"Safe Place" - Wonderland Guide

[Shui]

Thanks for the articles. If you find the other one, please let me know. I'm always interested in more.

 

Seems like everyone who writes about wonderlands has a different name for them: tikis, dream havens, safe places, memory houses, paracosms, and so on. To be fair, there are distinctions between all of these, but deep down they're very similar as well.

 

I know the term dream havens from Psychic Dreamwalking, by Michelle Belanger. The chapter on making a dream haven was interesting, and I'd like to include excerpts from that in my PR, but I won't be able to get to my copy until November at the earliest.

 

As for safe place, I hadn't heard that term before, but this article calls it a refuge, which is pretty similar.

 

And I've studied shamanism too. Actually, I believe I did a journey with the same Sandra Ingerman mentioned in your first article, back in 2008. I didn't know who she was at the time. My regular teacher was a guy we just called Tom.

 

Though I'm a bit conflicted about my learning it from them, and my using elements of it myself. I mean I'm a skeptic and an atheist (though everyone here seems to think I'm pretty meta), but I can see the value of shamanic techniques, particularly in writing and making tulpa, both of which are important to me. But even though there are useful techniques here, it feels like cultural appropriation, which bothers me. Does that make sense?

 

Hi guys! Heya folks, a good guide for "safe places" and wonderlands in addition to Psychological underworlds would be "Magical Use of Thought Forms" by Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki and J. H. Brennan.

 

This book might be too meta for the average person on this site, but its information was practical and invaluable for the stuff you are talking about Dancing-With-Dragons.

 

For the rest who have views and beliefs other than mine, this book would still be useful because it is entertaining and as well and informative about the roots of the practice of creating tulpas and other thought forms. It also gives one interesting perspectives and possibilities on creating wonderlands or "memory palaces" and how to use them to explore the subconscious "underworld" as a psychological technique.

 

I second that. I don't believe a lot of what is written in it, and I don't understand why certain chapters were included, but it's a very interesting book, and it does go over tulpa and wonderlands. One chapter, which is linked to from my PR, describes the entire Tibetan process of making a tulpa in detail.

 

But I digress - this doesn't belong in the Guides section. Please either make it more expansive and explain better what a 'safe place' really is or delete it.

 

Well, it is a guide, but I can see where you're coming from. The closest thing I've written to a guide is in the Art forum. This might be more appropriate in Metaphysical.

[Yori]

It's not much of a guide because all it tells you to do is to visualize your wonderland and keep doing it until it solidifies. That's just basically saying the definition of what a completed wonderland is.

 

And zero, by solidify they meant the usual - the wonderland will be more detailed and easier to see and visualize.

 

"Creating a safe place normally have nothing to do with Tulpas;" Zero, the key word is normally. S/he seemed to be suggesting that people create an actual esoteric place for the tulpa and host to hang out.

 

What I didn't expect was for them to give vague directions for a normal wonderland and skip the energy/esoteric part completely. Places in "higher realms" are created when you project (your soul) out of your body and go off to create one... that was totally left out. I also didn't expect them to claim that giving out descriptions of your wonderland was a no-no, considering that they claim to recognize a difference between wonderlands and "safe places." Wonderlands are in your mind.

 

And as for people causing ruckus in other people's wonderlands for "no reason", I don't see how it's any more ridiculous than claims that spirits cause ruckus in people's houses for reasons other than territorial stuff - invading. Because they want to fuck with people for fun, or cause some harm to them. Not much different from the human world except B&E takes more planning.. usually the fucking with manifests itself in normal physical pranks and causing harm manifests itself in bullying or trying to beat people up.

---

"So, lets say I told my friend a description of my 'safe place', how in the world would my friend be able to access it? How could other people enter something in my head?"

 

 

 

When I came to this forum, I thought the word wonderland was quite silly. I had never heard it before. I was more familiar with "Safe Place", or "Dream Haven".

 

So it looks like you went into some detail and mentioned the astral plane and just how you say people would enter it.

 

Everything you visualize doesn't necessarily start existing on all other planes. That's assumptive, like claims that dreams aren't actually dreams and are you in some other plane. I hear more intrusions onto places specifically made in other realms rather than intrusions into something someone is visualizing in their head.

[dancing-with-dragons]

Then why post it in the tulpa guides section?

You are taking my words out of context. Next time, please post the rest of the phrase. "Creating a safe place normally have nothing to do with Tulpas; however I noticed the similarity between "safe place" and "wonderland", and thought it would be beneficial to expound more on the subject."

