Darlene's Tulpamancy and Spirituality Thread

[Guest]

That's a very good point Vesper, thanks for explaining it that way.

[tania]

 We are not in the present moving forwards in time. We are in the future, and we are determining our past. Consciousness first, physical world second. 

 

What we are always in is the "now" moment  and that now moment exists at every moment of time.. both the future and the present and the past.  Due to this is actually possible for all those points of time to meet at once, I have had that happen some to me on two occassions. I'll give examples of where this happened to me.

 

One day I was meditating and suddenly I found myself in the body of a past self of mine.. the thing was she was aware of me too and as my consciousness merged into her and her body (my past life self).. she experienced her future self and things here (me). My past self was aware.. I got to look out of her eyes and see what she had been looking at (she was standing up on a rise over looking her village, she/I was a native american medicine woman.. and I think was her and her power (my past self power) which initiated the contact between her and me.. me her future self.. she got to see into the future at what looked like a completely different world to her through my eyes. We both made mind contact with each other.. recognizing what each other was seeing and our other self. I'm in complete awe of her (my past me). That is one experience of two different now moments of time merging to become at the same now moment.

 

Another time when I experiences the course of how now moments can work out of normal time was I spontaneously when astral projecting found myself in my angelic form (I think I was with other angels) and I was sending healing directly at the women's prison in my state. I couldn't take on the angels consciousness outside of that body and form and lost it as soon as I regained human body and human form but from what I could gather I'd been doing that with the energy as it was very important for something. I only found out 20?? years later (I dont remember how many years later but it was a very long time) the reason why this was being done. I ended up a long time later in that very same prison as I sent myself to there due to horrific circumstances I was in and it was better to be there then at home. While I was in that prison.. that energy that my angel self had sent there.. I think was available some to me. That past time affected into that future time. I think my angel self had been sending the energy into the future at this future me... I think I was helping myself 20 years before I got there but my angel self had access to the future time and the energy could be sent to the future.

 

I've had another experience with what may be one of my selves but though it's an awesome experience which was able to alter the course of things and did, I wont share that at the time as I'm yet to still work out where this other (self???) I met fits in with things (unless it wasnt me and was a guide of some kind helping me get things) ..it could of been a future self working with me and helping me but I'm not sure yet but I had one (a part of me or one of my selves?) who knew the future worked with me and helped me with something.

 

So due to my experiences I do send energy both into my future and past times on purpose cause I understand how this all works some due to the experiences I've had. Things are not separate and do not be surprised if you get to meet your future or past self.

 

I thought your whole post was great. I could not have said things better myself.

 

Time can also glitch. I had that happen many years ago. I was at the computer talking to a friend when suddenly I found myself back in time with her saying all the same things which had been posted to me 15?mins before with all our previous conversation no longer there (I cant remember now the length of the time glitch but it was long enough to really freak me out and make it quite clear there had been a major glitch in time). The whole situation got scary as it didn't glitch once but glitched when it reached around the same point of time over and over and over. I think I relived that short space of time 6-7 times over. I really freaked out thinking I was going to be stuck in it forever.

 

I would try to post something entirely different back to my friend by changing topics but the conversation would end up going back the same way and then come to the exact same point of time in the conversation (with her saying the same things again) and then reglitch again taking me back about 15? mins again with the conversation not having happened. That day I found out I couldnt get rid of the glitch if i stayed on the computer and in the end actually walked off mid conversation to that friend and only came back to the computer much later.. that stopped that glitch from recurring.

[Guest]

I've been thinking about why tulpamancy isn't considered part of the spirituality community. Not that I asked anyone, and it might be in some small niche, but I've been in that community for several months and it's never brought up. Imagine the metaphysical things and philosophical things they have done in that community, some of which are quite reasonably (plausibly) explained by science, even if they choose to stick to their notions in a metaphysical sense.

 

On the other hand, the tulpamancy community loves their science and they want a scientific grounding. It's respectable, and through humanities and psychology it's quite well grounded in my opinion--I never thought adding neruoscience and brain structures were necessary, to me it's like explaining a clock by describing one of its gears.

