One Huge Troll™

[Dee]

So I read through the thread and was formulating a mass of text to cover the points no one but me seems to cover, and then I saw it end with Linkzelda's textwall and was like, oh. Got beaten to it.

 

But nope, not even what I was gonna say. On that particular topic really quick.. For those rare cases where something isn't just creepypasta or BS, the person has convinced themselves their tulpa(s) wants to and will hurt them, that they are incapable of controlling their mind/their tulpa has greater control, and that they don't want it to happen even though subconsciously they do. I have a hard time sympathizing with people with such weak minds; you WANT to be abused by your tulpa if you are. You can't hide behind your supposed morals saying "harm is bad, I don't want to be hurt" if you're telling your brain to harm you. You're just weak minded. (Which I suppose I should sympathize with, it just hurts my faith in humanity is all)

 

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. You're mistakening difference for weakness, I'd say in most cases the person in question wants a challenge more than they want to actually get hurt; for example mountain climbers: there are plenty of easy ways to get to a mountain-top, they could just take a helicopter and be done with it, but instead they choose the tormenting way that freezes their fingers, forces them to eat shitty food, sleep in shitty tents that ruin their backs and put their lives in risk. They don't do it because their goal is to risk their lives, they could just play Russian Roulette if they wanted to do that, they do it because mountain climbing is a challenging sport that makes them give their best shot at survival and requires determination to achieve their goals, at a potentially very high cost. Are these people weak minded? I doubt it. Likewise, people who end up with "harmful" tulpas might be looking for sort of an inner challenge; they want to test how well they can handle a threat that stems within them and knows everything about them and who they are, just because of how difficult and challenging that sounds.

 

That was actually pretty harsh compared to my usual thoughts on a subject, so I'll let Linkzelda's post cover that topic. I'm more interested in this "Are tulpas even real?" question people seem to think is a legitimate question. The fact that you all find it so legitimate in fact is why I'm interested in it. People say they don't think tulpas are supernatural and agree they're constructs of their mind of some form.. But if that's true, why don't they understand that tulpas are completely, one hundred percent "real"? The definition of real here is a real problem.

 

Are you implying it's an illegitimate question? Should we accept an unproven concept that sounds like it contradicts any rule of logic we know as a fact, especially when a relatively very large percentage of this community is also known as some of the most roleplaying-oriented people out there

I mean MLP folks

(which isn't necessarily a bad thing, my point is that it raises legitimate suspicion in regards to the validity of the subject)? Of course that's not all there is to it, and the anecdotes we have make it a whole different story, but you striking something as reasonable as what is at the end of a day just healthy doubt off as illegitimate kinda makes me lose my faith in humanity.

 

A tulpa is "real" when you recognize it as a tulpa; sentient and separate from your direct intention and control. Not to say you can't control them (though you may not want to), just that they can act by what's considered their own volition. When you create a tulpa, you're teaching your mind to work in a new way. You're teaching it to, in the context of this "tulpa" you're creating, run all of its thoughts, actions, etc. off of a new set of beliefs, morals and personality. You're creating a new persona "profile" in your head with which to apply thoughts to in your mind. A tulpa is considered sentient when that persona is complete enough that thoughts can be attributed to its set of beliefs, personality etc. rather than yours. (In fact, I experimented with a duplicate of myself as a tulpa, and it was nearly perfectly sentient and vocal from creation - because my mind already knew how to "run" that persona)

 

That's not how you determine whether something is real or not. A rock is very real, yet you don't see any sentient rocks walking about do you? I don't think the main point here is that they don't exist, but rather that there is some doubt to be had when it comes to the question of whether their sentience is real or not. You're assuming that because a tulpa can speak and has opinions it automatically means they're sentient rather than acting according to their "programming". Don't forget most people for a very long time either describe exactly their behavior patterns to them until their subconcious understands it deeply enough to enact it or let their subconcious figure out what behavior patterns it wants on their own until it understands it deeply enough to enact them. There's nothing here that inherently means sentience, but rather the complexity of the human mind. I should mention I haven't really made up my opinion on the whole sentience business, and while leaning more towards the stance that they are sentient, I can't really accept your point there as "proof" that it's more likely they are sentient.

 

But it takes a very, very healthy skeptic to figure these things out and then actually accept them and move on. I don't treat my tulpas like they don't really exist as more than neural connections in my brain, because they're not. They're fully fleshed out personas completely capable of functioning as a human being, minus the body part. There is nothing "real" or "fake" about them - they simply exist. Reisen, Tewi and Flandre all have their own personalities, beliefs, morals, and a lot more complicated in-depth purposes and typical functions in my mind. And I love them, as tulpas, because of my inherent belief that love is desirable in all its forms, including loving yourself. Our relationships became much stronger when I realized what my tulpas really were, and what my relationship to them was.

 

Of course you do, you programmed them to be beliveable enough with the help of your very subconcious which understands what you believe and don't believe more than your concious mind ever will, how the hell can you see a very convincing act as sentience with such certainty? You could use some healthy skepticism yourself. Stop accepting your opinions as facts and dismissing those who do have some very rational doubts as unhealthy, it's absolutely senseless.

 

So again. They're "real", but I don't believe in the word real in this context. My brain is capable of separating thoughts, wants, even mindsets and ways of thinking based on which persona they're coming from - the default "me" or one of my tulpas. I don't see them as a system of thoughts any more than I see myself that way; they're as real as I am, or any other human I know for that matter.

 

This is all my own personal experience and beliefs, but I'm willing to share it because I apply skepticism and the scientific method whenever working with my own beliefs to make sure they're in line with reality, in said scientific sense. I do this because I feel insecure working any other way - I can't accept things I don't understand, unless I'm doing so to make observations on their effects and validity. Because scientific sense or not, there are no right answers to life, everything's subjective. So I consider looking for the beliefs that best fit you the right answer, and since I do so with logic I believe I can share them with others and get... some kind of agreement. It's okay if you choose to discredit the way I do things in stead of your own. I just had to make this post because skeptic is my trigger word.

 

I'm not discrediting the way you do things, I'm simply saying that to me it seems just a bit unreasonable to simply dismiss any doubt a person might have as either unhealthy or irrational just because your subjective experience might possibly suggest some likelyhood of different anecdotes that suggest otherwise. And it's okay if you choose to discredit that.

 

By the way, at first I instantly saw you as a troll, then I saw you asking somewhat legitimate questions and got some faith, and then I saw

And accepted this thread for what it was. Whether you're truly curious (seems like you're trolling via providing legitimate arguments/questions, meaning others will be able to take away value from this whether or not you do) and playing the devil's advocate, or just putting a lot of effort into trolling, I appreciate the skepticism. 'Cus I've wanted to make this post for a long time.

 

Glad you appreciate it. I don't know why you see anything that isn't worded in a way that's 100% serious as illegitimate, I was honestly interested in what sushi was saying about the Tibetans having tulpas way back before any of us knew what that even means, even if my phrasing was a bit more casual. Again, you're accepting things as either black or white too much; "if this isn't 100% the way I think it should be then it must be a troll", and a while I always appreciate some healthy doubt it seems like you choose to just ignore any doubt that may be on other people's minds in favor of self reassurance.