 

"Other people can easily access it" is followed by "(if they know what they're doing)". This is contradictive. If something were easy, you wouldn't have to know what you're doing to be able to do it. If you need skill/experience, it's not easy. This sounds like a esoteric version of the wonderland with additional fear added to the story for extra security (just like parents tell their kids to eat their vegetables so santa gives them presents for christmas.) You tell people "make something in a place nobody can access, and don't tell anybody about it so you're 100% sure nobody can access it" a.k.a. "make an imaginary sekrit club for you and your tulpas" a.k.a. "make a wonderland". Only difference between this and a wonderland is that you're not allowed to describe it because muh demon invasions.

That's not true. If you described your safe place to an average person who doesn't meditate, or spirit travel, then they cannot enter it. BUT if you described it to someone who knew what they were doing (could spirit travel), then it would be very EASY for them to enter it.

 

You give no examples of any purposes it has besides the obvious benefits of the wonderland + demon protection.

Yes, I did. ( Access of the underworld, and to higher realms. )

 

Same. The "a safe place does x" claims are repetitive and vague. If you're going to claim something, make sure you can explain it.

Explaining those things would have gone off topic, which, by the way, you already accused me of.

 

A safe place solidifies the more you use it.

I'm surprised you aren't familiar with this. Then again, most of the folks here made the mistake of dividing "Tulpas" from spirituality.

It's a basic principal. Where thought goes, energy follows. The more you visualize your safe place, the more solid it will become. That means you can visualize it without as much effort as before, and changes within it will not occur as much as they may when first beginning.

 

Shui, Thanks for taking the time to post those replies! :)

I just got home from work, so ill do some searching for those articles.

[Zero]

You are taking my words out of context. Next time, please post the rest of the phrase. "Creating a safe place normally have nothing to do with Tulpas; however I noticed the similarity between "safe place" and "wonderland", and thought it would be beneficial to expound more on the subject."

Except you didn't expand on anything. You didn't give anything of value that belongs in this subforum. This thread belongs in Metaphysical.

 

That's not true. If you described your safe place to an average person who doesn't meditate, or spirit travel, then they cannot enter it. BUT if you described it to someone who knew what they were doing (could spirit travel), then it would be very EASY for them to enter it.

Okay. Once again. Not for this section. Also, why would they enter it again? Because if someone actually had the ability to enter other's wonderlands, as i've said before, going there to stir up shit is something for immature teens, not for a wise spirit traveler or whatever you call it.

 

Yes, I did. ( Access of the underworld, and to higher realms. )

And yet you didn't explain what the underworld is and what you can do there and what you need to do to get there, nor did you explain any of that for the higher realms. Thus, your guide is incomplete. As of now it's just a wonderland guide with an esoteric twist. Therefore, it belongs on the esoteric subforum. But regardless, even if it was there, I'd tell you the same thing - your guide is incomplete

 

Explaining those things would have gone off topic, which, by the way, you already accused me of.

How would explaining things that are a part of your guide be off topic? Also your post was in the wrong subforum. The second you mentioned esoteric things it didn't belong here, as this subforum takes a scientific approach to things. I respect your beliefs, and I won't be posting my crap on an esoteric forum, nor asking them to go with what I believe. I expect the same of you.

 

I'm surprised you aren't familiar with this. Then again, most of the folks here made the mistake of dividing "Tulpas" from spirituality.

Okay. So, to translate, "Most of the folks here made the mistake of not believing in what I believe."

This is what you're saying. Can you realize how close-minded this is? You have nothing to back your statements besides anecdotal evidence. Neither do the other members on this forum. That means that, at all times, we must keep an open mind and take into consideration what another person is saying. The only mistake you can make on here is assuming an absolute that can't be proven yet or making generalizations, such as "your tulpa is fake" or "you're wrong, all tulpas can be imposed" or "you're wrong, tulpas are spiritual".

 

Different people will believe different things. You are not right, and neither is anybody else, as long as you don't have undeniable evidence. And until then, you must accept that there will be people who will disagree with you, and you can't say that they are "mistaken" for doing so. They're just as sure about what they're saying as you are.

 

 

Once again. This forum has plenty of subforums. Please take this thread to where it belongs.

[dancing-with-dragons]

This thread belongs in Metaphysical.

This is a guide, and belongs in the guides sub-forum.

 

your guide is incomplete

How would explaining things that are a part of your guide be off topic?

Like I said, if I explain these even more, then this topic would really belong elsewhere. It's a guide for creating a safe place. Not a guide for discovering your underworld. Nonetheless, Please see the links I included in my edit.

 

Different people will believe different things. You are not right, and neither is anybody else, as long as you don't have undeniable evidence. And until then, you must accept that there will be people who will disagree with you, and you can't say that they are "mistaken" for doing so. They're just as sure about what they're saying as you are.

