Can I work on sentience now?

[Sands]

*DON'T* assume you're puppeting if you see him move during a session. If you're not consciously shoving his limbs around, it's him -- *even* if he's doing what you just thought of. If you briefly imagine them doing something, they'll likely see it, know you're basically asking them to do it, and do it for you.

 

(How do I know that last bit? Yesterday I did a test. I imagined Lyra moving a little, and she did. I asked her if I was controlling her -- she said no. Sometimes when I do this she chooses to do something else instead. I then more forcefully imagined her leg moving -- this was a very distinct conscious effort, something I do not do automatically. This got a response more like "WTF why you do that?!" THIS is puppeting. It is not something you do automatically without thinking. The difference is between gently suggesting visually that she do something, and manhandling her into doing it whether she wants to or not.)

 

I would know that too, actually being the one thought about doing something and I'm not even a tulpa. It created a copy - for me at least - that did the things that were imagined by someone else. Weird, but I could tell which one of us was the copy and which one was the real me, obviously, though I shared the feelings of both. I didn't always do the things I was thought of because well, some were weird and at the time I had no idea what all this was about before we had a chat about puppeting with some tuppers, but sometimes it did seem like a good idea so I actually did the action. I assume tuppers look at it the same way, do it if it feels or sounds good when they see what you're asking them to do in your thoughts.

 

It is not puppeting. I would've actually been forced to do the movements if it were.

[Chupi]

I would know that too, actually being the one thought about doing something and I'm not even a tulpa. It created a copy - for me at least - that did the things that were imagined by someone else. Weird, but I could tell which one of us was the copy and which one was the real me, obviously, though I shared the feelings of both. I didn't always do the things I was thought of because well, some were weird and at the time I had no idea what all this was about before we had a chat about puppeting with some tuppers, but sometimes it did seem like a good idea so I actually did the action. I assume tuppers look at it the same way, do it if it feels or sounds good when they see what you're asking them to do in your thoughts.

 

It is not puppeting. I would've actually been forced to do the movements if it were.

 

Similarly not a tulpa... I don't know what the "copy" thing is like, but I believe I have experienced actual puppeting. I was in the wonderland one day and just started moving. I tried but couldn't stop it. I also kept getting jolted out of first-person view as I took unexpected turns.

[Bluesleeve]

Hello Leopard, you won't "screw" a Tulpa up. Basically you are doing the personality to prevent deviation.

 

If you think you are ready, go ahead and talk to your Tulpa. However, I wouldn't recommend using my method as a beginner, especially not without guidance, as it is throwing you in at the deep end of the mental world.

 

Good Luck!

[Chupi]

Basically you are doing the personality to prevent deviation.

 

Huh? I see doing personality as more of suggesting something, and giving the tulpa something to start with. Whether you force personality or let it grow on its own, it will still likely deviate.

[Bluesleeve]

 

Huh? I see doing personality as more of suggesting something, and giving the tulpa something to start with. Whether you force personality or let it grow on its own, it will still likely deviate.

 

Yes, that's true as well. If you want a solid base, you focus on the personality. Still, the more you work on a trait, the less likely it will deviate.

If you don't have an idea of the character you are creating and start narrating from the start, there will be no "traditional deviation" because there never was a draft which could have been changed.

 

It depends on how you see deviation, though. I see it as a comparison of the original plan and the outcome. If the Tulpa has different attributes than it "should" have, that's deviation. Some people see deviation as the real time process (Tulpas suddenly changing appearance), which is also true, but I try to look at it from a more general perspective.

[TWBronyWolf]

eopard: Ignore the hour counts and "nothing will happen before this many hours" bunk. It will only screw you up. This cost me at least two months and we're still recovering from the damage. As for sentience, he already is. You just need to work on noticing that sentience and communicating with it -- this is what narration and continued forcing do.

 

*DON'T* assume you're puppeting if you see him move during a session. If you're not consciously shoving his limbs around, it's him -- *even* if he's doing what you just thought of. If you briefly imagine them doing something, they'll likely see it, know you're basically asking them to do it, and do it for you.

 

(How do I know that last bit? Yesterday I did a test. I imagined Lyra moving a little, and she did. I asked her if I was controlling her -- she said no. Sometimes when I do this she chooses to do something else instead. I then more forcefully imagined her leg moving -- this was a very distinct conscious effort, something I do not do automatically. This got a response more like "WTF why you do that?!" THIS is puppeting. It is not something you do automatically without thinking. The difference is between gently suggesting visually that she do something, and manhandling her into doing it whether she wants to or not.)

 

The same thing applies to if you appear to be getting thoughts from him. Parroting thoughts does appear to be easier to do automatically than puppeting (Lyra somewhat disagrees with this). But most parroted thoughts feel pretty obvious and there's no question as to who is was. If you're talking to him and an answer or comment pops into your head, it's likely him; even (especially?) if it happens while you're in the middle of saying something or formulating how to say something. If you have to wonder whether a thought was from you or him, it's probably him. (Again, this is from talking with Lyra... she says that almost nothing but the most obvious cases are actual parroting. Obvious parroting feels more like "talking for" something in my mind that I know cannot speak, and I feel myself consciously create the thoughts. Thoughts from her simply appear in my mind without me trying to make them, aside from simply listening for them and being ready to "hear" them when they show up.)

 

Here is my experience getting stuck in the parrot/puppet trap because of the hour counts and warnings in FAQ_Man's guide.

 

Do not fear parroting or puppeting. You aren't doing them. If you fear them, you will do them -- VERY forcefully holding your tulpa still and forcing him to be silent.

 

 

 

 

 

thx i needed to know that!

 

 

 

 

ps i dont know how to quote any help?

[Phi]

http://i.imgur.com/1qUGn.png

[TWBronyWolf]

ahh thx

[Oguigi]

if FAQ_Man's guide hour counts are publicly agreed to be a bad thing.

 

Then Why can't a mod or Admin go to his guide and update it!

 

(Censor the hour counts)

(Give a clearer explanation of whats puppeting and whats not) faq guide

does a very good job giving newbies an irrational fear of puppeting that

hurts progress!

 

Or maybe just replace that guide all together. Theirs soo much information in the forums that

can be pooled together to make a Superior guide.

 

faq_man guide REALLY needs a update, I mean so many people view it that some even think that this website is his. if any guide gets a special place in this website that transcend the forums, It should be nothing less then the best

[Bin]

We should definitely not go the route of a single omnipotent guide. I think we need some kind of system where we can upload guides and rate/comment on them. Have a voting system so we can vote to have guides removed or placed into some kind of "questionable" or "outdated" sections. sort of like an upgrade from the current Guides board I guess.