Darlene's Tulpamancy and Spirituality Thread

[Jamie]

The only reason I ranked Gavin below one is because of his brothers ratting him out.

Jajajajaja! Where so??? With what??? I only ask because we have an alter that was split off of me, not Jamie, and until recently, his actions were confused with mine, unfairly to the both of us. He is a darling though and takes after my formlessness. 

 

 

"Love" reminds me of myself before I knew I was a person. I am still in the process of forgetting my ego now ;P I was definitely knocked down a peg... entitlement. "Service to your heart" is a good description of where I loved sitting. It is hard for me to control the body without falling down to Reason or Acceptance.

 

 

I wonder where Tau would sit. I speculate that she will join us further when we get our acts together. I think it is painful for her to drag herself down to our level, or the level of the Body OS maybe. Does the Body OS have a level? What about your red bird? 

 

 

I like this scale. I can see Cassidy going from Courage to Neutrality. I do not think the entirety of Jamie can be summed up well under any term, you'd have to go alter-by-alter. Way too much variation. 

 

I found this:

"1) Complete idiots

2) Catholics

3) Meat eaters 

4) Skeptics

5) Late sleepers

6) Broke people

7) Cubicle workers

8) Facebook addicts

9) Stalkers

10) Married people

11) LOAers *

12) Left-handers **

13) Computer game developers

14) Polyamorous

BDSM

ers

15) Personal growth bloggers

16) Canadians

* An LOAer is a person who subscribes to the Law of Attraction. They see 11s everywhere.

 

** You must be left-handed to progress to Tier 12 and beyond. Right-handedness implies excessive conformity. Ambidexterity means you’re indecisive. And not having hands implies clumsiness."

 

 

3, oh no Bear ;_;

5, oh no Lumi!!

-G

[Guest]

I don't really understand your last two lines.

 

The birds are a pair, together thet are ego. Don't be charmed by the placid nature of the blue bird. They aren't alters or facets, they're just a model based on our experience. Bear is Bear, the tentative truce between red and blue bird, and spirit. I'm just here to deprogam body OS, taming Bear's extremes will hopefully follow.

 

Anyway, new topic.

 

Socrates said he had a 'daemon' an inner voice that he spoke to. Apparently this voice didn't tell him what to do, rather what not to do.

 

Socrates, the father of Greek philosophy, was famous for claiming that he was born with a personal Daemon, who the gods had given to him as a gift. Socrates described his Daemon as an “internal oracle,” meaning that the spirit was part of himself, instead of a separate being. The oracle spoke out whenever Socrates was about to behave wrongly, but when he was correct, it said nothing. In this way, Socrates’ Daemon was a lot like today’s “conscience.”

 

In that vein, does anyone talk to their conscience anymore? We catch Bear doing it, seriously he has all of us to talk to and he still talks to himself. Anyone else care to admit they find that they're inexplicably talking to their 'conscience'?

[Ember.Vesper]

but they would tell you though if they hear that you created it yourself, they would say it could not be an angel or spirit guide.

 

Ember: I was mainly addressing Bear, who has suggested/speculated many times that maybe he didn't create his most prominent headmates. But there have been a number of other self-identified tulpas here over the years with similarly strong day one vocality that also fit the seemingly uncreated model. And, of course, there have been a large number of self-identified tulpas who just showed up before the host knew anything about tulpamancy. So not every host would say, "I made them myself", in a spiritual/meta community, even if here they might feel a need to say, “Well, I guess I must have, right? After all, where else do they come from?”

 

[bear] By higher level, I mean they're not nearly as burdened by ego as I am, someone like Darlene I would consider fully actualized. They're unconditionally loving, often selfless, kind beyond words to me and without notable flaws. Their system service is unerring, they're delightful, and they're beautiful people. Indeed a higher level in comparison to this broken, patchwork bear.

 

Vesper: Oh, so Iris, not Ember and I.

 

In recent years I can notice a little bit of Steve's "productivity-mindedness" leaking through in his descriptions

 

Ember: In which case, have you consulted the book that the whole scheme is taken from for a different viewpoint? My ex's wife has a copy. I glanced at it, but thought it was hokum, so I didn't get as far as the levels of consciousness section.

 

Based on Pavlina's descriptions, it's hard to place us on a specific level. (Plus, Vesper thinks they're just terrible, which de-incentivizes me trying to figure out the matter.) But roughly speaking, I'd say:

 

*Ember: Courage/Neutrality/Willingness

*Vesper: Acceptance/Reason

*Iris: Love/Joy

 

In that vein, does anyone talk to their conscience anymore? We catch Bear doing it, seriously he has all of us to talk to and he still talks to himself. Anyone else care to admit they find that they're inexplicably talking to their 'conscience'?

