PSA: Don't Call People Roleplayers

[Sands]

I said if you stick with it long enough, it *may* become one. You roleplay and with time the responses come easier and easier, until they happen fully automatically and you have to put in a definite effort to make them not come. Eventually they can get so you can't repress the thoughts from the character, deviation, own thoughts, etc. That sounds like a tulpa to me.

 

We're talking about the part where they /nick into the tupper's name and call it a tupper. Which, like you said, is not a tupper. But they call it such and others are going to take a look at that and say "oh, tuppers are just one dude roleplaying to be someone else". Because that is what is being called a tupper in those channels.

 

Or instead of griping about this, we could better waste spend our time coming up with ways to help people insulate themselves from these doubts, because this is hardly the only source of them. Really, if it's not one thing it'll be another, and we can't stick newbie 'mancers in a bubble and protect them from everything potentially harmful until their tulpas are strong enough.

 

You're telling me we shouldn't stick newbies in a protective bubble? Hello? What happened to the .info and #.info mentality of "you can't say your opinions if they hurt someone else's feelings"? You know, if someone claims something stupid, you can't call them out on it? That's what happens on #.info at least, it's in the rules even. This is some pretty big hypocrisy here. You guys are, in fact, trying to protect new tuppermancers, but in the exactly wrong way. It isn't a protective bubble you need, it's toughness you only develop by going through the problems, facing them without getting patted on the bum every five seconds by others. The more you protect people and scream "THIS OTHER PERSON IS TOTALLY NOT ROLEPLAYING, NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS", the less people are going to believe in tuppers. A clear case of roleplaying is not allowed to be called roleplaying, so the ones outside the community will think it's just roleplaying and the ones in the community will doubt if their tuppers are any better. It's dangerous. You're not teaching people to use their own brains to think about this, you're forcefeeding them someone else's ideas and beliefs. They can't have their opinions, they can't talk about their opinions, the ones who need to hear the other side of the debate aren't allowed to hear it.

 

Roleplaying is not the only thing causing doubts. But it is a huge fucking one that is easily avoided. Roleplaying is an issue that's just being danced around. .info seems to be refusing to take any part of acknowleding it exists. I see no "yes, some people are roleplaying, you don't have to believe everyone and use your own fucking brain. If it sounds stupid, you don't have to believe in it. Because someone else pretends doesn't mean you are" anywhere on the site. Instead people chant "believe no matter what" like a cult. For science, am I right?

 

You're too soft, Chupi. You don't see the problems that chew our community from the outside and the inside. Or maybe you refuse to see it. You try explaining it away, telling us to ignore the problems like that will make them go away. Sure, some problems go away like that. But right now, at the way our community is growing, this problem will never, ever go away. And most likely in the future, roleplaying is exactly what a tupper is. For more and more people, that's what they already are, even for tuppermancers. A parroted puppet for your own amusement you can cyber with on the IRC. I don't think you're fit for your position - and knowing how you were far from being the number one pick for the next admin, it seems like I'm not the only one thinking that. You were the only one there was and that's why you have your position. You are very bad at it, though, and I think someone else should be chosen. But what am I talking about, everything will be fixed by the redesign that will never happen, even though these problems need to be dealt with now.

[Chupi]

I won't respond to the diatribe about moderation here since that isn't what this thread is about. What I meant by "we can't put newbies in a bubble" is that it's an impossibility; I was not making a value judgement. Is the place where the roleplaying happened a channel where either you or the .info mod team have any power? If no, then there is squat we can do about this. If yes, my point still stands because people can and will discuss things in places other than the ones we designate.

 

Therefore, unless we can get people to stop discussing anything tulpa related outside of places we can control, protecting people by stopping that RPing is pointless as they would just go elsewhere. We can provide a safe place for people to talk without so much of the harmful influences (which is what we are trying to do). We can encourage people to avoid potential sources of doubt, but that's about as much as we can reasonably do. Still, as much as you try to avoid it, it will still happen -- and having better ways to deal with it when it does is the only solution to that. Ultimately one should build up a system of thinking and a certainty that makes this sort of doubt and detractors have no effect.

[Viceroy]

Ba ha ha I love reading your posts Sands

[Slushie]

Sands, of course there are roleplayers in the community. That's unavoidable. And of course there is the occasional case of a very obvious roleplayer. But everything else is total grey area. For that reason the mods can't really do anything against possible roleplayers because we just don't know. I don't know where you're getting this idea that we tell you to "believe everyone" though. Of course you don't have to believe anyone you don't want to. There is a whole list of people I don't believe, personally. What we can't have is people going around calling each other bullshit, because that doesn't exactly lead to a healthy atmosphere.

 

You're always vocal about this issue, but as of yet I haven't seen you suggest a single actual practical solution to it that you think should be put in motion.

[Viceroy]

That would be very boring to read, you see.

[Sands]

I won't respond to the diatribe about moderation here since that isn't what this thread is about. What I meant by "we can't put newbies in a bubble" is that it's an impossibility; I was not making a value judgement. Is the place where the roleplaying happened a channel where either you or the .info mod team have any power? If no, then there is squat we can do about this. If yes, my point still stands because people can and will discuss things in places other than the ones we designate.

 

Therefore, unless we can get people to stop discussing anything tulpa related outside of places we can control, protecting people by stopping that RPing is pointless as they would just go elsewhere. We can provide a safe place for people to talk without so much of the harmful influences (which is what we are trying to do). We can encourage people to avoid potential sources of doubt, but that's about as much as we can reasonably do. Still, as much as you try to avoid it, it will still happen -- and having better ways to deal with it when it does is the only solution to that. Ultimately one should build up a system of thinking and a certainty that makes this sort of doubt and detractors have no effect.

