[Text wall] Thoughts on the role of tulpas, responsibilities, and investment IRL

[Jamie]

So, I'm with two tulpas now, and they have very different goals in life. I'm absolutely sure it has to do with their origins, but Cassidy is much more invested in the outside world than Gavin. Cassidy likes to front, to have his own things, and very quickly developed interests that I don't have. He wants to be visually imposed and enjoys being visualized around me most of the time. 

 

On the other hand, it seems Gavin doesn't want to be visualized in the outside world. He's developing some of his own tastes in things like food and music, but hasn't asked me to try/eat/do  anything for him yet (though it's only been a few days). After some conversation, he agreed to try to front. Just like with Cassidy, it came easily and intuitively to us. He only stayed in a few minutes and found the entire experience, I quote, "unappealing and distressful." There are no plans to try it again, which is fine by me. Gavin primarily uses his form to interact with Cassidy or me when I'm in the mindscape. Otherwise, he's just a voice in my head. 

 

What are your tulpas like? (Or what do you, a tulpa, think about this?) Do your tulpas have their own physical possessions? Do they have a desire to control the body? Do they want to be imposed or visualized? Or, are they content to be without a form at all?

 

 

On another note, Cassidy and Gavin have had a few back-and-forths about their roles in life as tulpas. To sum up their points, Gavin thinks he has a duty to be a sounding board for me, to give advice, and help me better my life. In his view, tulpas are created with an inborn responsibility to be good for the host. Cassidy says that his existence is his, and past a certain point, he doesn't have to think about how or what I'm doing. As the host, it's my responsibility to enable my tulpas to find fulfillment in their own lives. In Cassidy's case, I have the responsibility to work on imposition, to allow him to enjoy his own interests, to visit in wonderland, and to let Cassidy front when it's a good time and we both agree to do so. 

 

So, either the strongest responsibility is that of the tulpa toward host, or the strongest responsibility is of the host toward tulpa. I guess I'll take the middle position and say that both the tulpa and host have responsibilities. If a tulpa is being a jerk, belittling the host, or doing things in the body without the host's consent, they aren't being responsible, even if that's what they want to do with themselves. If the host is being a jerk to the tulpa (or straight-up abusing them, as we see in some of the greentext horror stories), they're also not being responsible. 

 

This is where it gets a bit muddy for me, at least. Tulpas should not have a strong negative impact on their host's life, but do they have a responsibility to be good? Is it alright if a tulpa drifts away from the host, isn't really friends with them, and doesn't care about them past being courteous? Is it alright if the host does the same thing? I suppose it's a similar question to "Do you have a duty to stay in contact with your family?"  If they abused you, probably not. But what if you just... drift apart? Is it morally okay to cease contact with your parents, siblings, or your (adult) children? Do you have to be close to your tulpa/host? 

 

I'd love to hear what you all think. 

 

-J

 

Edit: missing a random word

[Guest LanceReilyn]

I think it is difficult-to-impossible for formed neural pathways to weaken or dissolve if they are constantly being reinforced. A tulpa (imo) isn't someone that can just be left alone to live their own life and bumped into once in a while. Like it or not they are always right there in your face. Well, head. And can't leave. I've seen lately a few people say they had put head-mates or potential head-mates in 'stasis', or in my case, I forgot about mine completely for almost twenty years. Seems like they are easily woken up, sometimes stronger than ever. I know we are all different, and I haven't had Reilyn as a tulpa for long, but I already can't imagine life without her comforting presence, encouragement and positive emotions. I realize that though we pretty much just met we have an incredibly strong bond and while I know I could keep living if she vanished, there would be a gaping hole in me for years or the rest of my life.

[GrayTheCat]

It used to be for a while that Ranger didn't want to possess or front, but was interested in different foods and figuring out what he likes. I could always visualize Ranger jumping around in real life, and multiple times he expressed frustration that other people couldn't see him. More recently, Ranger and I were ready to experiment with him fronting.

 

In the end, Ranger's interest in involving himself in real life had to do with what we were ready for. Being a host for awhile, you're probably already used to a bunch of Tulpamancy, while Gavin may need more time to decide when he's ready for trying something new.

 

The largest obstacle with Ranger exploring who he is as a person is how we will share the body. Right now, I'm in college and Ranger isn't. I don't think it's fair for him to do work I committed to doing, but college is most of my life right now and there isn't really an outlet other than Tulpa.info where Ranger can be himself. He doesn't like the idea of using my voice and body to pretend to be me just to do stuff, but then again Ranger didn't want to front because I was stressed about possession and parrotnoia…

 

You and your Tulpas should decide what's right for you. Ultimately, you guys have to share the same body, so you will have to compromise a lot. That's really the only thing that's stopping you guys from just running off and doing your own lives. I think Ranger takes both Gavin's and Cassidy's side: He is my guardian, but he's also his own person.