[Luminesce]

*Holy crap, putting a ton of quotes in your post takes A TON OF SPACE. This isn't as much as it looks like, I promise.

 

**Oops, you just now posted a response to my previous one. I'll read it after I post this, it's too big already.

 

***Nope I read the first few things, looks like you disagreed with me a bit a lot. I spent a decent amount of effort writing this so I'm posting it anyways, but I guess I should warn you not to take my "You should do this, for your sake" too seriously. Everything I say is just what I believe, and just because I believe it wholeheartedly does not mean I expect everyone to immediately accept it. Rather, by showing how sure I am, I hope to make you and anyone reading seriously think about it. Sound wrong? WHY is it wrong, if I'm so insistent? And if you answer that, then I'm very happy. On with the probably-partially-obsolete post.

 

****... Tulpa.info lagged out when I tried to post this, thank humanity for ctrl+a ctrl+c. This post is so old now I barely even want to post it, but I've gone through so much dangit.

 

 

So when your tulpas speak, it's like your mindvoice is speaking on its own? That should make it distinguishable enough, I guess.

There might be a bit of an "automatic" feeling, but I've described it before as rather feeling as if the thought isn't yours. It came from your brain, but it feels like someone else - your tulpa - made it up. Later on you learn to distinguish thoughts pretty quickly because your brain learns to apply the context of your tulpa to their thoughts.

 

So I guess I should just give him a voice as different from mine as possible to make it easier? Sounds easy enough.

I wouldn't choose their voice based on being not-yours. As far as I know three tulpas could each have your exact voice and, being developed enough, shouldn't be hard to distinguish. There's a lot more than just sound (I hardly even use sound) in distinguishing whose thought is whose. I know it might not make sense yet, but really when a relatively developed tulpa speaks those words/thoughts just come with the context of being theirs.

 

To be honest I thought the average person takes several months to actually get a vocal (as in mindvoiced) tulpa

I really, really want to say it doesn't have to take that long, and if your mind's accepting enough of this type of thing (I'd call it neuromancy), it could take as little as a week to go from no tulpa to easily getting and distinguishing responses from your tulpa.

(Unfortunately my tulpas developed over 1 1/2 years, before I knew about tulpas, and development was not focused or entirely intentional, so I can't personally verify that)

Some people get responses earlier and get worried because we always imply that shouldn't happen. The only thing you have to worry about is making sure those responses are being given "This is from my tulpa" context in your mind, and not just you thinking to yourself. Admittedly similar at first though.

 

I just hope investigating any stray thought that pops into mind won't hurt my progress or alter my tulpa's personality lol.

You've convinced me you're pretty smart/open minded, but you still need to realize as soon as possible that nothing happens in your mind without your permission. There is no "accidentally (permanently) screwing up" your tulpa, and there's no "dark recesses of your brain" unless you believe there is. And you can do that if you want, but always remember your mind is under your control. Nothing just happens.

 

"everyone's either a troll, a roleplayer or a lunatic here".

I hate trolling and roleplaying (myself, don't mind others), but I could accept being called a lunatic. Unfortunately I've a strict adherence to reality based on logical and beneficial thinking that conflicts with that.

But lunacy is such a cool word.

 

 

Yeah, I'm working on that now actually, trying to figure out the whys and whats of me wanting a tulpa and its benefits. I suppose it'll still be a bit harder for me to cling onto something that isn't completely objective, but having a goal of wanting to improve my life more is pretty objective.

"For the benefit of myself and others" + "For fun" has covered pretty much every endeavor I've ever undertaken. Tulpas can do a lot of things for you, not the least of which is keep you company in your mind and bounce thoughts off of. But they can also help access your subconscious thoughts (I call that consulting intuition, and it's very useful), and most importantly keep you thinking positive and motivated. They've really changed my life in that aspect alone.

 

Mhm, I'm kind of hoping that when I seriously get to working on my tulpa, being driven will take over and I'll focus more on getting what I want than the objectivity and rationale of the whole shebang.

 

The rationalizing never stops...

Once you can recognize your tulpa as ~human, perspectives change. Some might say you're even living for them too, instead of just yourself. (I believe some people have decided against suicide solely for their tulpas' sakes) But yeah, luckily for you tulpas aren't quite separate from you, and tend to be more than happy to work with you to improve your own life. Still nice to give them attention to help improve theirs too though, every so often. I'm sure you will.

 

Makes you wonder though, are the voices mentally ill people hear sentient?

If their minds still work well enough, then they're probably convinced the voices are coming from somewhere/thing, and even if they don't know that thing or place, their mind recognizes them as existing. Like a tulpa, but subtract "imaginary friend" and add "schizophrenia".

 

Jackie Channing

what

 

To be honest, a part of the reason I want a tulpa is to see what my mind can spawn and what dark corner of my head will uncover itself lol.

For your sake and especially your tulpa's, don't try and create some subconscious demon. You'll just be making crap up, no dark corner of your mind exists except for repressed intent/ideas that society/yourself conditioned you to, well, repress. Exploring them can be interesting and I do recommend it to an extent, but don't give your power away by pretending it's some "darkness lurking in your mind". They're repressed thoughts, they can be brought to light and dealt with once you're in a better place in your life to do so. But don't turn them into a tulpa please. Too many identity issues and people giving their power away to their imagination.

 

 

Of course. I'm not afraid of a being that I can always hear its thoughts and plans

Usually a person's problem is that IT can hear YOUR thoughts and plans.. And while that's never a true problem because, of course, they share the same mind you're using to think/feel those things (which is why tulpas are so dang understanding all the time), the fact that you're implying there may be malicious intent already is actually dangerous. I'm telling you, if you have these background beliefs that your tulpa will be evil/malicious/working-for-its-own-interest-and-not-yours, your mind will find a way to express that. If that's what you really want, feel free, but I've never had a single issue with my tulpas who basically exist for our mutual benefit.

 

Jackie Chan it

what

(I know you're referring to dissipation/killing but Jackie Chan why?)

 

 

I can accept that I'll have no way of knowing whether my tulpa is concious or not

Well, if you go by my definition stated earlier, that question's a little different. If you want to go the conservative route, I'd say my tulpas are conscious whenever I bring them to mind, whenever I can see them and they can talk/act. Otherwise, they're conscious when I'm conscious. At the very least, they share my memory, so that makes sense.

 

... but the benefits of having a tulpa go beyond sentience with the factors which you mentioned like perspective benefits, better cognitive performance, deeper understanding of oneself and more.

The separate perspective is amazing. The scientist in me considers that concept, everything else about tulpamancing aside, so incredibly important. Once your brain knows how to emulate another persona, you really can get completely different perspectives on things from your own mind! This can, of course, be done without a tulpa (people do it to varying extents while formulating arguments, sympathizing, etc.) but I can confirm that a tulpa makes for a much more complete experience.

 

... and to be honest just being able to discuss that very question with my tulpa is incredibly appealing to me :)

:)

 

WHICH brings me to my question(s): are you the guy who was forcing for 7 hours? If you are, there must have been some serious motivation there if you didn't get bored of 7 hours on Word, was there a special reason if you don't mind me asking?

Yes, that's Linkzelda. Yes, Linkzelda is amazing

in general

ly dedicated. I think he wanted to test its effects/benefits and maybe just see if he could do it. But I'll leave those questions to him, he'd probably love to answer.

