Does Every tulpa likes/Loves possession?

[FallFamily]

 

My tulpas generally see/hear what I see/hear etc., they just take no responsibility for it. I'd sooner say they reside in my mind than my wonderland. The only times they have their own senses are when wonderlanding, or when imposed.. OR when switched.

As such, when switching, I still know what my body's sensing perfectly fine, just as they would. I'm just not the one in control anymore, nor am I really the one thinking - like I said, I'm in the same position my tulpas normally are while the tulpa is in mine, ie. controlling the body and mind.

 

Is that different than what you consider switching? Or is that just a matter of complete-access-to-all-senses-and-thoughts versus.. not. I forget that a lot of tulpas aren't so meshed with their hosts. That might explain why possession seems relatively pointless to me (other than being a good tulpa exercise) as opposed to switching, where they can take responsibility for all actions and thoughts that I normally would. If it makes this any more clear/confusing, Reisen has actually imposed tulpa-me while switched before.. It's a bit awkward since she's still in my body so we don't really do it any more, but hey, gotta try everything once.

 

I think I might've mixed possession and switching into my own personal experience. Hmm.

 

What you are describing is called full-body possession around here generally. In the multiple-community, some would call it switching and some would call it co-fronting.

 

I guess other parts of the community muddle the terminology a bit. I've also seen possession referred to as co-fronting, but I believe this latter term is also misused and has its own definition which is not the same as possession.

 

Possession is a form of co-fronting. Co-fronting has many other forms. After all, it is just having more than one consciousness attached to the body (this is more than just passively perceiving the senses).

 

Of course, all of these distinctions get really muddled when two consciousnesses get blended together.

 

- Hail

[Luminesce]

Huh. I wrote a reply like... seven hours ago? And got distracted and didn't realize I didn't post it. Hi Hail.

 

"If that's the case switching is impossible for me and my possession is much more involved than most peoples'.

Really though. My tulpas aren't removed from my senses per se, so it wouldn't make sense if I were while switched either. I don't react to them though, if that's what you mean. There's a dissociation where I'm aware of the feelings but they don't really feel like mine. When switched, my senses are to me like they are to my tulpas now.

 

And since my tulpa is in control of my conscious mind while switching, I can't possibly imagine what "true" switching entails. I think this is just a case of natural vs. guided development of methods."

 

I guess you guys call it full-body possession. To me possession never entailed control of the mind or responsibility for actions outside of the parts of body involved. It just makes sense that relinquishing control of my mind/body and giving it to one of my tulpas would be "switching", as I'm completely removed from my body's function aside from talking in mindvoice, like my tulpas. I'm not in control while my tulpa controls my body, they are. They actually move/act differently than me, too. Mostly though I'd call it switching due to the mental aspect - they're the ones thinking, not me. I think sort of subconsciously like them, just enough to voice myself in my head. My brain's thoughts aren't provoked by me, but by my tulpa.

 

I honestly think the difference is the lack of mental barriers between my tulpas and I - memory/sense loss would make no sense while switched. My tulpas are completely aware of everything I do and think, always. There's a certain lack of discernment due to that on whether it's really switching or not, but all that really matters is that it feels real to us. Evidence too, Flandre's a better dancer and Tewi types, formulates thoughts, and figures out puzzles faster than me.

 

 

Anyways.. on topic-er. My tulpas generally enjoy posswitchssion because it gives them a chance to use my body's senses and thoughts themselves. Just wish there were more situations where it was appropriate to do.

[TheSanctuary]

I would love to see the effect switching had on a polygraph machine - ie switching mid-check ^^;

[Twice Sparked]

more words

 

Uh, I think you missed the point. Sure, you can call anything by any name if you don't care about being understood. We're just telling you what the definition is.

 

And your experience of possession as "giving up the mind" or whatever language you want to use is actually pretty common.