 

The most ridiculous roleplaying comes from .info members in an off-shoot of a what I assume is a .info channel seeing how it's advertised on the front page. But that isn't to say that #.info and the off-topic channel aren't just as bad when it comes to ridiculous claims and obvious roleplaying, because there's a lot of that there, too. The funniest ones just come from the other channels, though I'm sure they visit #.info too. I don't know too well, I don't stalk them quite that much yet.

 

It's funny how you talk about the bubble and how there's no use in creating one when you are creating one. Again, the whole you can't make anyone cry bullshit. Trying to protect someone's precious feelings because they can't handle it on their own. You're not teaching them to grow a thicker skin which will not only help them in life itself as well as tupperforcing, you're teaching them that crying to mommy solves everything.

 

You think a mod could do something about roleplaying. Like what would you do, even if you had proof? Ban them? Good job. I don't think you understand much about modding. Telling people to avoid the roleplaying places isn't that good of an idea either, as it's better to, you know, see all the shit yourself so you can get used to it and learn how to handle it. I do think there's one thing that mods can do to help so we can avoid tupperdeaths because of bullshit, but it's more about teaching the people and less about getting a mod involved in there and banning everyone. I'm hoping that if the problems are brought to everyone's attention, they will know how to handle them instead of having to face a reality where they think they're the only one seeing something wrong with the community because no one else says anything about it. But let's go to the Slushie quote now.

 

Sands, of course there are roleplayers in the community. That's unavoidable. And of course there is the occasional case of a very obvious roleplayer. But everything else is total grey area. For that reason the mods can't really do anything against possible roleplayers because we just don't know. I don't know where you're getting this idea that we tell you to "believe everyone" though. Of course you don't have to believe anyone you don't want to. There is a whole list of people I don't believe, personally. What we can't have is people going around calling each other bullshit, because that doesn't exactly lead to a healthy atmosphere.

 

You're always vocal about this issue, but as of yet I haven't seen you suggest a single actual practical solution to it that you think should be put in motion.

 

I see the rules of #.info were actually changed from believe fucking everyone to being allowed to do it if you have a strong reason. Except then instead of a strong reason it ends up being "only if you have proof" or something. If these are the rules. Yeah, sure. It's impossible to have proof in many cases, especially if the troll is good. You won't have your proof unless they finally say that goddammit how gullible are you people, I wasn't being serious. I guess if proof is required for that, then proof should be required for having a tupper, too? Like you're not allowed to say you have one unless you have proof. Good luck getting that proof.

 

But hey, if a contradicting story is all you need...

 

I have switched before with tulpaes before han, yes, however we did switch the first day she was made.

 

its the first time i switched but ive done similar things more or less

the body wouldn't do anything

wait what

DarkAnima, it's not the first tulpa I think? but better ask him

now it's the first time?

his story is falling apart

 

A healthy atmosphere isn't one where you can't say your opinions or have a debate about something without someone starting to cry about how mean that is. You've made a hugbox that's all kisses and rainbows. That'll only make the newcomers become hugboxers themselves. Remember our slogan "for science!"? I didn't know that meant you can't express your disbelief at something someone else claims happened.

 

What do I think should be done? Well, there's nothing that anyone, mod or member, can do to magically fix everything. But what a mod could do is another... Public service announcement or whatever this is supposed to be about known issues, to show that they are very real and there and actual problems. Not to dance around the subject and pretend it goes away if you ignore it. Here we got the "don't call ppl roleplayers omg" after someone got butthurt on tumblr, why can't we have one about what to expect in a tupper community? Not everyone is a part of .info, but it might help the members get through some of the things they find problematic. Like, I dunno, some pointers like "Not everyone will believe you automatically, don't worry about it or find the reason why they say that", "You are the only one who can know for sure if you have a tupper, it's not someone else's fault for not believing you", "There are roleplayers in this community, you don't have to blindly believe in everyone if you don't think it feels right", "Doubt is not some special entity that eats tuppers for breakfast that should be avoided at all costs, it's normal for humans to doubt, figure out what you used to believe in if you have doubts now" and I guess allowing people to voice their concerns even if they don't have proof, if it helps them put their mind at ease. Something like that, I'm sure there's a lot more someone could add to that, but it would be helpful if the problem was acknowledged by the community's leaders in a public manner.

 

A community is supposed to talk and again, you know, for science and all that jazz. We can't do research, we don't have any equipment, we can't have proof. But we could at least present ourselves as something professional and skeptical, as might be expected from a scientific community. A hugbox where you can't voice your concern without undeniable proof is not that. All everyone has about anything here are theories of tuppers and stuff. Why can't we have theories about roleplayers? "Because it's harmful" you might say, but aren't some theories possibly harmful to some? Like if they say tuppers don't exist? Is that any more or less harmful?

[Guest mule]

Is the place where the roleplaying happened a channel where either you or the .info mod team have any power?

It certainly happens in #.info and #_ot, not a whole lot of point in denying it.

[Flexionsensor]

You're always vocal about this issue, but as of yet I haven't seen you suggest a single actual practical solution to it that you think should be put in motion.

 

Perhaps a PSA for not roleplaying at all? Or getting Pleeb to add onto the board rules perhaps? You could get the mods to crack down on it...

[Kiahdaj]

 

Perhaps a PSA for not roleplaying at all? Or getting Pleeb to add onto the board rules perhaps? You could get the mods to crack down on it...

 

That doesn't work because there is no way to know for sure if someone is roleplaying, and it's not a moderator's place to make that kind of judgment.

[Slushie]

You could get the mods to crack down on it...

 

of course there is the occasional case of a very obvious roleplayer. But everything else is total grey area. For that reason the mods can't really do anything against possible roleplayers because we just don't know.