[sushi]

That does raise a curious question though, what would happen if a person with a mental illness had a tulpa? Anyone ever come across something like this either on this forum or elsewhere?

 

People with stuff like depression or Asperger's seem to do well. As for people with schizophrenia, well, it's hard to tell if what they have is really a tulpa.

 

Nice work with all the sources by the way, where do you get all of these? lol

 

 

I've been reading about tulpas for a really long time. Back before 2012, tulpas were really hard to google, so I searched through a lot of stuff on psychology or metaphysics. About half of my first linky post here came from Nobillis, who is really linky herself.

 

I was honestly interested in what sushi was saying about the Tibetans having tulpas way back before any of us knew what that even means, even if my phrasing was a bit more casual.

 

My PR is a good place to find information on that. Most of what we know about the Tibetans comes from Alexandra David-Neel's book Magic and Mystery in Tibet. Lower down on the first post of my PR, I have a sort of review/summary of the book, with quotes from the tulpa-related sections, and two links to where you can find the text online, if you want more than my quotes.

[Luminesce]

It's pretty complicated, having formed all those replies before knowing how you'd react to my previous post, and now it's probably a lost cause to edit my answers, so I'll try and make up for that here. Just so you know I'm not going to put "In my experience/opinion," before everything I type, but it's implied. And at the same time I'm glad you're so skeptical of these answers I have complete faith in. Because if I were in your position as myself, I'd be arguing with me too.

You'll be better for it.

 

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. ... Likewise, people who end up with "harmful" tulpas might be looking for sort of an inner challenge; they want to test how well they can handle a threat that stems within them and knows everything about them and who they are, just because of how difficult and challenging that sounds.

As much as that doesn't appeal to me personally, I can certainly respect it. But you're wrong about "most are looking for an inner challenge" - I'm going to put my foot down here and say I've seen more people suffer to their own minds than you have. The reason I seemed so aggressive at the start of that post is because the subject bothers me personally on all sorts of levels, mainly the humanitarian one. I can't stand seeing people torture themselves because they can't take control of their mind back from a hollow evil.. having given it away. Anyway, I have direct evidence even on this forum of people who certainly did not like what was going on, and their lives overall suffered from it.

 

Now in your case, go for it. I plead that you do not put your repressed "darker side" into the form of a tulpa, in fact I would encourage you to work together with your tulpa to overcome that challenge. But overall, you seem more than capable of doing that type of thing, and I don't mean to put you in the same group as others who can't cope with their own thoughts. But I won't accept that everyone does it as a challenge, like yourself. I've seen too many people who would have stopped it all in an instant if only they'd realized they could. I wish you the best of luck.

 

Are you implying it's an illegitimate question? Should we accept an unproven concept ... but you striking something as reasonable as what is at the end of a day just healthy doubt off as illegitimate kinda makes me lose my faith in humanity.

I love that people ask questions. I didn't mean to imply it was a bad or illegitimate question for others to ask. At the same time, try and level with me. Surely you know how it feels to have found a satisfactory answer to something, but have to constantly see others struggle to understand? Even though it seems so clear to you.

 

I may be projecting my own past insecurity about the legitimacy of tulpas by subconsciously forcing the answer I found on others, but it's only the intensity that's affected by that. I still truly believe in the answer, and believe if people can figure it out for themselves with my help they'll benefit from it. That being said, I don't feel it's fair for you to react quite the way you did.. you were probably put on the defensive by my opening paragraph. Which I apologize for again, that's one of the few subjects in the entire world I'm emotionally attached to. Anyway, all I ask is you try and understand why I think these answers I give. Ask questions about them to me, and to yourself, if they don't immediately make sense. A fact isn't a fact until it's proven anyway. (Even better, since this is all subjective, take my "fact" and change it to suit yourself, making it your "fact". That's pretty much what I do, take answers and see if they make logical sense to me, and change them if they don't until they do.)

 

That's not how you determine whether something is real or not. ... You're assuming that because a tulpa can speak and has opinions it automatically means they're sentient rather than acting according to their "programming".

Uhmm... Probably a touchy subject. By real I simply meant to refute the "newbie's question" of whether or not the phenomenon exists, which it does in my experience.

 

Sentience is another matter. This isn't even about tulpas anymore with what you've proposed.. What do you consider sentient? My tulpas don't just "speak and give opinions", they've fully fleshed out behaviors, personas, processes of thinking, beliefs and morals, and have many times shown they will act in a way I would not have myself. But if you don't consider that sentient...

 

Is a mouse sentient? Is it not just following its programming? A bear? ...A human? Are we not all just following an admittedly much more complex programming code than our tulpas'? This is a philosophical question which, as much as I'd love to discuss, is quickly deadened if there's an implication of human superiority over other animals, as in the case of having souls or being creations of God. I cannot discuss further at that point. But if that's not a point you're bringing up, then I ask my previous question: is a tulpa, following its "programming" of being a complex persona set up in the mind, so different from a normal human being, following a similar but more complex (having been built on throughout a lifetime) programming themselves? I cannot personally verify whether we have some other form of not-programming that influences our selves aside from DNA. I cannot say that we do or don't have a soul, and certainly the deepest inner workings of the mind are far out of the reach of my comprehension. So I won't follow that further.

 

I hope this isn't at all what you meant and you just reply like, "wat"

 

 

Of course you do, you programmed them to be beliveable enough with the help of your very subconcious which understands what you believe and don't believe more than your concious mind ever will, how the hell can you see a very convincing act as sentience with such certainty?

 

pls no

Do you want me to lie down and die, never think again? I work with what I have, and I have to rely on science - discovery and hypothesis-driven - to establish order in my life and my mind. I do that to the absolute best of my ability. And honestly? Wait.. I think you're still being more aggressive than you mean to be due to taking offense from my previous statements. Well.. I'll just leave it at "My philosophy is my life".

 

Reisen is more important to me than logic and life itself. Should we come to a point where logic tells me to leave her (or more accurately, what she stands for, universal unconditional love), I will refuse logic and gladly accept lunacy. Luckily, I've spent a good portion of my life trying to bring sense to my ideals, to the point where I could accept one day no longer requiring Reisen to embody unconditional love as I learn to recognize it in everything. So an abandonment of logic won't be necessary.

 

I'll admit, two things I'm emotionally attached two so quickly seems to discredit my previous statement. To be fair, you didn't quite call out Reisen as fake, but the implication that I'm falling for an "act" from my tulpas brought some unpleasant thoughts. Consider that rant venting.

 

 

You could use some healthy skepticism yourself. Stop accepting your opinions as facts and dismissing those who do have some very rational doubts as unhealthy, it's absolutely senseless.

I wish I could just be unproductive and defend myself or some such, but that's obviously not the real problem here. I'm sorry I offended you by seemingly implying I dismissed others' rational doubts in stead of my personal opinions. That wasn't my intention, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I'm not discrediting the way you do things, I'm simply saying that to me it seems just a bit unreasonable to simply dismiss any doubt a person might have as either unhealthy or irrational just because your subjective experience might possibly suggest some likelyhood of different anecdotes that suggest otherwise. And it's okay if you choose to discredit that.