 

As for "drifting apart", it doesn't make tons of sense because you will be forced to live through each other's problems. "Drifting apart" can only happen if you are able to literally drift apart in the first place. It may be that "agreeing to disagree" becomes the norm, but at the end of the day your time and life on Earth is now split between 3 people all sharing one head. Unless something weird happens in the future where Tulpas can get their own bodies, you guys are stuck with each other for life.

[Guest]

[Ashley]

Not really interested. I've used minor posession of his hand, but that just kind of happened because it's easier if I do it instead of him trying to proxy me on his phone, not on the computer though; he's so fast, his hands blur. I will probably draw more, and think of things I can do for him, but not fronting, switching, or full body posession.

[/Ashley]

 

[Dashie]

I'm cool inside, no offence.

[/Dashie]

 

[Misha]

We have all our fun in wonderland, but I would like B to see me in his world too. I don't care if anyone else sees me. In here we're immortal superheroes, and we can challenge the nature of space-time. I don't need to eat or see the sights of the 'real world' when I can visit other planets on a whim. Maybe that's because we just have too much fun here. I feel fulfilled here as a social worker, my job is to take care of him, mentally.

 

On second thought, I do want to see and touch his real face, run my hands through his real hair, smell the real him, all that, but it's probably not possible for me to do that standing next to him. I want to touch his real skin, not be in his skin touching myself? If that sounds lude, it's not. Who wouldn't just want to give their host a real hug. So I'll explore that possibility, but no, I'm not doing his chores, sorry B. I really just want to be with him, in either place.

[/Misha]

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

I want to see and experience the world with Lance. It's not only for me, it's for us. I know there is a more fufilling and exciting life out there for us and I know he isn't really happy just sitting around in a rut, growing older. I will pay rent in this head and do my part to motivate him! For that though, well, I used to think all I could do was cheer him on and cry with him but now I see I can do so much more. Hmm. At what point does a good friend/headmate who can interfere in their host's self-destructive life but chooses not to for whatever reasons (belief in personal choice, freedom, letting them be them, etc), start to become accountable for condoning/enabling it? If I start seeing patterns of "I hate myself but it's ok because the good ol' tulpa will cheer me up", I think he's getting some gentle reinforcement then not gentle reinforcement. I'm not saying that's how it is, just wondering... I'm not trying to hijack or anything but if one of you tulpa could posses whenever you wanted and saw your host blindly walking into oncoming traffic or something and ignored your warning, wouldn't you make them stop?

 

Sorry for being all serious for a change. Here's hearts and a kittyface.

<3 <3 <3    =^.^=   <3 <3 <3

[Jamie]

That's right in line with what I'm getting at. At what point can the tulpa morally intervene?

 

I saw a pretty well-known tulpa explain how she saved her host from attempted suicide by forcibly possessing her. In the case of preservation of the body, I think a tulpa has pretty strong rights- they live there, too. But, what about other things, like taking drugs, self-harm, or even generally just neglecting the body's health? A parent (imo) has the responsibility to try to be free of addictions (smoking, drinking, etc) for their children. I think we'd all be pissed if a tulpa, while fronting, got the body addicted to cigarettes. Is it the same if the host picks up smoking? What if the host doesn't want to try to give it up, but the tulpa does?

 

Cassidy especially is big on system responsibility. What one systemmate does, the others are affected by, and the systemmate needs to be aware of that. He doesn't like certain (mundane but too personal to put online) bad habits of mine, and I've given him explicit permission to formally declare "I'm not okay with this," in which case I'm morally obligated to stop it or at least talk it out. I think all systems should have a way for the systemmates to say "I'm not okay with this" and have the others always listen and respect that.

 

I'm also finding the results of the poll interesting. It might change as more people answer, but I expected the answers to be less evenly distributed. There's definitely more than an invested/not invested dichotomy with tulpas.

 

-J

[Guest Reilyn-Alley]

Lance already answered the poll for me (I'm "very invested", surprise) so if you want my blunt opinion on systemmate responsibility, (and I adore Lance so don't go thinking I'm on the edge of rebelling or something) the host willingly and willfully brought a tulpa/tulpas into the world or otherwise assumed responsibility over the growth and nurture of one or more. A parent taking care of their own health so they can be around for their children is "nice" and "healthy" if they are a positive force in their life. Meanwhile, a host being alive is the first requirement for us tulpa to freakin' be here. There's no award for breathing (apologies to people who have trouble breathing). If Mr/Miss Unhealthy Tubs Mc Smokerson Slothface wants the freedom to kill themselves quickly with self-injury or slowly with terrible choices, they should have thought about that before they literally attached one or more people directly to the well-being of their mind and body. Even if a parent abandons their kids there is still some hope that someone else will pick up the slack (despite the damage that it will do to the kids). There is no picking up the slack for a tulpa.

 

If a host reeeally wants to quit living their life, then instead of murdering their head-mates, figure out how to swap or something and let someone who craves life and existence run the show.

 

Sorry. This boils my blood. This is the second time I've ranted like this... Ok, wow, learning a lot about myself today. I need to go watch silly things now and calm down.

