact with their environment.
  
• However, it can also be argued that there is no link between drawing and visualisation (or imposition). This is because they are two fundamentally different processes. Both require creativity and imagination - but so does advanced mathematics. You might even argue that they both require good spatial reasoning - but then, so does geometry. It doesn't mean that someone with a degree in maths would necessarily be a good draftsman.
  Visualisation works by imagining a three-dimensional form over a long period of time, whereas drawing is fundamentally the translation of a three-dimensional object into a two-dimensional representation. Even when you're drawing from imagination, what you're actually doing is recreating your understanding of real objects that you've acquired from observation, and becomes a translation of an amalgamation of three-dimensional objects on a flat plane. Visualisation, if anything, is more like sculpting - but it depends far more on sheer imagination than memory and calculation.
  

 

What are your thoughts? Is there a link? What kind of link? Does it make a difference?

[Kadoh]

I'd say that being able to put a concrete reference onto paper would help, as you would be really focusing on every aspect of the tulpa. But, I can visualize my Tulpae very effectively, and I am shit at drawing. I can appreciate art, like that picture of Arête you drew (very good, ever thought about taking requests?) but not stupid shit, like I see at art houses a lot. Anyway, one could argue that art is not confined to drawing/painting, for example written work like stories or poetry. I am talented in those things, even though I hate poetry that is pseudo-meaningful. So one with an "artistic mind" could suck at drawing but be an amazing musician. It all depends on what you deem a masterpiece

 

tl;dr, it could help with having a reference of your tulpa's form, maybe not.

[Sands]

Eh, what do I know about what you derps keep arguing about, but all I know is what I did and how it helped. I drew some sketches of Roswell before I started truly working on the form, mostly a turntable to really get down his features and shapes. I had more time to work with the lines (and undo!), not to mention something very well visible to my physical eyes. If I was feeling lost or I was losing it, I could imagine the drawings I made and everything was good again. I might've been good at daydreaming in general, but making a form and focusing on it and seeing it well did take some time getting used to, not to mention I'm a person who pretty much ignores the faces of people so there is no way for me to tell who someone is by seeing their faces, but that's another story.

 

Of course he's a bit different now, but I doubt I would have his form down as good unless I had the sketches in my mind to help me.

[Lolimancer]

I would think having a good imagination definitely helps, but drawing and visualizing are different. Actually, in order to be able to draw you have to be able to visualize in the first place; same for writing descriptions to a story, though maybe descriptions work on a more "conceptual", less detailed visualization than drawing requires. Music is probably another thing entirely, a different kind of imagination. That's my theory, at least: i suck at drawing, i write decently, i play music slightly less decently, so i might not be that well-versed in the matter (by the way, the reason i don't write "decently" in English is because i'm well, not an American pig a 外人).

 

Aanyway. Having a reference for the form could be good. What i did:

1) Acquire visual novel

2) Extract CG/sprites of the character i was trying to make

3) Stare at said CG/sprites

4) Visualization!

Had her as the desktop wallpaper for a while, too. Also tried to sketch the reference material, did like shit but i think that helped too - forcing your mind to form a more detailed image of what you're trying to visualize is always good.

[Melete]

I'd say that being able to put a concrete reference onto paper would help, as you would be really focusing on every aspect of the tulpa. But, I can visualize my Tulpae very effectively, and I am shit at drawing. I can appreciate art, like that picture of Arête you drew (very good, ever thought about taking requests?) but not stupid shit, like I see at art houses a lot. Anyway, one could argue that art is not confined to drawing/painting, for example written work like stories or poetry. I am talented in those things, even though I hate poetry that is pseudo-meaningful. So one with an "artistic mind" could suck at drawing but be an amazing musician. It all depends on what you deem a masterpiece

 

tl;dr, it could help with having a reference of your tulpa's form, maybe not.

Indeed. As a reference, it helps you solidify your tulpa's appearance. Drawing is a decision-making process - when you draw, you are forced to determine factors such as the shape of their jaw, the length of their nose and the fold of their eyelids that you wouldn't necessarily normally consider when visualising, ignoring them in lieu of more obvious aspects of their appearance such as their hairstyle and eye colour.

 

The question was whether drawing could help people visualise a tulpa, rather than whether visualising a tulpa could improve your drawing. After all, visualisation is somewhat a part of the drawing process, but there are many other skills involved in drawing also.

 

Also, I was referring specifically to those who draw. Naturally, music, poetry and installation art, whilst all equally valid, require very different skills to drawing.