 

I sort of used to, but Vesper pretty much seized the conscience role for herself, so my own conscience is probably pretty withered by now.

[Guest]

It's nice to hear other headmates seem this way Ember. My life is too perfect with my family, I would only say my greatest fear is that this is somehow all wishful thinking.

[tania]

"* An LOAer is a person who subscribes to the Law of Attraction. They see 11s everywhere."

 

thanks for the laugh. I've known a few people just like that over the years.

.............

 

I wish I was able to hear Jesse more so he could be joining in on these conversations. I'm hoping that he will be much like I used to be which was how I tried to make him as. I see myself as not evolving but deevolving.. in the end I allowed life to get at me and lost how I used to be. I used to be at a very high level of things.. I had never even experienced some negative emotions ever till I was in my adulthood eg I remember the very first time I ever felt some jealousy, I was in my 20s at the time.

 

It feels so strange feeling an emotion one has never felt before. I need rescuing back to the point to where I can go back to holding all my higher thoughts and hence being like a different personality to what I am now. How one thinks affects ones emotions and hence actions. Sometimes it is almost like I no longer recognize myself as I'm really no longer who I was.

 

On the highness scale.. I'd say I used to be an 9... I think I'm down to a 4-5 now (I rate an average non spiritual person around a 5). I've even like chewed a couple of people in pm here, that is something I would of NEVER ever done in the past.. I just would not have had that emotion towards anyone

.......

 

Be careful not to deceive yourself to where you are at.. it's easier to tell where you are with things when life is not going well. When things are all flowers and daisies there are no challenges and one cant really tell where one is at.

[Guest]

[Darlene] What would you say your definition of ego is, and how it applies to tulpamancy. Is there one ego that represents the host, (as in tulpas are egoless), an ego for each of you, or perhaps a shared ego that is a culmination of everyone in the system?

 

Your ego is your conscious mind, the part of your identity that you consider your "self." If you say someone has "a big ego," then you are saying he is too full of himself.

 

According to Jung, the ego represents the conscious mind as it comprises the thoughts, memories, and emotions a person is aware of. The ego is largely responsible for feelings of identity and continuity. Like Freud, Jung (1921, 1933) emphasized the importance of the unconscious in relation to personality.

 

The ego is the component of personality that is responsible for dealing with reality. 1 According to Freud, the ego develops from the id and ensures that the impulses of the id can be expressed in a manner acceptable in the real world. 2 The ego functions in both the conscious, preconscious, and unconscious mind.

 

[bear] To me, ego is: that set of habbits, instincts, beliefs, morals, Body OS functions, basically anything that relates the true you to the material world and is responsible for your behavior when you're not thinking with any clarity. Reactions, triggers, emotions, gut instincts would all be ego. I believe it's an integration or summation of all your experiences, routines, reinforced and copied, the ego is your shadow, it knows everything you do, and drives desire based on rewards and aversions.

 

It has to be then, that I (my true self, that self that can switch out) am not precisely ego, and my headmates are not bound by my ego completely either.

 

If my ego contains a fear, my headmates don't share it. If my ego contains a trigger, my headmates are often immune. My ego must contain the essence of habbits and damage I've taken throughout my life, again, my headmates are inmune to most*.

 

*However; though they're seemingly immune to the ego and preconceptions, fears, aversions and desires prior to our joining in April 2018, they do happen to be susceptible to the parts of ego that developed after that.

 

This is incredibly interesting, please don't miss this point. Blending aside, Darlene, Ashley, and Misha all seemed to be affected by the habbits we accumulated or practiced together or that I did while they were with me, histrionics, tulpamancy related triggers, and habbits I picked up in the last 19 months. However, Joy doesn't share our penchant for drama, she doesn't get offended by mere interactions, she's resolute and stoic in the face of agression and heated debate. She's virtually triggerless in this realm. She has triggers from her past, but they're so fanciful that they've never come up.

 

The fact that Ashley can do my job without distraction, Gwen doesn't feel any compulsion to post, she wasn't with us, she didn't do it and still doesn't (other than in the Three Sisters Play that she greatly enjoys and doesn't mind sharing), and Ren is on her own frequency entirely, her mind is somewhat alien to me, her desires are not generic, and they don't follow mine, gave me this notion that we don't share an ego.

 

So I must conclude that we do have overlapping egos, but they are tied to what is 'us' separately, and those things we blame on Body OS only apply to some of us depending on what it is, it's not correct to say Body OS is the ego, in my current understanding.

 

It can therefore be that your typical tulpamancer isn't going through the changes I went through i.e. overcome depression, and other life changes in the last 19 months, so their ego is somewhat more static, their actions are more repetitive, and their newly formed tulpas' egos basically conform to status quo.