I give my personal facts, to be thought over, reviewed and possibly edited, and accepted or refuted. I'm sorry you take what I offer as facts verified by myself and given to others to possibly benefit from, or criticize, as implications of my universal correctness. They're my facts, but they don't have to be yours.

 

Glad you appreciate it. I don't know why you see anything that isn't worded in a way that's 100% serious as illegitimate

Honestly, I was referring to the way you presented yourself, which implied you didn't really care about what you were talking about. And then I was convinced otherwise by the amount of thought put into what you said. Given you're named 8==D and made a thread called One Huge Troll, you can't possibly blame me for being skeptical at first. I think the fact that I put effort into my replies to you shows I didn't straight up discredit what you really had to say, though. In fact I appreciate you putting so much thought, and skepticism, into the subject of tulpamancing.

 

I was honestly interested in what sushi was saying ... even if my phrasing was a bit more casual.

If you can really describe the name, topic and demeanor (at first, you got serious pretty quick) as "a bit casual" with a straight face, you win.

 

Again, you're accepting things as either black or white too much; "if this isn't 100% the way I think it should be then it must be a troll", and a while I always appreciate some healthy doubt it seems like you choose to just ignore any doubt that may be on other people's minds in favor of self reassurance.

Is the way I said "You guys are thinking incorrectly, here, have my correct way" really that bad? Hmm.. Maybe. I'll end this by apologizing again and saying, I've a history of being bad at communicating my thoughts. People have called me cocky, know-it-all and even uncaring when I truly meant only to help. Enough times and it must actually be my own problem, I guess. I'll continue to work on my communication skills, but for now I ask that you not take me too seriously/negatively. It's not my intention and apparently I can't help it.

 

 

But you know who can? Reisen. I could learn a thing or a hundred from her, because she phrases things like an angel compared to me. And by my logic, that must mean I'm capable of it too, huh?

 

 

Thanks for reading, and taking the time to reply.

[Kaga and Company]

That's interesting. So when your tulpas speak, it's like your mindvoice is speaking on its own? That should make it distinguishable enough, I guess.

 

Pretty much.

 

I read somewhere that a good trick to recognize a separate consciousness from your own is to ask your tulpa to surprise you. If they're developed enough to manage it, they'll say or do something totally unexpected, so you'll definitely know that it's not your own thought.

 

So I guess I should just give him a voice as different from mine as possible to make it easier? Sounds easy enough.

 

Well, you could, but I'm not sure it's totally necessary. While Ex and Kael's voices definitely sound more unlike my own (being male), Pinky and Sunray are both female but I can still differentiate their voices from my own rather well. Pinky probably sounds the closest to my own voice than any of the others, but I can still tell her apart from my self -- probably mostly because of the fact that I'm not controlling her thoughts.

 

Wow that's pretty cool actually. Did you do anything special or are you just a natural? Any tips or something you think you did that made it go faster?

Also, I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about, it's not like it went faster for you because you leeched effort from other people, it was just easier for you thanks to your own personal qualities which didn't negatively affect other people's progress in any way and that's perfectly fine.

 

A lot of it probably has to do with the fact that my first three tulpas (Pinky, Sunray and Ex) were all created accidentally, before I even came to this site and really learned about the whole tulpa phenomenon. (So believe me that when I did come to this site and realized that so many other people had sentient thoughtforms like mine, my jaw hit the floor.) Pinky in particular was probably the slowest to form, since she was my first and I don't remember what exact time in my life she started to develop. But I remember that Sunray, for one, developed sentience almost immediately, if I recall correctly. And again, all of this was before I knew that people made a conscious effort to create such beings. All my accidental tulpas were created -- I believed at the time -- by my own subconscious without any effort on my part, even if it's clear looking back on it that a lot of what I did back then could easily be considered passive forcing.

 

Anyway, by the time I created Kael (the first tulpa that I made a conscious effort to create), I was able to visualize him almost immediately, seeing him do things that seemed to be at least partially of his own control and not mine. Later that very same night, probably only a couple hours later max, I heard his first words. I was very impressed and surprised with myself! I figured that a lot of it had to do with the fact that I already had tulpas, so I was familiar with what to expect, but then I realized that a lot of people here take much longer to develop even their second, third, etc tulpas.

 

Really, though, the fact that I was able to accidentally create tulpas in the first place probably just points towards some sort of natural talent. Everyone's brain is wired differently, after all, and I guess some people are just better-wired for tulpa development. I will say, though, that while "hearing" and visualizing my tulpas came very naturally, I'm a lot weaker in other areas of development. For example, I've never experienced any visual or auditory hallucinations from my tulpas (all I've gotten are some very vague and ghost-like tactile hallucinations, though most of them seem to fall more under the category of "phantom tail syndrome"), so, even if your tulpa takes longer to develop initially, you might find that there are other stages in development that come a lot more easily to you.

[sushi]

Incidentally, for those who don't know,

is an old meme. When you have an uncontrollable tulpa, you make a Jackie Chan tulpa to beat them up.

[Linkzelda]

So I read through the thread and was formulating a mass of text to cover the points no one but me seems to cover' date=' and then I saw it end with Linkzelda's textwall and was like, oh. Got beaten to it.[/quote']

 

I’m not a one man army; you shouldn’t feel the need to refrain what you want to say just because someone got there before you. That’s only a concern if there’s laconic posts that state the obvious. When it comes to textwalls I guess, I hardly think there would be an exact word for word opinion stated. Maybe an echo chamber for the hardcore critics, but the means to help people make a conclusion for themselves, even if it’s just a temporary set of opinions to guide them towards making their own system of ethics and what have you, is helpful if more pitch in together.

 

This thread is the perfect example for everyone to crack down on the differences between roleplaying, and actually going to such lengths to implicitly believe someone other than you inside of your head is sentient. Being aware of dead-ends (e.g. private subjective experience being difficult to quantify empirically), and finding a way to work around that can, IMO, help people focus more on what they can do. Because even by some miracle that there’s empirical foundations established in the future in relation to tulpas, the progressive strive to close the explanatory gaps with the bigger questions isn’t solved from then until the end of time.

 

Though I feel kind of bad that people feel that just because I made a post, that they should absolve any motivation from doing so themselves. I can’t possibly cover all points, especially towards OP who’s trying to extract as many perspectives as they can. It’s not Linkzelda.info, it’s tulpa.info. I usually had an unsettling feeling why not a lot of people post, but if your case is true, please don’t feel the need that it’s my website, or anything like that, lol.

 

I guess I could explain the 7 hours thing away by saying it's the common "I-want-to-believe-and-I'll-do-anything-to-make-it-happen-for-as-long-as-I-can"' date=' but I doubt that's the case seeing as most people would give up on the facade just by the mere thought of doing something to sustain a lie for 7 hours.[/quote']

 

What you described there with the dashes is just the mindset for that circumstance of forcing. You’re right in that it could be a façade to others simply because I can’t possibly explain the philosophical implications that inspired the motivation for me to do so unless they really wanted to know.

 

WHICH brings me to my question(s): are you the guy who was forcing for 7 hours?

 

I’m sure there were people who did long hours, except they probably just didn’t record it; I don’t know. But yes, I was forcing at that time.