 

Regarding requests, thank you - if someone posts a thread requesting a sketch of their tulpa, I might decided to fill it. However, I wouldn't be able to keep up with a request thread; I'd rather save the disappointment. In any case, it's impossible for me to provide an accurate rendition of someone's tulpa as I have no reference to observe from.

 

Eh, what do I know about what you derps keep arguing about, but all I know is what I did and how it helped. I drew some sketches of Roswell before I started truly working on the form, mostly a turntable to really get down his features and shapes. I had more time to work with the lines (and undo!), not to mention something very well visible to my physical eyes. If I was feeling lost or I was losing it, I could imagine the drawings I made and everything was good again. I might've been good at daydreaming in general, but making a form and focusing on it and seeing it well did take some time getting used to, not to mention I'm a person who pretty much ignores the faces of people so there is no way for me to tell who someone is by seeing their faces, but that's another story.

 

Of course he's a bit different now, but I doubt I would have his form down as good unless I had the sketches in my mind to help me.

 

That's interesting, and a very good point. Regardless of the actual link between drawing and visualisation as skills, it does seem that drawing your tulpa helps you to determine their form and use your drawings as a basis for visualisation.

[TulpaCouple]

I can say in my experience...drawing him early on before I had grasped his proper shape didn't help me much. Of course his constant deviation may also have been to blame. But regardless, those early drawing times didn't help me see him any better. However, later on when his form was known and I could visualize him well, drawing him helped me incredibly. Especially when it came down to faces. If I could draw his expression, I could then see it on his face.

 

But no matter when I was drawing him or how good or bad the drawing came out, I was still drawing him. Putting intense devotion and concentration on him as I created something physical on the paper. It became a habit to doodle him throughout the day, meaning I remembered to think about him all those times--and all the times I later looked at those drawings. It became a way to force--as I was also visualizing him in my head and narrating to him as I drew. A much easier method of forcing if you have parents who tend to walk in on you.

 

So I would say regardless of how it connects with your visialization skills, and no matter how good at it you are, the act of drawing itself can greatly help the tulpaforcing process.

[FigN01]

I expected that being able to draw well would help me from the start, and to some degree I was right. I drew my tulpa, pictured in the avatar), and I will occasionally think about it when I'm visualizing or imposing because it helps me remember proportions and color. It is definitely an asset.

 

However, imagining Uzo in three-dimensional space is not the same. If I was to sculpt or model him digitally, doing so would translate much, much better into his real form, but the 2-d representation can only go so far. Factor in my own style that may not be true to life such as big cartoony eyes and some small details I've struggled with, and I find that I can never draw him perfectly. I can only come so close, and some of those inaccuracies may obscure my mental picture too.

 

But I still say drawing helps. It doesn't give me an idea of how my tulpa moves or behaves, but if nothing else, it gives me a foundation to work from. I just have to pool together other skills as well, especially[/] visualizing in 3-d space and visualizing his body in motion.

[Melete]

I expected that being able to draw well would help me from the start, and to some degree I was right. I drew my tulpa, pictured in the avatar), and I will occasionally think about it when I'm visualizing or imposing because it helps me remember proportions and color. It is definitely an asset.

 

However, imagining Uzo in three-dimensional space is not the same. If I was to sculpt or model him digitally, doing so would translate much, much better into his real form, but the 2-d representation can only go so far. Factor in my own style that may not be true to life such as big cartoony eyes and some small details I've struggled with, and I find that I can never draw him perfectly. I can only come so close, and some of those inaccuracies may obscure my mental picture too.

 

But I still say drawing helps. It doesn't give me an idea of how my tulpa moves or behaves, but if nothing else, it gives me a foundation to work from. I just have to pool together other skills as well, especially[/] visualizing in 3-d space and visualizing his body in motion.

 

Part of the reason why you might find it difficult to visualise three dimensions from your drawing is due to the style of your drawing. A linear drawing in that style is not conducive to the visualisation of form. Aim to produce tonal studies - that is, drawings consisting purely of 'shading' without using any lines - and you will gain a firmer grasp of form.

 

This is why I produced oil pastel studies of Arete in as realistic a style I could muster without a physical reference (I'll produce more realistic drawings after he is fully imposed). The use of colour is also an aid to the visualisation of colour. I think that the cartoonish, black-and-white, anime-style drawings that dominate the community here are not conducive to the accurate visualisation of three dimensional forms, especially when no understanding of quality-of-line is demonstrated in these drawings.

[konrad13]

Ive started taking various pictures of characters whose physical traits are close to what I want Koharu to look like and have started (very poorly) just mixing them together, mostly just hair and eyes color... It seems to be working...