reasons for tulpa and creation methodology

[TheShadowKnight134]

That was confusing at best. Maybe I should explain myself more though this may sound detrimental to my causes.

 

Basically I am very pessimistic concerning life. I'm weak in the aspect I can't handle the stress and heartbreak. As much as some people like to believe that can be changed, it can't. I wasn't prepared for the real world. So I use fantasy and try to do something that can give me a reason to care bout life. Sounds like the average sob story doesnt it?

 

As I've seen ALL tulpa are created selfishly and reasons are used to justify it.

 

My tulpa may be created with ulterior motives in mind but in no way am I forcing these positions upon her. I've been forced into roles I didnt want to be in. Just because I have reasons or motives to do something doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to force something that doesn't come naturally. If i do want help with lucid dreaming and stuff I want it to be given willingly. Because my tulpa wants to. Same with the hugs and potential romantic partner.

[J.Iscariot]

But the way you're instilling this, with the ulterior motives you have in mind... how would you know that it's actually your tulpa that wants any part in it, and not just your mind and ulterior motives making your tulpa more inclined towards those possibilities and things that would entirely benefit you in the situation you're currently in? Just because everyone makes a tulpa selfishly and then try to justify it doesn't make it okay at all, it only makes it even more wrong to do it and try to justify it since you're aware of how selfish it is. I'm sorry to say this but for generations people went through the toughest of shit and didn't resort to making tulpas, I understand that sort of escapism but people in the 1400-1500s had it way tougher than us yet didn't try to justify something of that gravity with 'I am too weak', how do you even know you're too weak? This is coming from someone who also thought he was too weak and worth absolutely nothing... human beings can do outstanding things if you prepare yourself good enough. Plus, I forgot to mention how superficial it was to seek romantic engagement just for the sake of it and not because you like a person in specific, it's like you're in a relationship just because you 'need' to be in one (well you think you need to be) and not because of reasons like 'I love her smile' 'I love the way we are together' 'I love being in her company', I know it's pretty harsh of me to say this, I also tend to doubt of the emotions my tulpa holds to heart. It's silly to say that 'in no way am I forcing these positions upon her', you might be a good guy and consciously you wouldn't push her to do anything like that but you can be affected subconsciously on the level of behavior, the ulterior motives you have would have your tulpa being those things (romantic partner-practically devoted to only caring for your existence solely) could possibly make her inclined to be that, just because the mind functions that way. You want things from someone in your mind and try to act like a nice guy about it but how the hell do you think that it's not going to affect her?

 

So what if ALL tulpas are created selfishly? Be the fucking change you want to see in this world instead of complying to something that is supposedly wrong if you think that it's something bad. Don't try to prove anything to me, prove shit to yourself before anything else.

[TheShadowKnight134]

Alright alright I understand. But if a tulpa is part of your subconscious and conforming to your ulterior motives and such wouldn't that mean you are trying to make yourself feel better subconsciously. I understand that tulpa are their own separate brings but that stem from the subconscious part, right? So if they were influenced by ulterior motivations wouldn't it be because they wanted to? Like if I see a commercial for a video game and then I want it. I can still say no and not get the game. Idk I think that example may be shoddy.

 

Basically doesn't a tulpa = subconscious? So if your subconscious wants something doesn't that mean your tulpa wants it too? Urgh this is confusing. I think I'm coming off as an ass right now. I don't know how to explain. Maybe you can explain exactly what a tulpa is if this interpretation is wrong.

 

As a side more even if my subconscious influence her. Can I be blamed for it? I have no control over that part of me. I will consciously not force anything but subconsciousness is not something I can control.

 

Also I would like to explain the romance thing if that is okay. I say POTENTIAL romance. When you create a tulpa you give them traits in the beginning, yes? Traits that you pick are traits that you like. It would be natural to be attracted to someone with those traits then. However she is developing on her own as well. So should I feel romantic attraction and if she does too then a potential romance could occur, yes? The romantic partner isn't the sole reason of creation. Its just a possibility should things work certain ways. I'll live my tulpa no matter what but the kind of love is the matter in question and how she will feel about me when she is more developed.