[hbenton]

I would love to see the effect switching had on a polygraph machine - ie switching mid-check ^^;

 

Probably jack shit. A polygraph is a tool that measures "blood pressure, pulse, respiration, and skin conductivity". It's also incredibly easy to fool by merely thinking exciting and/or complex thoughts (like, say, mental arithmetic, which I can verify first-hand). Because it does not actually detect whether a person is lying, but rather a person's reaction to the question, it is about as good as discovering the truth as Tasseography (reading tea leaves). It is best applied as a tool to elicit a confession from someone, usually by convincing them that it's pointless to lie since they're hooked up to a device they've been told can detect lying with incredible accuracy -- in other words, the tester spooks the testee into admitting wrongdoing. The polygraph would lose a lot of its power if the testee had any information as to the flaws of the device, namely that it does not actually detect lies.

 

It would be better to use a device that measures brain waves or other brain-related activity, in my opinion.

[nihi0145632]

I just want to clear up guys..

 

So does Co-fronting means that you and your tulpa share the same senses when they are in control? I mean Summer and cherry are really part of me now.. And they can move or control the body easily.. and unlike possession the movements doesn't feel very alien but i know they sometimes or most of the time control of it especially summer. It's like we're sharing the same thoughts altogether. Like when they control my mouth the can have the sense of taste, and i can taste the food as well and what i see they also can see, Is that considered as possession or a different term?

 

I understand possession as controling parts of the body..

[lurkatron9200]

^^

There's a number of terms. co-fronting, sense sharing, eclipsing. There's a little discussion here that you might be interested in. Also see the 'mutual possession' thread in the rejected guides area. Personal advice, try not to get overly hung up on terminologies and just enjoy your experiences for what they are.

[Luminesce]

Sure, you can call anything by any name if you don't care about being understood. We're just telling you what the definition is.

 

I'm not saying I want to call it something in particular, rather I was somewhat indirectly asking if what I did was really only possession and not switching.

 

And you seem adamant, so unless you weren't paying attention or something, the only difference between possession and switching is unconsciousness/amnesia? That doesn't make sense to me. I have a decent idea of how my mind works, and to do that would just require the belief that I'd be disconnected from my senses while doing it. Nothing important really changes other than "my" awareness.

 

On the other hand, if that's not true, then I'm very interested in hearing what constitutes actual switching, with the host remaining "conscious" - at least as much so as their own tulpas. My tulpas aren't clueless to what's going on while I'm living. They're just as aware of my senses and thoughts as I am, as they developed naturally (didn't know what tulpas were etc. etc.) without borders between their thoughts and mine. So if I were unable to be relatively aware while switching with one of my tulpas, that would mean I were in a lower place than my tulpas themselves. And that doesn't make sense to me.

 

I think the problem is just a lack of clarity in describing what I called switching, and there's some misconception because of that. I can't comprehend what would be switching if this isn't - unless a requirement of that term is not being aware of what your tulpa is doing. At which point I don't really care, because that would mean creating a mental block to conform to someone else's definition.

 

Yeah, definitely a misconception. Arguing over misconceptions is one of my least favorite things in the world, so maybe I shouldn't do that.

[HazyM]

I can't comprehend what would be switching if this isn't - unless a requirement of that term is not being aware of what your tulpa is doing.

I believe that deeper dissociation from body senses is indeed considered to be the thing that separates switching and regular full-body possession. IIRC, there was a picture by Sands that illustrates how possession transits into switching corresponding to dissociation.

[Twice Sparked]

words words words

 

Adamant? Not particularly. Maybe a review will help.

 

You asked,

 

What's so special about possession anyway?

 

So Sands answered,

 

Possession is when a tulpa is in control of the body or a certain body part if they have chosen not to possess the entire body and the host watches from the back seat. Switching for the tulpa is exactly the same, but the host ignores their physical senses so they no longer sense what the physical body does. They don't see what they eyes see, hear what the ears hear etc. Instead they take on imaginary senses which are perceived as vivid as reality.