 

If you are' date=' there must have been some serious motivation there if you didn't get bored of 7 hours on Word, was there a special reason if you don't mind me asking?[/quote']

 

I found a laconic statement to describe the reason in my PR; it’s just for a better future, and doing whatever it takes so all of us can live out our lives. As for the more long and philosophically based reason that leads to other reasons supporting it, it would just be temporary opinions of mine, but I think I’m getting there in putting them concisely in the future.

 

Did you feel any benefits? Looking at the channel I see that's not the first time you're doing it (if it's you)' date=' in comparison to other people's progress do you feel it went faster for you thanks to it? If so, how much faster? Like, what's your progress so far and when did you start? [/quote']

 

Depends on what you think is a benefit. If we’re talking about developing visual competency, then from my experience, yes. I timed myself to go for that long to see how far my mind can go, and just doing it just portrayed to me that it never seems to run out; it only seems to be limited at first because it’s contingent on how much you want to be aware of what’s going on. If I didn’t lapse in concentration and consciousness every few seconds or so, I could’ve went for longer.

 

I ended up finding a form that Eva can take, and it’s one that’s easily ingrained in my head. As for Ada, I’m still trying to see how she can move over that form she’s used to. For my progress so far, I felt that doing those long sessions alone contributed to making it easier to imagine them when I’m not doing active forcing. In other words, every time I took the time to associate what I was doing with them, it was easier to think of, and it didn’t involve layers of wondering whose thought is who, and other things people might be worried about (e.g. pupetting, parroting, etc.)

 

I think doing those long sessions along with the ones beforehand over the years destroyed my criticism in context of what I could be visually capable of producing and experiencing. And if I’m spending so long trying to describe things in as many senses as I can, I felt it just made me more aware of subtle things I ignored in my daily lifestyle; literally everything. But this is an ongoing thing, so it’s contingent on how much I want to keep doing it. I don’t have to do 7 hours every day for a year obviously. It’s just something I do to just let my mind stream things with little to no distraction from me; I just provide some direction while my mind paints it all in my head.

 

I can say that imposition, should I want to practice it as much as I’m doing it, will probably be easier, especially if I had moments where I was in an elevator stretching my hand out and being able to imagine one of their hands as well.

 

If I can do that with my eyes opened, I guess that’s one step towards getting better at imposition. And as for the auditory stuff, it’s crazy because it’s not just based on what I’m hearing now; the whole shebang seems to come at play now, which makes me more used to acknowledging them, and referring to them than just hearing a voice in my head.

 

Sometimes I spend more time with the visualization and other senses than hearing them; I think at that point, if you’re spending so long doing something like that, you’re not biased towards one mode of acknowledging them. I feel some people ended up quitting because they needed something like, hearing their voice, to be established to be motivated to do anything else.

 

This is just my progress in a nutshell.

[Luminesce]

I’m not a one man army; you shouldn’t feel the need to refrain what you want to say just because someone got there before you. That’s only a concern if there’s laconic posts that state the obvious. When it comes to textwalls I guess, I hardly think there would be an exact word for word opinion stated. ... Though I feel kind of bad that people feel that just because I made a post, that they should absolve any motivation from doing so themselves. I can’t possibly cover all points

 

Well, of course. Hence why I made multiple textwall posts after the fact. I had read through the thread and had several key points I wanted to make, and then I saw yours was the last post, a textwall itself. So I assumed you'd covered what I wanted to say. But, I read it and you hadn't, hence the "But nope," and then :text:. Usually when a new member to the forum makes a thread asking a question, it's straightforward enough (as in many of us here could answer it), so when you make a post there's not much left for me to say. A thread like this one (and a user like this one), where thought-provoking questions are asked and then the answers are criticized, is much less common. And of course, no single person's opinion could answer that alone.

 

I dunno, don't worry about it. This thread went on a lot longer than I thought it would, because OP kept asking questions/debating, where most people usually just say "Wow, thanks for the help" and it's over. Only time you've ever stopped me from posting is when you said what I would've word for word. (I know confirmation is useful too, but I usually save my posts for when I think no one will say what I have to say, hence why I don't often post on the simpler question threads)

[Dee]

Err.. Okay, this is going to be (in linkzelda's words) One Huge Post™.

 

It's pretty complicated, having formed all those replies before knowing how you'd react to my previous post, and now it's probably a lost cause to edit my answers, so I'll try and make up for that here. Just so you know I'm not going to put "In my experience/opinion," before everything I type, but it's implied. And at the same time I'm glad you're so skeptical of these answers I have complete faith in. Because if I were in your position as myself, I'd be arguing with me too.

You'll be better for it.

 

I didn't expect you to put that before everything you write nor did I write what I did because of it, I just got a very condecending close minded attitude from the general gist of how you expressed yourself. I'm not saying that's the kind of person you are

in fact I'm convinced you're not after reading your other posts

, but that's how it is as far as why I was a bit ticked off when I replied goes..

 

As much as that doesn't appeal to me personally, I can certainly respect it. But you're wrong about "most are looking for an inner challenge" - I'm going to put my foot down here and say I've seen more people suffer to their own minds than you have. The reason I seemed so aggressive at the start of that post is because the subject bothers me personally on all sorts of levels, mainly the humanitarian one. I can't stand seeing people torture themselves because they can't take control of their mind back from a hollow evil.. having given it away. Anyway, I have direct evidence even on this forum of people who certainly did not like what was going on, and their lives overall suffered from it.

 

That doesn't really contradict what I said, when people expect a challenge they expect it to be risky, otherwise it's hardly any fun at all.. Yes, there's still the fun of putting an effort into solving something that pushes your skills to the limit (or more than you normally would), but knowing/thinking there's something on the line that depends on you either succeeding or not is easily one of the best things about challenging yourself, and I can totally see how that crawls its way into people's tulpas if they made, either conciously or subconciously, for the sake of the challenge. They obviously don't want to suffer, but then again they might just not understand they can end it whenever they like.

 

As for the humanitarian reasons that's highly dependent on your concept of morals so I won't go too far into it, but the way I see it, if they know they can end their suffering at any given moment and choose not to for whatever reason, I can hardly have any complaints for them as long as they don't project their suffering on others by force. Nothing immoral about fucking up your own body. Can't say I see the logic in it, but I'll be the last one to be angry with them if that's what they want.

 

Now in your case, go for it. I plead that you do not put your repressed "darker side" into the form of a tulpa, in fact I would encourage you to work together with your tulpa to overcome that challenge.

 

Well, I wasn't really planning on creating an embodiment of my psycopathy

no I'm not really a psycopath lol

in the form of a tulpa that I can fight to the death for control over my body

but god dayumn does that sound cool

, I meant it more in a curious way; many if not all of the guides here say that your subconcious plays a large role in how your tulpa turns out to be eventually, and seeing as tulpaless individuals don't have access to their subconcious, the thought of how it would affect my tulpa and its creation intrigued me.

 

But overall, you seem more than capable of doing that type of thing, and I don't mean to put you in the same group as others who can't cope with their own thoughts. But I won't accept that everyone does it as a challenge, like yourself. I've seen too many people who would have stopped it all in an instant if only they'd realized they could. I wish you the best of luck.