 

You could even say the spirituality community has a distaste of science, scientists are the minority there, while mystics (for lack of a better term) are the minority here.

 

I consider myself open to both, as much as I believe science can eventually describe mysticism, I believe mysticism can be eventually used to describe science. To me they're two sides of the same coin and that's a particularly apt metaphor considering the head and tails will never see eye to eye, they're back to back looking in two entirely different directions to explain what is essentially the same thing: the nature of human consciousness.

 

So tulpamancy could easily fit in, a sort of 'design your own higher self, or spirit guide'.

 

Whatever spirit guides are, I contend tulpas have that same capacity. My tulpas obviously think on a higher level than I do. I may have inadvertently conjured or called spirit guides to me, to take their form in my characters, or perhaps spirit guides are glorified tulpas. You see, it's the same coin, two opposing sides that are mutually repugnant; regardless of what side you stand on, the other side is rediculous by comparison--I see both. Maybe I am the rediculous one, but it's so very clear to me having seen the way spirit guides are portrayed and interacted with.

 

The point is, this process of connection to another being, whether you think you made this being or this being came to you and filled a shell you crafted, doesn't matter. What matters is their value to your quality of life, and their contribution to the understanding of what you are. Switching to watcher position and leaving the front unoccupied is the holy grail of ego-death, moreso, switching everyone out and all going dormant would be in effect how they describe the nothing you obtain by complete dissolution, no thought, no existence. I really don't see why you would do that, but you can, and some of them seem to want this. It would result in sleeping as far as I can tell, and they have said as much.

 

So we have these valuable tools to spark enlightenment (which is just realizing that you aren't your body in some respects). We understand through switching and outrospection how to change ourselves, retrain our minds for removing phobias and triggers, and force the body to speak and act in a different way so that habbits can be overwritten. This is revolutionary and powerful. I've heard of a lot if things in my life, this is so outrageous that it's rediculous on it's face and unbelievable, yet here it's possible and has been done.

 

The spirituality community might appropriate the words (like tulpa)  and change their meanings if we did lend them this knowledge, but through this partnership, who knows what more could be achieved.

 

Imagine if tulpamancy could be a bridge that flips that coin into fourth dimensional space, and the two could see eachother for what they are. The two perspectives are blinded from each other and ground in different ways, but they aren't so very different.

 

Let me just note, spirit guides and higher selves are a pretty small part of the discussion there, and many of them marginalize it, but it is well accepted.

 

Inasmuch as the spiritualist might not want to permanently share their head, and the tulpamancer might not want to smudge their home or create sigils, there is still hope for unity here. The disciplines seem very incompatible, one calls the other hocus-pocus in a very symmetrical way, but if you travel both worlds with an open mind and heart, you may just be surprised what the mind can actually be capable of.

 

Perhaps there is even room for other facets, it may be a that religion is yet another side of the same coin, (god the egregore) and I'll stand first in line to cast stones at them, with my stance on their dogmatic, ritualistic ways, and the hubris of their grand architecture and power over the weak, yet I'm not completely shut off from the crystal heart of that community. It's silly how one would see the other as abhorrent or ignorant, brainwashed or evil, but I contend, there is only one coin, and we're all just sides, seeking our own ground.

 

Just some thoughts, that's all.

[Luminesce]

I've been thinking about why tulpamancy isn't considered part of the spirituality community.

 

Because the majority of tulpamancers don't believe it's particularly spiritual, and a lot of us like myself actually don't want people to think it's (inherently) spiritual/meta, because it's not. It can be though, so I'm not sure why you don't see similar phenomena in meta-minded communities, but at least on our end that's why.

[Guest]

 

Because the majority of tulpamancers don't believe it's particularly spiritual, and a lot of us like myself actually don't want people to think it's (inherently) spiritual/meta, because it's not. It can be though, so I'm not sure why you don't see similar phenomena in meta-minded communities, but at least on our end that's why.