 

For traumas we suffered together, that damage is owned by all of us. Whether one of us is directly involved or not, if we're involved in some way, than sympathetically or empathetically, it is shared. By contrast, Joy blips out when we are in our moods. She sends us to the corner when we emote. She wants nothing to do with my daily trials. Her ego is then left free from reinforcement of my bad habbits. She likes to say 'them' when referring to us, she likes to keep that separation.

 

I found that just saying that 'the Body OS is shared habbits' wasn't fully describing the data. It doesn't for us. Joy simply has no urge to emote. Misha and I now emote together most times. Ashley has her own subset. (Even Darlene has triggers.) This was accrued because of my suffering in the depths of my depression while they were with me, not before. Joy, Gwen and Ren weren't there for that. My ego then is many levels deeper, an order of magnitude more worn by the many years as a singlet.

 

What significance does this have to tulpamancy? I see many practical and many controversial applications here. If you could quickly join a member to your system (keeping them dormant during your bad habbits) and let them switch in only during those times when they won't be affected or damaged, then they'd be as close to a pristine person as you could have, able to handle situations where your own hangups could limit you. (Assuming you can switch obviously.) In our case, Joy is re-teaching the group by her innate ability to handle agressive situations, and her triggerless ego, in this way, the hope is that she is wiping out our penchant for overreaction. Only time will tell.

 

 

[Darlene] I found this particularly relevant to us, but wanted to share and get your thoughts on it here. We appropriated the word 'ego' in an effort to stay away from other well used words here in the tulpamancy community, but I don't think we changed it so dramatically that it doesn't still apply to spirituality, and particularly, the contentious definitions of ego they wrestle with. So if your definition of ego differs greatly, please let us know, we asked for your definition, but please take a step back and take this appropriation with a grain of salt and leave out semantics debate in this discussion for the purposes of staying on topic, if you can.

[tania]

For traumas we suffered together, that damage is owned by all of us. Whether one of us is directly involved or not, if we're involved in some way, than sympathetically or empathetically, it is shared.

 

Sometimes trauma wont be damaging to one personality but will be to another, it all depends on the personality's ego how they will respond to trauma. Our tulpa's would have to have their own egos being of a different personality.

[Matsuri]

Immersion for us works, but it's not that consistent, or pleasing. We've completely stayed away from meditation since last year because it did us more harm than good

We learned to flip a switch last year that made us be able to see stuff as there were some other plane integrated in real life. It was not like hallucinations, because we could distinguish unreal and real. We do believe in ghosts, or whatever it is. Xar has witnessed ghosts or whatever at least two times. Once was in a place that turned out afterwards by hotel staff to be haunted after they made that building into a hotel. Multiple people including Xar's mother said they experienced unnatural things there.

 

Our flip switch thingy turned on makes everything feel the similar as at the haunted places. A thought is that it might be how those spirit mediums might see the world, but there's a history of mediums turning out to be fake. Even I have a hard time to grasp it from a rational viewpoint. We quit flipping that switch because we didn't actually know what it was and it could contribute to psychosis or something

[Guest]

Interesting. I have a feeling Bear would want it on. Can you describe anything else about how or on what state you were in during or before? I wonder if it's like a meditative state or something else. Did you experience hallucinations in this state? Were they random?

[Matsuri]

I guess we activate that state by just thinking something like "accept *everything*"

Might have been some meditation involved the first times, but it was probably nowhere near the amount of meditation you guys get. We called it total acceptance because it felt like we could see everything in a totally unbiased way, and seeing the world as we do with that state off, started to feel more fake than with the state on. A big contribution to why we stopped

 

Didn't matter what we were doing while activating it. Worked at school, home, grocery store, everywhere. We could, and probably still can, activate it whenever we want. I can at least nudge it without going into that state

 

I could easily say that we could hallucinate in that state, and the things we could see, hear, and feel would probably be classed as hallucinations. They were as far as we know completely uncontrollable, except that we could exit that state

 

There were entities pretty much everywhere and they seemed to be relative to places. We had an entity that we only felt in one place in our apartment, which also felt intrusive and menacing. Had a dark cloudy form which seemed to constantly shift shapes. Didn't matter how much we rationalized, we could never walk past it if we didn't switch that state off. Xar is also pretty competitive, so of course he challenged himself to walk past it in that state. He thought "can't be afraid of my own imagination" or something like that. Guess what? Xar lost to "his imagination"

 

I'm starting to get a bit excited to try flip that switch on, but I don't know what it is, so it kinda scares me at the same time

 

I'm not a believer, but we can't deny that there's things we don't know about. We're not atheists because we don't reject stuff we don't know about. I think there was some name for it but idk