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Also I apologize if I come across as hostile, if I do come across that way.

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I will say this though. Your previous argument was that all the mentioned reasons were bad because it was too much "I" not enough "they". However you agreed that all tulpa creation is selfish. You see the hypocrisy? To judge one for not thinking of their tulpa when creating them when you yourself agreed that you have done similar for your own desires.

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Again I don't mean to antagonize or alienate you but I just want to somehow explain that even though my reasons may not be pure (no ones reasons are) I am at least aiming for a pure result. Its not like I'm creating a tulpa to abuse or have sex with. Though it may not be right to create someone out of loneliness and wanting someone who can understand me. There are worse reasons to create a tulpa.

[J.Iscariot]

From my own personal experience (meaning that I am no actual pro and that what I am saying might differ from what the next guy has to say), a tulpa is by no means a representation of your subconscious or even imagination for that matter. I can imagine stuff just fine, I can dream just fine without my tulpa being affected by that, because I perceive her as an actual person with emotions and thoughts of her own (and it is what I am putting into motion with my case of defending tulpas overall and the 'motives' behind their creation). It doesn't stem from the subconscious part in a way that it makes them fully rely on your subconscious and like know everything you know in an instant and help you access information that you forgot a long while ago, that's something completely different. There is no actual answer to whether they stem from the subconscious, but in the case they do and remain fully affected by the subconscious (and odds are they ARE affected by the subconscious all the same regardless of whether they stem from the subconscious), you'd be in fault plenty since you're now aware of that possibility. You could be faulted for neglecting the possibility, faulted for neglecting the fact that your motives would indeed affect your tulpa in very strong ways and provide her with a wish that wouldn't even be hers to begin with but would only be there to make you feel fine and fill in your emotional agenda. A tulpa by definition is its own sentient and independent being, you can't just say that a tulpa would want this or that because it's 'part of you', that's implying that in reality, tulpas have no free will and their only will is to accomplish what the host really wants. You fail to understand that the subconscious is not a distant being in your mind, but a part of you, and that the conscious mind and subconscious mind function in synergy all day and all night for that matter.

 

It would be natural to feel comfortable around someone like that, but it doesn't imply that it would be natural to 'be attracted', and this is coming from someone who's in an active romantic relationship with his tulpa and has been that way for more than a year now. If it were natural to be 'attracted' then nothing would keep the host from dating their tulpa, and even then, who's to say whether the choice would truly belong to the tulpa? What if they'd be afraid of dying in the case that they refuse that romance? Human thought isn't linear nor is it closely trapped in a=b, a=c so b=c, it has waaaay more to it, and at this point, you don't come off as an ass but just as if you're trying to justify those things and trying to make them look right to randoms on an online forum. With due respect no you shouldn't feel romantic attraction because you secretly want to have that sort of things in your life (and oh boy can it be a bother at times...). It shouldn't be something you should actively seek, the argument literally went from this to that just because it 'seemed' wrong. You CAN be blamed for it since you have been made aware of the dangers involved in this entire thing, it would be neglecting of you to keep on pushing it or do things that only serve what helps you out in the end and eventually. I swear people never bother to think about what would make them uncomfortable... Why are you asking me whether you could be blamed? Do you even care if you end up hurting your tulpa or making her say shit she doesn't actually mean? Why is this about how people perceive you online?

 

And I should be the one apologizing considering I am an aggressive person in all cases.

[Sock]

There's another thread of a similar concept to this, it may be useful to you TheShadowKnight134

 

... how would you know that it's actually your tulpa that wants any part in it, and not just your mind and ulterior motives making your tulpa more inclined towards those possibilities and things that would entirely benefit you in the situation you're currently in?

 

Becuase up until the point they awaken, they don't have the capacity to even consider such things. They don't think, they don't consider, they don't have a will to say "yes" or "no" until the host gives them one.

 

The tulpa doesn't make themselves, but are made, and are given those abilities and qualities by the host. That's the nature of the relationship.