 

Well, first of all thanks :)

 

As for these people who could stop it and are suffering, God knows I'll be the last one to tell others what to do with their lives so please don't see it like that, but you seem like a benevolent enough person judging by your very loving philosophy (and tulpa, from what I understand), why not help them instead of be angry with them? Tulpas aren't the only ones who can make a difference for the better in other people's lives ;)

 

I love that people ask questions. I didn't mean to imply it was a bad or illegitimate question for others to ask. At the same time, try and level with me. Surely you know how it feels to have found a satisfactory answer to something, but have to constantly see others struggle to understand? Even though it seems so clear to you.

 

Of course, I completely understand and that happens to me a lot as well, but that's the beauty of it: when you know something is right and are 100% sure of it it's so fun

and even easy

to use these opportunities for debate to express these views and show others why you're right

if you are ;)

/your line of thought, if you're half as opinionated as I think you are you'll probably enjoy that more than closing yourself to different views.

 

I may be projecting my own past insecurity about the legitimacy of tulpas by subconsciously forcing the answer I found on others, but it's only the intensity that's affected by that. I still truly believe in the answer, and believe if people can figure it out for themselves with my help they'll benefit from it.

 

Of course, and I can respect that kind of faith, but you should also remember this is a highly new field in any aspect. There's just no evidence for any claim anyone makes, naturally that's going to spring some questions, and while currently my views on Tulpish (tulpish?) sentience turning out to be more and more in line with yours, not everybody's the same and there's no need to be so harsh with them for that, definitely not to go as far as "losing faith in humanity"..

 

That being said, I don't feel it's fair for you to react quite the way you did.. you were probably put on the defensive by my opening paragraph. Which I apologize for again, that's one of the few subjects in the entire world I'm emotionally attached to.

 

Well.. Bare with me here, I didn't read your 2nd and 3rd post before replying to your 1st :P

Yes, I do have a tendency to go more on the offensive side when attacked by others, but come on, it was pretty proportionate seeing as at the end of a day all I was trying to do is put up a legitimate question I had up for discussion and in turn was met with every 2nd person thinking I'm a troll. But again, I can totally respect that kind of faith and emotional attachment

in fact I encourage you to phrase your views in a way that is closest to the way you feel about them as long as you don't mind my replies being the same

.

 

Anyway, all I ask is you try and understand why I think these answers I give. Ask questions about them to me, and to yourself, if they don't immediately make sense. A fact isn't a fact until it's proven anyway. (Even better, since this is all subjective, take my "fact" and change it to suit yourself, making it your "fact". That's pretty much what I do, take answers and see if they make logical sense to me, and change them if they don't until they do.)

 

Yeah I see what you're saying, the problem is when facts start contradicting each other, which often happens in subjective matters, in which case I always encourage others to bring those views into discussions ^_^

 

Uhmm... Probably a touchy subject. By real I simply meant to refute the "newbie's question" of whether or not the phenomenon exists, which it does in my experience.

 

Pretty convinced they're real as well

after a very long and heavy analysis of the subject and sushi's sources

, wasn't doubting that. Wasn't really doubting their sentience either seeing as practically 100% of the creation process (creation, not imposition) deals with molding a character out of your own conciousness, so naturally seeing as an item (For a lack of a better general word. Actually that happens to quite a lot and it pisses me the hell off, does anyone know a better general word for the most basic unit of a group? For example: individual, item, etc.) has to be a combination of what it's made of, I'd say sentience is probably the right answer.

 

Sentience is another matter. This isn't even about tulpas anymore with what you've proposed.. What do you consider sentient? My tulpas don't just "speak and give opinions", they've fully fleshed out behaviors, personas, processes of thinking, beliefs and morals, and have many times shown they will act in a way I would not have myself. But if you don't consider that sentient...

 

Is a mouse sentient? Is it not just following its programming? A bear? ...A human? Are we not all just following an admittedly much more complex programming code than our tulpas'? This is a philosophical question which, as much as I'd love to discuss, is quickly deadened if there's an implication of human superiority over other animals, as in the case of having souls or being creations of God. I cannot discuss further at that point. But if that's not a point you're bringing up, then I ask my previous question: is a tulpa, following its "programming" of being a complex persona set up in the mind, so different from a normal human being, following a similar but more complex (having been built on throughout a lifetime) programming themselves? I cannot personally verify whether we have some other form of not-programming that influences our selves aside from DNA. I cannot say that we do or don't have a soul, and certainly the deepest inner workings of the mind are far out of the reach of my comprehension. So I won't follow that further.

 

I hope this isn't at all what you meant and you just reply like, "wat"

 

 

I'm not really gonna address that because I do believe tulpas are sentient, but just for the sake of information not all animals (definitely not mice

if I recall correctly

) are sentient, it's highly dependent on the complexity of the animal's brain (which doesn't really apply to tulpas seeing as their brain's complexity is exactly the same as ours).

 

 

pls no

Do you want me to lie down and die, never think again? I work with what I have, and I have to rely on science - discovery and hypothesis-driven - to establish order in my life and my mind. I do that to the absolute best of my ability. And honestly? Wait.. I think you're still being more aggressive than you mean to be due to taking offense from my previous statements. Well.. I'll just leave it at "My philosophy is my life".

 

You weren't quoting anything so I don't have the slightest idea of what you're responding to. It's probably the point I was making about you dismissing opinions, in which case I'd say that you weren't willing to work with more than what you had when I was offering another perspective, but that wouldn't hold true for the your later posts, so all I'll say is that I was just responding to what you were saying.

 

also a hundred bucks say the continuation for "And honestly?" was "I don't give a shit about what you think about me" xD

 

 

Reisen is more important to me than logic and life itself. Should we come to a point where logic tells me to leave her (or more accurately, what she stands for, universal unconditional love), I will refuse logic and gladly accept lunacy. Luckily, I've spent a good portion of my life trying to bring sense to my ideals, to the point where I could accept one day no longer requiring Reisen to embody unconditional love as I learn to recognize it in everything. So an abandonment of logic won't be necessary.

 

As you said, no need for that. Emotions can have logic in them, they're responses to life situations. When they get the better of you though that's a whole different story. I wouldn't discard logic if I were you though, it's on your and Reisen's side so far.

 

 

I'll admit, two things I'm emotionally attached two so quickly seems to discredit my previous statement. To be fair, you didn't quite call out Reisen as fake, but the implication that I'm falling for an "act" from my tulpas brought some unpleasant thoughts. Consider that rant venting.

 

 

I didn't call out Reisen is fake nor was I trying to imply it, I was simply playing devil's advocate and bringing another perspective to mind because the points you were raising invoked some thought, which is a good thing.

 

And besides, calm down lad, logic is on your side.

 

 

I wish I could just be unproductive and defend myself or some such, but that's obviously not the real problem here. I'm sorry I offended you by seemingly implying I dismissed others' rational doubts in stead of my personal opinions. That wasn't my intention, so I'll leave it at that.

 

I give my personal facts, to be thought over, reviewed and possibly edited, and accepted or refuted. I'm sorry you take what I offer as facts verified by myself and given to others to possibly benefit from, or criticize, as implications of my universal correctness. They're my facts, but they don't have to be yours.

