Ask Lumi's Tulpas

[michael2]

exactly xD

[Luminesce]

  Modified quote from PM:

2 hours ago, Shikileaf said:

The help I want to ask is about switching. About switching, I read about your experience with switching, and I think that, maybe, I am switching as you do. Me and my tulpa change positions easily. She associates herself with the body(or I force her association), and my voice goes to the back. The Body feels like he is her body.

 

But I, sometimes, fear that I am not doing it as you do, because you said that your emotions do not intrude in the awareness of the tulpa when he is in the front. My emotions invade my tulpa awareness frequently, but she feels that they are not her emotions, so she can reject them. I think that maybe this is normal in my system, also because we started switching a week a go, so maybe this is normal in the beginning.

 

I also have other two problems, so I want to ask what action you take to do a switch in your system, to see if I am doing something wrong. So, what action do you take to switch? Is it association only? Or do you do something more?

 

* {A note for those with aphantasia (those who cannot visualize) - I'm 100% sure switching is still possible as long as the rest of tulpamancy has been going well for you. Visualization symbolism is just the most obvious and natural way most people will do it, but you can probably figure out your own way too. The act of visualization is not required, it just helps guide the process.}

 

 

We don't experience any emotional bleed (and when I'm switched out, unless they're actively talking to me, I'm basically gone) - however, that doesn't mean that our brain's established thought patterns, that often fit me a lot more than they fit them, don't cause thoughts they don't identify with. Pretty much not-identifying-with-them/consciously saying those thoughts aren't you {the tulpa} is the way to go, there. With a lot of practice switching it should become more and more natural for your tulpa to be themselves while switched without interference from your own thought patterns. For actual emotional bleed (like if you're still active while they're switched in, and they feel feelings that are yours they don't identify with) - I don't have any experience with that, and all you can do is keep practicing separateness.

 

And yes, a week is certainly not long enough to become fully comfortable being switched in my opinion. I'd say 2 to 3 months is a good point, assuming relatively frequent practice, to no longer be experiencing any real problems. Though some people will fare much better right off the bat (as I said, we've never experienced emotional bleed, just some basic thought pattern stuff that mainly Tewi strongly disagreed with and worked to reshape to her liking over time), others may take longer. The amount of practice you do (the frequency and longevity of your switching) and your consciousness in managing thoughts you don't identify with ("That's not me", "This is me") will greatly affect how long it takes to become fully comfortable when switched. Also, taking a break/not switching for long periods of time (relative to how often is normal for you guys, a few weeks is normally when I think of loss-of-progress to start kicking in) can make switching again rougher, ie harder for your tulpa to feel like themselves or having to deal with more of their host's thought patterns.

 

To switch, we visualize (a mostly symbolic process leading to an otherwise indescribable-in-words "click" in our brain) ourselves first leaving the body to the side and into the mindspace (whatever is the natural place your tulpas inhabit - the wonderland for some people, and a sort of half-real-half-imagined space centered around the body for us). So for example, when I'm switching out I visualize my self - and very importantly, my sense of self - moving out of my body (but I more naturally say "the body" now) to the side, and I make sure I'm mentally associated with where that is. So, feeling like I'm personally out to the left of the body, I might look over in the visualization and say something to my tulpa, and they might say something back. Then, they do the reverse process, fully aware and identified with where it feels they are (for us, to the right of the body), and then they move to overlap with the body, and move their perspective/sense of self to the head. Then when they open the body's eyes, the switch sort of snaps into place for us.

 

Any time after I switched out, but especially once my tulpa has switched in, I'm then effectively a tulpa and they can visualize and communicate with me the same ways I always do for them. I think talking to each other at the various points of this process also helps with the dissociation and association processes, so that you don't just feel like you're visualizing "yourself" but are still associated with being right in the middle of your head where you always are.

 

But, y'know, it's all super subjective et cetera et cetera. Assuming this exact process works for anyone else, they could still have better results (and probably will) by modifying it a bit to fit them. And since the whole thing is symbolic anyways, any process at all that led up to that dissociation and association clicking in their head would be fine. And for all I know, some people's methods of switching are more gradual, and the dissociation and association only solidifies over a short amount of time once the tulpa begins fronting or something.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Luminesce

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

I'm 100% sure switching is still possible as long as the rest of tulpamancy has been going well for you. Visualization symbolism

 

Coming from a hyperphantasia system, I also agree you don't need visualization at all. If it was even an advantage to use visualization, you know we would, but it just tends to be a distraction. 

 

In the beginning, anything can happen, but after a year or so of switching it should feel perfectly natural.

 

We experience emotional bleed depending on the position. If the headmate is in "watcher" position, they're somewhat dissociated with emotions at all. If they're "way back", no bleed will occur, they're in a completely dissociated space. In "tulpa" position, it's normal to bleed emotions forward (headmate to fronter), but not backwards (front to headmates).

 

35 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

basically gone

 

This is dormancy in our case and it happens naturally when someone like Joy fronts. Otherwise Ashley and I will keep everyone in mind.

 

38 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

To switch, we visualize

 

I'm surprised you still would after all this time. It's as instant as a new thought with us. Even when we first started, we had more issues with "accidentally" switching in than needing to think about it in any visual way.