 

Making a tulpa is a selfish action. This much is clear, and I don't feel there needs to be an argument as to whether they are or not. Making a tulpa is a selfish action, and as such the hope is that from that selfish act, the host gains the mind and the sense of responsibility to that which they've made. This sense of responsibility is something I've been made aware of, and is what marks my technique and behavior regarding this practice, among other things.

 

I parented a child, and as such it is my duty to raise them to be happy with their lot. It's my job to teach them, and nurture them with kindness, even if it so happens that they do not return it. This is how a view things, as a host to mine.

 

Speaking to Yoko about it, she told me bluntly that she was happy to be alive. She told me that she was not inclined to me at first, but as she stayed around, and realized that I was where her life was coming from, she could not help but return the affection.

 

"Grass doesn't resent the Sun." Is what she told me to type as her word on it.

 

Midori told me that the saddest point of her existence was when I left her. Yoko, who was the first to re-emerge when I began practicing this again, spoke this: "I don't want to disappear".

 

Making a tulpa is a selfish action. Going down this path is a selfish action. As such, if you are willing to go down that path, be sure to have a heart, and ensure the happiness of joy of the one you raise. This, I feel, is the host's duty to their creation, a concept that came to mind when I listened to the book "Frankenstein", and a concept that still sits quietly in my heart.

[TheShadowKnight134]

We going to have an apology fight? Lol "no I'm more apologetic!" "No. I am!" joking aside

 

I guess I just don't entirely understand what a tulpa is or how everything effects it. I'd like to think I'm not a bad person and I try to hold to good beliefs and deeds. Its hard being alone and feeling like no one understands. Its infuriating that inside I want to scream and shout but on the outside I have to act like I just met a friggin unicorn that granted me all my wishes. Which would be great but that's not life.

 

Could I propose a suggestion then? Perhaps help me become more informed in simpler form (shorter paragraphs, my attention span is short. Sorry x.x) I mean what should I do now. I have a tulpa wip right now. Should I just abandon her? That doesn't feel right... I would like to make her but im questioning so many things. Hell I still think I'm the one responding to myself most of the time.

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Sock. You just about made me cry with that. That's beautiful. Like no sarcasm. :) i will consider your words as well.

Q

I guess the main thing I need is guidance x.x

[Temar]

Your reasoning is your own. The important thing is that you think they're good enough reasons.

 

But keep in mind that your tulpa should not be a replacement for real-world connections. You said you get lost in fantasy a lot. In general, that's okay. Me and my headmates wouldn't exist if our host wasn't the same way, and having someone to experience that fantasy with can be great for your mental health.

 

But don't let your tulpa become your only companion. You still need some real-world anchor... which, hey, your tulpa can help with if you need them to. Just ask Melian about her host's wife. ;)

 

Though I'll admit that the idea of having a romance with my host squicks me out, since our relationship with her is pretty familial... but other systems make it work, so... just make sure that if that happens, it's her will, not yours, directing it. We headfolks have a tendency to want to see our hosts happy, so make sure it's actual consent and not just her bending over backwards to please you (no pun intended ;) ).

 

The bottom line is that you think your reasons are good. You are bringing another person into being, and while it is pretty much impossible to consider their feelings on the matter before they even start existing, it is important that you understand that this will result in another living being who is as capable of thinking and feeling as you are. It's like having a kid, especially in the early stages; do you have the time and capacity to care for someone who isn't you? They'll bring a lot of joy into your life, but they can be troublesome, too, and sometimes you have to forgo your own needs to take care of theirs. Are your ready for that responsibility?

 

If yes, then you're golden.