 

Lumi, he did say we see similar phenomena. Your post fits the model well.

[Jamie]

Minds are easily capable of plurality, but it is confusing to many how to form relationships within yourself.

Or maybe not. 

 

Where does DID fit in your model? I used to wonder if Gavin was a guardian angel, but he was too bratty. My trauma holders do not make me think of meta things, or at least not good meta things, and if something makes me think of bad meta things... I am strongly incentivzed to say it is not meta at all.

 

That Christian author at netburst.net, whose articles we hold so dear, believes in demons. Alters are not demons, even persuctors are not demons: although your persuctor alter might be infested with demons. They seem like characterizations of a person's resolve to hold onto a harmful behavoir. What are demons even? Grr. How involved are they in daily life? -J

[tania]

I've been thinking about why tulpamancy isn't considered part of the spirituality community. Not that I asked anyone, and it might be in some small niche, but I've been in that community for several months and it's never brought up. Imagine the metaphysical things and philosophical things they have done in that community, some of which are quite reasonably (plausibly) explained by science, even if they choose to stick to their notions in a metaphysical sense.

 

 

You are right that one does not tend to see tulpamancy at all in the spirituality communities (I've spent many years in those communities in the past). I think you'd get a lot of blank looks there if you brought up this topic. I think too the tulpamancy would grate on the beliefs there some too. eg spirituality community can often believe in spirit guides so a spontanous tulpa situation would be thought to be a spirit guide or one's higher self or something like that and if one started talking about GOD being just an egregore, a being formed by "human" group consciousness.. well that I think would be bound to cause some offense there, so I can understand why the tulpamancy stuff is yet to really enter those communities. So anyway I think we dont see tulpamancy there due to belief clashes....

 

I personally would not bring up tulpas in the spirituality forums as I think it's a bit irrelvent to spirituality though of cause one could use a tulpa to help work on ones spirituality but one doesnt need a tulpa to analyse oneself and ones behaviours and on what is right and wrong etc  (I was strongly into the Spirituality communities when I made my first tulpa Violet but I never brought her up there even through Id made her as an angel tulpa).

[Luminesce]

Lumi, he did say we see similar phenomena.

 

Hmm, I don't see it. I meant similar phenomena as in things like soulbonding etc. that can be considered "headmates/thoughtforms" still. As basically an atheist, I still think it's offensive to compare spirit guides to tulpas as "similar phenomena" - you're basically saying spirit guides are completely made up/created, like a tulpa. The whole point of a spirit guide is that they're a spirit who guides you - externally. A higher self is similarly not okay to call tulpa-like, lol. If that's not what you meant and he mentioned actual thoughtforms somewhere - oops, guess I skimmed poorly. But if not - thoughtforms are entities formed of thought, and weird as they may be they're distinctly not external beings, else they wouldn't have been created-by-thought on your part.

 

All that said, I have zero idea what goes on in other communities, let alone metaphysical ones, so I couldn't say if they have tulpa-like things at all. Mostly just wanted to note that a lot of tulpamancers specifically don't want tulpamancy associated with metaphysics.

[Guest]

It's not offensive if you consider tulpas as a metaphysical phenomenon. I see how it would be offensive to say that spirit guides are a purely psychological phenomenon, though you could say that here as a point of thought, not as a point of argument.

 

If someone was actually offended by a hypothetical thought, that's a little sensitive. Admittedly Bear might have been that sensitive in the past. I have to think that would be akin to being offended by someone who just opened dialog on a topic, even in a friendly manner.

 

Would this current topic itself be offensive?

[Luminesce]

I don't mean the PC culture version of offensive, just that it would be pretty rude to state outright that spirit guides aren't real (as in the way proposed by the average beliefs about them). Though flipping that around by saying it was comparing metaphysical tulpas to them is fair but very tricky if that was the intent - it's not what I thought at all. Although that's mostly because even metaphysical views on tulpas don't always say they're external beings, maybe just sharing the host's soul or split off from it etc., but I guess that doesn't really change your proposed intent