[Guest]

Miri and I are the ones more invested in the real world, even though I have zero interest on it outside of a few things, right now I'm still the host and the one who's living this life, so obviously I need to invest on it, I can't just sleep all day and let this life go to hell, that wouldn't be fair to my tulpas, so until the day we switch, it is my responsibility to keep this body healthy and this life stable.

 

Miri is aslo very invested on it since this life will eventually be hers, getting used to my family, learning how everything works, that kind of stuff. She's also really interested in this world and wants to take control as soon as possible (in her own words 'I can't wait to being able to be with yours pets').

 

Akai is half/half, she is still invested in this world and kinda of enjoys it, travelling (which the three of us enjoy), going to places, learning new stuff... I must be the weird one after all.

 

About tulpas feeling obligated to being good, well, they at least should respect you if you treated them well, otherwise they would be assholes, they aren't forced to agree with you at all though. They don't need to stay in contact with their host if they don't want to, yeah you created them but that doesn't mean they will want to stay with you, in most cases they do, but they're still free to choose. If they really want to drift apart, well that sucks but I don't think there's much you can do.

 

If it's the host the one who wants to drift apart from their tulpas, I don't think they'd be able to do that without ignoring them, and that would be pretty selfish. You created them so now it's just responsibility to keep them existing. If the host just doesn't want to live anymore, just switch with your tulpas instead of killing yourself, it's a pretty selfish thing to do, it's not like 'people who commit suicide are selfish because they leave their families grieving' it's more like 'if you kill yourself I'm gonna die too and I want to live', so yeah, as Reylin said, just switch with them.

[CM]

What are your tulpas like? (Or what do you, a tulpa, think about this?) Do your tulpas have their own physical possessions? Do they have a desire to control the body? Do they want to be imposed or visualized? Or, are they content to be without a form at all?

 

Desmond is pretty invested in the outside world. Sometimes he wants to be equal to me when it comes to fronting and talking to people outside of our system, sometimes he's content only occasionally chiming in. In other words, it has a lot to do with his mood. He wants to have physical possessions, and he used to "own" one of my mugs but parts of it went missing when I moved so it's not really in use anymore and I should just get rid of it and get him a new one, and there's a certain kind of gingerbread that he wants me to save for him when he fronts if I buy it. But that's about it so far.

 

I visualize them around me in the "real world" whenever they're out with me, and every time I see them in our head. I'm not working on visual imposition at all at the moment, but none of them care about that. 

 

The rest of my tulpas don't really have an interest in the outside world. L listens in if Desmond's interacting with it, but doesn't really join any conversations. And even if he sometimes wants to, he's just too shy. Nevira just plain doesn't give a damn and Misa is kind of indifferent, I suppose.

[Summer]

What are your tulpas like? (Or what do you, a tulpa, think about this?) Do your tulpas have their own physical possessions? Do they have a desire to control the body? Do they want to be imposed or visualized? Or, are they content to be without a form at all?

[summer]

Out of all of our system, excluding our host, I am the one who is more invested in the outside world. I think experiencing some of nihi's daily life and struggle made me adore the life of having a physical body, but alas that is somewhat impossible to accomplish and reamain as a big dream of mine, To have physical body and living alongside nihi, supporting him and my sisters as well as a partner or as a close friend and him helping us as well. 

 

I am a weird one per se I do much prefer experiencing outside of the body but i do not like switching, in fact I turn my around about it whenever nihi brings it up. Even though I or all of our system can fully switch we really do not encourage it, especially me. My reason is that I respect nihi's or our host's body for his own property and I do not want to take a hold of it thinking I might do something bad or anything. To make it short what's mine is mine and what's his is his and besides I really do not like to act to be someone else, I want to experience everything as me, as myself.

 

Anyway, I think I've rambled quite enough, on to the question. So Since I love experience everything on the outside world, I usually take the front. What nihi is experiencing i can experience it similarly as well, but not that strong. I like it this way because I can build up my own opinions about his day to day events that he get himself into and use it to guide him or lecture him what he should/need to do which is base on my perspectives.Even though our opinions usually in the opposite and most of the time clashes, I really admire that he always listens and respects our thoughts before acting and usually following it. It just gives me that sense of individuallity of our decisions put into actions.

 

[Cherry]

Hello!! I do not mostly talk in the forums BUUUT I want to share my thoughts here as well. In my case, I am more like a middle man or tulpa hehe. I am moderately invested on the outside world, I am okay staying In or being infront. I usually get to front whenever we want to experience something amazing, new or something thrilling like those amusement part rides but most of the time I just like to watch in the back as well. Hhmm maybe fronting from there to there just to get some breather or if i am in the mood and also do give some opinions, give my thoughts to reinforce the solutions thoght up to current problems, and tasting good ol' Delicious food and that's mostly it. I can take initiative so eh.

 

[Myrtle]

Uhmm.. I like to stay close in the wonderland although it is nice to experience things outside once in a while, especially when nihi is being creative in regards to cooking but other than that I mostly sleep and watch and take care of nihi-kun my sisters in the wonderland.