 

And that's how I know you're not the my-truth-is-the-universal-truth-all-others-are-wrong-and-must-kneel type of person :)

 

Honestly, I was referring to the way you presented yourself, which implied you didn't really care about what you were talking about. And then I was convinced otherwise by the amount of thought put into what you said. Given you're named 8==D and made a thread called One Huge Troll, you can't possibly blame me for being skeptical at first. I think the fact that I put effort into my replies to you shows I didn't straight up discredit what you really had to say, though. In fact I appreciate you putting so much thought, and skepticism, into the subject of tulpamancing.

 

 

If you can really describe the name, topic and demeanor (at first, you got serious pretty quick) as "a bit casual" with a straight face, you win.

 

......

Seriously guys, I definitely appreciate and enjoy how things can be discussed here, but loosen up a bit. Not everything has to be 100% serious all the time, I was just expressing my views the way that felt closest to the way it's manifested within myself, this is an internet forum, not a court.. As for my name, I just don't think it's that important so I always write the first thing that comes to mind. You can call me D or Dee if you want, that's the first letter of my real name anyway. And just for the sake of making sure I'm describing where I'm coming from in an understandable way, if you heard for the first time that there might (just might) be a way to create spooky mind ghosts and invisible ponies and had the doubt that in case it's all fake everyone here is just a roleplayer, would you really have phrased yourself in a way more serious than me?

 

Is the way I said "You guys are thinking incorrectly, here, have my correct way" really that bad? Hmm.. Maybe. I'll end this by apologizing again and saying, I've a history of being bad at communicating my thoughts. People have called me cocky, know-it-all and even uncaring when I truly meant only to help. Enough times and it must actually be my own problem, I guess. I'll continue to work on my communication skills, but for now I ask that you not take me too seriously/negatively. It's not my intention and apparently I can't help it.

 

Of course, I completely understand :)

Which is why I'll say again, after reading your later posts I don't believe at all you're that kind of person.

 

 

But you know who can? Reisen. I could learn a thing or a hundred from her, because she phrases things like an angel compared to me. And by my logic, that must mean I'm capable of it too, huh?

 

 

Thanks for reading, and taking the time to reply.

 

Wait wait wait wait WAIT. Hold on right there. Are you saying Reisen can phrase things in a way that might appeal to a different group of people better than how you would phrase it? As in, a tulpa can have a higher mastery of rhetorics than the host? Not criticizing you, just saying that rhetorics are kind of reliant on personality type, for example a very aggressive person will find it much harder to speak like a diplomat than an empathetic type of person, so if you 2 can address different audiences in different ways, each one in a way that suits the targeted audience more than the other's way (well that came off as confusing), that's just incredible. And all the more reason for me to get a tulpa with my dreams of being a lawyer ;P

 

Well that reply took me about an hour and 10 minutes to write. I'll reply to your other post after I eat something because I'm starving.

[Dee]

***Nope I read the first few things, looks like you disagreed with me a bit a lot. I spent a decent amount of effort writing this so I'm posting it anyways, but I guess I should warn you not to take my "You should do this, for your sake" too seriously. Everything I say is just what I believe, and just because I believe it wholeheartedly does not mean I expect everyone to immediately accept it. Rather, by showing how sure I am, I hope to make you and anyone reading seriously think about it. Sound wrong? WHY is it wrong, if I'm so insistent? And if you answer that, then I'm very happy. On with the probably-partially-obsolete post.

 

..I'm pretty sure I did elaborate on any point I made.

 

There might be a bit of an "automatic" feeling, but I've described it before as rather feeling as if the thought isn't yours. It came from your brain, but it feels like someone else - your tulpa - made it up. Later on you learn to distinguish thoughts pretty quickly because your brain learns to apply the context of your tulpa to their thoughts.

 

Yeah, but it's kind of a catch 22 isn't it? You can't hear your tulpa until you've made enough progress and you can't make any progress on your tulpa's vocality if you can't hear him/her and talk to him/her. What am I missing?

*I should mention when I say hear/vocality it can apply to either auditory hallucinations and mindvoice

 

I wouldn't choose their voice based on being not-yours. As far as I know three tulpas could each have your exact voice and, being developed enough, shouldn't be hard to distinguish. There's a lot more than just sound (I hardly even use sound) in distinguishing whose thought is whose. I know it might not make sense yet, but really when a relatively developed tulpa speaks those words/thoughts just come with the context of being theirs.

 

Well, I was planning on making it way more different than mine (having the same voice would just be kinda boring to me) anyway so that's ok. Will it help though?

 

I really, really want to say it doesn't have to take that long, and if your mind's accepting enough of this type of thing (I'd call it neuromancy), it could take as little as a week to go from no tulpa to easily getting and distinguishing responses from your tulpa.

(Unfortunately my tulpas developed over 1 1/2 years, before I knew about tulpas, and development was not focused or entirely intentional, so I can't personally verify that)

Some people get responses earlier and get worried because we always imply that shouldn't happen. The only thing you have to worry about is making sure those responses are being given "This is from my tulpa" context in your mind, and not just you thinking to yourself. Admittedly similar at first though.

 

I think I understand, a lot of people have been saying pretty much the same so I guess it should come naturally enough for me not to worry about it. But 1 1/2 years you say? Damn that's a long time. Then again you weren't really trying to create one, that's like passively passively forcing (yes, double passively). Gotta be an interesting story behind it though, do you mind sharing it? :)

 

You've convinced me you're pretty smart/open minded, but you still need to realize as soon as possible that nothing happens in your mind without your permission. There is no "accidentally (permanently) screwing up" your tulpa, and there's no "dark recesses of your brain" unless you believe there is. And you can do that if you want, but always remember your mind is under your control. Nothing just happens.

 

Thanks :)

I don't know if it's as much as "without my permission" as much as it is "without my concious mind's permission"; for example personality deviations, from what I understand nobody gets exactly what they want, right? So I guess in a way our subconcious might be our brain's dark recess, I just hope it'll spring up something at least in the general direction of what I'm aiming for.

 

I hate trolling and roleplaying (myself, don't mind others), but I could accept being called a lunatic. Unfortunately I've a strict adherence to reality based on logical and beneficial thinking that conflicts with that.

But lunacy is such a cool word.

 

 

Careful with what you accept, most psychologists would peg you guys for

post

schizophreniacs ;D

 

"For the benefit of myself and others" + "For fun" has covered pretty much every endeavor I've ever undertaken. Tulpas can do a lot of things for you, not the least of which is keep you company in your mind and bounce thoughts off of. But they can also help access your subconscious thoughts (I call that consulting intuition, and it's very useful), and most importantly keep you thinking positive and motivated. They've really changed my life in that aspect alone.

 

Bouncing thoughts off

and back and then pitting them against contradictory bounced thoughts again

and changing/contributing my way of thinking is what I'm aiming for. I'm not depressed or suicidal or anything like that in the slightest, but I do want to better myself.

 

 

The rationalizing never stops...

Once you can recognize your tulpa as ~human, perspectives change. Some might say you're even living for them too, instead of just yourself. (I believe some people have decided against suicide solely for their tulpas' sakes) But yeah, luckily for you tulpas aren't quite separate from you, and tend to be more than happy to work with you to improve your own life. Still nice to give them attention to help improve theirs too though, every so often. I'm sure you will.