 

We also have very little accumulated time in front, maybe 20 minutes a week. Co-fronting and eclipsing or even blending is way more common.

 

 

 

[Shikieli]

Luminesce(I dont know how to quote), I think that it is impressive the fact you don't experience emotional bleed, it proves that your switching is consistent. Now, the actions you take to switch are a lot different from the way we do. We just change the body association, and this is my fear because it is like roleplaying. We push her to the front, impersonating her feeling in the body. She knows that she is in front because she feels a sensation that she is in front, not because the brain switched our positions. I don't know the details of your experience, but if you feel a click, then it seems like a lock, that your tulpa is locked in the front, but I may be wrong in my understanding about your experience. When she is in the front, she feels emotions that she can relate. Sometimes she sees the world a little different too, but all this can be a little of a placebo. We will think more about switching, if we are doing it correctly or not. Thanks for the reply, lumi. :)

Edited July 17, 2021 by Shikileaf

[Luminesce]

Tulpamancy's all about belief. Believe something strongly and consistently enough, and it'll start to become effectively real. For any exclusively mental phenomena, anyway.

 

14 minutes ago, SheShe said:

I'm surprised you still would after all this time. It's as instant as a new thought with us.

 

We can switch ~instantly (5 seconds or so), but it's not as good for making sure nothing gets mixed up and all. I consider it "bad practice", in the opposite of how I consider talking to each other before, during and after the process "good practice".

[Shikieli]

4 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Tulpamancy's all about belief. Believe something strongly and consistently enough, and it'll start to become effectively real. For any exclusively mental phenomena, anyway.

 

I believe what you say. We will try other methods and see what feels better for us, but impersonating(like we do) and visualization(your method) are the only ones that I can think of for now.

[Shikieli]

@Luminesce We tried your switch method and our switch feels very different. My tulpa does not lose the front so easily now, and she stays in the front without effort. Now it really feels like a switch, but we are still experience a little emotional bleed sometimes, but much less. One problem we are having with your method is that my tulpa feels like her sense of identity is like mine when she is switched in. With the older method, her sense of identity is very different from mine. Do your tulpas experience a similar sense of identity with you, when switched in, in your system? What do you think about the experience, with the sense of identity, that we are having? Is it normal?

Edited July 20, 2021 by Shikileaf

[Luminesce]

Uh, I can't actually experience what you're experiencing so I have no idea what it's actually like for you guys. But the sense of identity switching for us is very clear and immediate. Maybe you should like.. Try to mix the two methods, assuming you're seeing improvements with ours?

 

Ironically I can't say I have experience with this sort of thing, because we literally just set a desired outcome and created the most intuitive method for ourselves right off the bat. We never had to mess with other methods or ideas or anything, so I don't really know what that's even like.

[Shikieli]

20 minutes ago, Luminesce said:

Try to mix the two methods, assuming you're seeing improvements with ours?

Thanks man, we tried to mix and it worked.  Now We'll observe and see if it stays constant for the next few days.😊

[Ranger]

@Emotional bleed

 

We do experience emotional bleed, but it's weird and not actually exclusive to switching. There was one time I possessed and I felt really upset, and Gray spent a lot of time thinking about it and feeling upset for me. Once we started switching, it became more noticable when my emotions bled. Gray once again processed how I was feeling, but this time he was doing it for a lot longer, processing my emotions for me. I don't remember the last time I processed Gray's emotions recently, but I remember seeing something political and hearing Gray's mindvoice start to make me uncomfortable. I remember feeling what Gray felt, and at the time it threatened if not destabilized my switch (because it tested my confidence).

 

Similar to emotional bleed, we have an experience I call a "ghost" where we have thoughts that don't seem to belong to us. When our brain is spinning, it seems to also simulate our personalities. Since I have started switching, our brain will sometimes spew my thoughts when either of us zone out. I learning that this is normal and to not lose my switching conference over it was important.

 

The only other experience similar to emotional bleed is our autopilot. At first I wasn't convinced we had an experience where our body seems to interact with others by itself without a personality telling it what to do, but after working I learned that we do have a "mode" our brain switches to when doing somewhat mindless and repetitive tasks while also freeing up resources to think. It's not important to know who I am when I'm working, and me thinking while waving and doing other habitual tasks clogs up resources for solving problems. I had to learn that it's okay if I naturally act or sound like my host, this is part of my body and not Gray. The reason I had so much trouble was because I have quite a bit of switching anxiety and I never had to deal with my autopilot for extended periods of time before I started working.

 

---

 

On 7/20/2021 at 11:56 AM, Shikileaf said:

One problem we are having with your method is that my tulpa feels like her sense of identity is like mine when she is switched in. With the older method, her sense of identity is very different from mine. Do your tulpas experience a similar sense of identity with you, when switched in, in your system? What do you think about the experience, with the sense of identity, that we are having? Is it normal?

 

I think it's normal for a tulpa to feel like their sense of self while switched-in changes while switched-out. I found switching to feel like a violation to my sense of identity at times. However, I have also had experiences with switching where I felt a lot like myself.

 

I find possession to be the perfect state for me, I'm not attached to the body's programming in the same way, I'm more dissociated from it. I could be biased however. I learned to be comfortable with possession long before I achieved switching, and I have slowly started to appreciate switching more recently.