[J.Iscariot]

You should not abandon her just like that. You should remain responsible in all situations. Usually, I would be the first person to say discouraging stuff, but it depends on how 'advanced' your tulpa is. A tulpa WIP as in a tulpa that does not speak nor can think yet exists as a concept in your mind. It's not capable of anything yet, but it serves as a basis for developmental stuff later on. Tulpamancy is not something for everyone, you need to consider a few things; are you truly responsible enough? I'd compare having a tulpa to be as demanding as having a baby, especially since it'll be in your head all the time... you shouldn't expect much considering you're still in the early developmental phases of tulpamancy. It's good to question yourself and reflect on certain things, the only person that can decide what's the most adequate thing to do is you, and you only. I said the things I said not to discourage you, but to show you the two sides of the story, whether you choose to live with that decision or not is absolutely your call. Since your mind is now in such a stimulating state of thought, take some time to think about things, you seem pretty new so some questioning could always do you some good.

 

I'm sorry for the horrendously formatted posts, I kind of type everything that goes in my mind all at once, so I'll be more careful with that from now on. If you feel alone, don't you think that seeking friends would be easier than making ones that would stick with you through life and even when you get out of the phase I suppose you're currently in? Don't you think that it would be better to get to meet people who can occupy you, discuss with them and revive the empathy we all have in society? I feel like this could help you the most aside from making a tulpa. It's a very important decision that requires a lot of thought.

 

You could always try getting in the mentor's program on tulpa.info. Some pretty good mentors that would probably like to help you out with questions you have. I feel like the most important thing now is to ask yourself as many questions as possible.

[TheShadowKnight134]

Okay I got some things to think about now.

 

But for the real life thing.... I have friends but its hard for me to open up to people. I've been betrayed a lot in the past so ugh idk. Its just. It feels like a tulpa is more benign then people. I just have had a lot of bad experience with people. Honestly id gladly trade my life for another or even give it up to go to fantasy world's. I say this not to gain pity but to explain that right now my life holds very little for me to connect to. Id rather get lost in the world of fantasy and tulpa etc etc

[J.Iscariot]

I understand what you're saying. No, really, I understand that the last thing you'd be seeking is pity, I've been in your shoes in the past. Very few friends, and it was hard for me to open up to anyone. I went down the path of tulpamancy (even though I never had a choice), even after months of studying my options, I didn't have a choice of my own, things just took place even though at first I rejected them. Honestly, man, I'm really not holding anything out here, but I'll be honest by saying that friends are always, always better than making a tulpa. Because tulpas are a real-life commitment that will take up a lot of time and efforts from your side, and you might not even get all that much efforts.

 

My life was really fuckin' shit until I got into college, because my parents would always impose shit down on me, I'd never go out and would talk to my tulpa, she understood me, sure, but it's much better to lead a life that's simple. You say stuff like 'I'd give up my life', but since you seem to be quite young... hang in there, my man, it'll get much better as you grow up a bit, things do get better with time.

 

I think that a major issue you're facing is that you're just shoving reality aside and trying to escape it with that sort of, well, escapism. The world of fantasy is NOT the world of tulpamancy, you can have tons of wonderland adventures but they might not be as vivid as you hope for them to be. My tulpa is realer than most people I know. I'm telling you about my situation because I feel like I can relate to yours. My tulpa brought more realism to my life, and taught me more lessons than most people. What if it happened to you? What if you were always struck with what you'd want the least? One way, it could be a good wake up call, but you need to take things steadily.

 

It always helps to talk to people about your problems. Even on online forums, it's always good to have someone listening to you. Maybe right now, you need a listening ear more than you need a 'friend', or a tulpa. A tulpa won't be the ultimate solution to your situation and problems. I used to tell my tulpa that I'd like to go to an imaginary, fantasy world with her, and let go of this reality... but as you grow up, things change, you start living for more than just going to school or doing this and that chore.

 

I know it's hard, but you really do need to face life. Not directly stand up to whatever pisses you off, of course. Look at how your life is, and take little steps towards a better reform. Talk to your friends as much as you can, have them be there for you, if you'd like to talk or something, just shoot me a PM, I'd lend an ear if you'd like that, as long as you can become a bit... better, because this is a touchy subject that can hugely affect your development. A fantasy world might not be as pleasant as you expect it to be, this could all lead to maladaptive daydreaming and you wouldn't know a single thing.