 

Well yeah, I meant more in the sense that during the creation process itself I'll be more driven than I am doubtful and instead of constantly checking where I am and where I'm supposed to be I'll be too busy hellbent on creating a life. I definitely am planning on helping my tulpa if he'll need any help, I don't want a tool, I want a companion

for reference see

. Actually, ever since I started forcing all the way back in several hours ago, one of the main points I keep telling my tulpa is that this is a part of the deal; I help him develop his personality and he in turns helps me develop mine. Then we take over the world :D.

 

If their minds still work well enough, then they're probably convinced the voices are coming from somewhere/thing, and even if they don't know that thing or place, their mind recognizes them as existing. Like a tulpa, but subtract "imaginary friend" and add "schizophrenia".

 

This sounds so interesting I almost hope I was a schizophreniac. Almost.

Being post-schizophreniac is good enough though

 

 

what

 

see:

Incidentally, for those who don't know,

is an old meme. When you have an uncontrollable tulpa, you make a Jackie Chan tulpa to beat them up.

 

For your sake and especially your tulpa's, don't try and create some subconscious demon. You'll just be making crap up, no dark corner of your mind exists except for repressed intent/ideas that society/yourself conditioned you to, well, repress. Exploring them can be interesting and I do recommend it to an extent, but don't give your power away by pretending it's some "darkness lurking in your mind". They're repressed thoughts, they can be brought to light and dealt with once you're in a better place in your life to do so. But don't turn them into a tulpa please. Too many identity issues and people giving their power away to their imagination.

 

Don't worry, I have no intentions of giving away control of my body to anyone any time soon. I was just saying the idea sounds interesting to me, from a solely inquisitive perspective.

 

Usually a person's problem is that IT can hear YOUR thoughts and plans.. And while that's never a true problem because, of course, they share the same mind you're using to think/feel those things (which is why tulpas are so dang understanding all the time), the fact that you're implying there may be malicious intent already is actually dangerous. I'm telling you, if you have these background beliefs that your tulpa will be evil/malicious/working-for-its-own-interest-and-not-yours, your mind will find a way to express that. If that's what you really want, feel free, but I've never had a single issue with my tulpas who basically exist for our mutual benefit.

 

I wasn't trying to imply there's malicious intent there, I meant that even in case the sp00ky creepy pasta stories are true I'm not really afraid. Okay yes, when I think about it too much something about me is getting a bit provocative, but as you said, I'm the one in control. There's no real danger, if I get a psychopath I'll just unpsycopath them.

 

Well, if you go by my definition stated earlier, that question's a little different. If you want to go the conservative route, I'd say my tulpas are conscious whenever I bring them to mind, whenever I can see them and they can talk/act. Otherwise, they're conscious when I'm conscious. At the very least, they share my memory, so that makes sense.

 

Can you ask them what happens when you're not thinking/seeing/talking to them?

 

The separate perspective is amazing. The scientist in me considers that concept, everything else about tulpamancing aside, so incredibly important. Once your brain knows how to emulate another persona, you really can get completely different perspectives on things from your own mind! This can, of course, be done without a tulpa (people do it to varying extents while formulating arguments, sympathizing, etc.) but I can confirm that a tulpa makes for a much more complete experience.

 

This is actually one of the main reasons I want a tulpa. Sure, I can always have a nice debate with one of my friends, but having a neverending infinite automatic arguments about every single detail I see? Beyond priceless.

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People with stuff like depression or Asperger's seem to do well. As for people with schizophrenia, well, it's hard to tell if what they have is really a tulpa.

 

No other mentally ill people who had tulpas (that are known of/came across this forum, obviously)? I'm thinking more like bipolar people and the like whose brains pretty much light up like Christmas trees 99% of the time.

 

I've been reading about tulpas for a really long time. Back before 2012, tulpas were really hard to google, so I searched through a lot of stuff on psychology or metaphysics. About half of my first linky post here came from Nobillis, who is really linky herself.

 

Then how did you discover about tulpas? Was it accidental? If so, I'll make the usual request of the story and how long it took if you don't mind :)

 

My PR is a good place to find information on that. Most of what we know about the Tibetans comes from Alexandra David-Neel's book Magic and Mystery in Tibet. Lower down on the first post of my PR, I have a sort of review/summary of the book, with quotes from the tulpa-related sections, and two links to where you can find the text online, if you want more than my quotes.

 

Hm, will do. Thanks.

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Pretty much.

 

I read somewhere that a good trick to recognize a separate consciousness from your own is to ask your tulpa to surprise you. If they're developed enough to manage it, they'll say or do something totally unexpected, so you'll definitely know that it's not your own thought.

 

 

...Like what? I don't want a surprise possession in the middle of the street 30 minutes after I asked for a surprise lol

 

Well, you could, but I'm not sure it's totally necessary. While Ex and Kael's voices definitely sound more unlike my own (being male), Pinky and Sunray are both female but I can still differentiate their voices from my own rather well. Pinky probably sounds the closest to my own voice than any of the others, but I can still tell her apart from my self -- probably mostly because of the fact that I'm not controlling her thoughts.

 

So the feel of control is the main factor you use to determine? This seems to be the answer I usually get, how strong is that feeling of lack of control over the words being thought when one of your tulpas is speaking?

 

A lot of it probably has to do with the fact that my first three tulpas (Pinky, Sunray and Ex) were all created accidentally, before I even came to this site and really learned about the whole tulpa phenomenon. (So believe me that when I did come to this site and realized that so many other people had sentient thoughtforms like mine, my jaw hit the floor.) Pinky in particular was probably the slowest to form, since she was my first and I don't remember what exact time in my life she started to develop. But I remember that Sunray, for one, developed sentience almost immediately, if I recall correctly. And again, all of this was before I knew that people made a conscious effort to create such beings. All my accidental tulpas were created -- I believed at the time -- by my own subconscious without any effort on my part, even if it's clear looking back on it that a lot of what I did back then could easily be considered passive forcing.

 

3 accidental tulpas?! I definitely have to hear the story behind this one. Also, how much time (on average) was there between each creation?

 

Anyway, by the time I created Kael (the first tulpa that I made a conscious effort to create), I was able to visualize him almost immediately, seeing him do things that seemed to be at least partially of his own control and not mine. Later that very same night, probably only a couple hours later max, I heard his first words. I was very impressed and surprised with myself! I figured that a lot of it had to do with the fact that I already had tulpas, so I was familiar with what to expect, but then I realized that a lot of people here take much longer to develop even their second, third, etc tulpas.

 

Really, though, the fact that I was able to accidentally create tulpas in the first place probably just points towards some sort of natural talent. Everyone's brain is wired differently, after all, and I guess some people are just better-wired for tulpa development. I will say, though, that while "hearing" and visualizing my tulpas came very naturally, I'm a lot weaker in other areas of development. For example, I've never experienced any visual or auditory hallucinations from my tulpas (all I've gotten are some very vague and ghost-like tactile hallucinations, though most of them seem to fall more under the category of "phantom tail syndrome"), so, even if your tulpa takes longer to develop initially, you might find that there are other stages in development that come a lot more easily to you.

 

That's interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what are your strengths and weaknesses in general, like are you a more imaginative person, good at math, sports, etc?

feel free to completely ignore this question, just putting it out there in case you feel like answering it :)

 

My end-game goal is having a fully developed tulpa that I can see and hear with my actual ears and eyes. I realize that might take a while, but it sounds like it's totally worth it.