 

And when there seemed to be a further misunderstanding, I attempted to clarify.

 

Now I believe I see from where the confusion is coming. You seem to have combined an intuitive sense of the definition of switching with the actual definition. Indeed, taken colloquially switching is loosely described as an exchange in the perspective of the host with that of the tulpa. I believe you expressed that here:

 

My tulpas generally see/hear what I see/hear etc., they just take no responsibility for it. I'd sooner say they reside in my mind than my wonderland. The only times they have their own senses are when wonderlanding, or when imposed.. OR when switched.

 

In which the implication is that you and your tulpas share perspective unless they are in the wonderland or imposed. The "or when switched" part doesn't fall into this category because you mentioned that you're still aware of your senses just as they are, so there is still sharing of perspective here. Or as you put it in the following sentence:

 

As such, when switching, I still know what my body's sensing perfectly fine, just as they would.

 

I think you express the actual definition pretty well when you say:

 

Is that different than what you consider switching? Or is that just a matter of complete-access-to-all-senses... versus.. not

 

I clipped the quote at "senses" because this points to the definition, and it is also the point upon which Sands and I posited the difference between possession and switching.

 

Do you see the difference? Whereas the colloquial definition focuses on the perspective of the tulpa vs that of the host, we've made no such distinction. Yeah, I don't think it's uncommon for tulpas and hosts to share perspective, especially when the tulpas are young, but switching enters into the picture when

 

...the host ignores their physical senses so they no longer sense what the physical body does. They don't see what they eyes see, hear what the ears hear etc. Instead they take on imaginary senses which are perceived as vivid as reality.

 

I understand the temptation to view switching by the first definition, but, as I think we can see from this conversation, it's so vague that it can't help but produce misunderstandings. This is what I mean when I say:

 

Sure, you can call anything by any name if you don't care about being understood. We're just telling you what the definition is.

 

To further flesh this point out, I'll turn to your most recent post. In it you say:

 

On the other hand, if that's not true, then I'm very interested in hearing what constitutes actual switching, with the host remaining "conscious" - at least as much so as their own tulpas. My tulpas aren't clueless to what's going on while I'm living. They're just as aware of my senses and thoughts as I am, as they developed naturally (didn't know what tulpas were etc. etc.) without borders between their thoughts and mine. So if I were unable to be relatively aware while switching with one of my tulpas, that would mean I were in a lower place than my tulpas themselves. And that doesn't make sense to me.

 

This comes after you ruled out the actual definition, and is the colloquial definition as given here insofar as in it you take switching to be an exchange in perspective. Of course it doesn't make sense to you; you're taking the definition of switching to be an exchange of perspective, so you figure you will just see things as they do when you're not engaged because that's how they see the world when they're not engaged.

 

But this kind of misunderstanding is precisely the reason why the colloquial definition is not the actual definition. Definition means a demarcation of conceptual content, but the colloquial definition is too vague and doesn't introduce this demarcation with respect to other states of consciousness, most notably possession. The actual definition, however, does.

 

So, indeed, possession would seem unnecessary to you in the face of switching; incorrect definition means you didn't grasp what other users meant when they made the distinction between these two states, and they became quite confused in your mind. My attempt here has been only to help you understand this difference so as to answer your original inquiry. I hope I've succeeded.

 

Oh, also,

 

I think the problem is just a lack of clarity in describing what I called switching, and there's some misconception because of that. I can't comprehend what would be switching if this isn't - unless a requirement of that term is not being aware of what your tulpa is doing. At which point I don't really care, because that would mean creating a mental block to conform to someone else's definition.

 

To what extent switching involves a "mental block" I can't say because the term is vague, but this has nothing to do with conforming to someone else's definition as though we were trying to impose our views upon you. You asked a question which arose from a misunderstanding of definition, so we answered by clarifying the definition. Try not to take things so personally.