People can believe whatever they want. I respect that. My own family is not of the same belief system as me. There is truth in every religion.

But this post is spiritually oriented. I apologize if I offended you, my feathers were just a little ruffled.

Originally, tulpas were a part of Shamanism. (Not native American shamanism).

---

And again, this is a GUIDE on the creation of a wonderland from a SPIRITUAL point of view. All guides, meta-physical or not, belong in the guide section.

[Kiahdaj]

Originally, tulpas were a part of Shamanism. (Not native American shamanism).

 

[citation needed]

 

 

Also, yeah, the metaphysics board was created for all non-psychological approaches, so as to not mix the shit together.

Just because it's a guide, doesn't mean it belongs with all the other "psychological" guides.

[dancing-with-dragons]

Shui. I found some good links, I edited them into the top of the original post. :)

[Zero]

Good job in ignoring Kiahdaj's post. Also Shui just because he's speaking of esoteric things doesn't mean you have to defend his mistakes.

[Yori]

Oooh.. so even metaphysical guides go in that section? I see.

 

As for not explaining things, I don't see how explaining what you are talking about would be different from people who include a rundown of what a wonderland is, or what a tulpa is, in their guides.

---

Also are you sure that it was shamanism? There's also things sourcing it to Tibetan monks.

---

The guide wasn't really written in a spiritual point of view, 1. 2, it's not a mistake to separate tulpas from spirituality. They aren't inherently spiritual.

 

Also, Zero, you seem to be implying that caricatures of wise old spirit gurus are the only people that travel and that since only not yet matured teens would want to harm someone through spirit travel or cause a ruckus in their created places, that people that travel wouldn't do this, which is very farfetched, and very randomly assumptive. I think any tulpamancer here could learn to travel, and very young to old people claim to do it. In reality people could want to travel for a variety of reasons.

 

You also seem to be making the mistake of assuming that all travel is deliberate... some people claim that it just happens on its own sometimes, or they were doing it with they were younger.

[Shui]

I didn't think I was defending dancing-with-dragons. Actually, I suggested twice that this guide be moved to metaphysics. But hey, debate sounds like fun. So here's my idea of what defense should look like:

 

I've reviewed the suggestions for creating guides, and I don't see anything saying that the guides must be about tulpa. In fact, when kerin posted this guide nobody so much as mentioned that the guide had nothing to do with tulpa, even though that guide has just as little to do with tulpa as this one, and it even uses the word "tulpa" five times less frequently.

 

The suggestions do say "If you're unsure if a method you're trying actually works, don't bother posting it. Test your methods, make sure you're not leading someone down the wrong path." I believe that the method detailed in this guide has been as rigorously tested as the methods detailed in several other guides, by which I mean that it worked for the creator.

 

As many people have said, from Linkzelda to Sands, although this forum strives to be scientific, it's not. In fact, I don't think it's even possible for us to be scientific at this point. Our population is too small, too diverse, and too unreliable for proper studies. At the moment, the forum's standard for "scientific" is very much "Hey, this is what worked for me."

 

Now I don't personally believe in this guide. But there are other guides I don't personally believe in either. For example, FAQ Man's guide says you have to visualize your tulpa naked or they'll never be able to change clothes -- I don't believe that. Irish's guide recommended reading The Law and the Promise, and I believe that was quite possibly the most useless thing I've read in a very long time. In spite of that, I believe all three of these guides are useful, and I'm glad I read them.

 

Unlike many people here, I had to teach myself how to make tulpa -- there were no guides online when I first learned about it. I read through dozens of books looking for any mention of anything similar to this idea. (I've listed many of those books in this post.) Often I'd read an entire book and believe only a few paragraphs, or maybe only a few sentences. And that's how I assembled most of my knowledge about tulpa. When I came here, I knew the methods to make a tulpa -- I joined this community mostly for the reassurance that those methods weren't a lot of hokey, and I wasn't throwing away months of my life on a pipe dream.

 

So although I don't entirely believe something, I can still find it useful. This Safe Place guide has expanded my knowledge of wonderlands. (Thank you for the link, by the way, dancing-with-dragons.) For that alone, I'm glad I read it. And I'm sure there are others in this community who will believe it entirely, and will be even more glad to find it.

 

Some people have brought up that the guide is incomplete -- well, it should be. dancing-with-dragons has been working on a tulpa for ten days, and obviously can't tell us everything about shamanic journeying works with tulpa yet. No doubt that information will be added as he becomes more experienced with it. If he added it now, he'd be making it up.

 

I don't think this guide will stand up to the GAT. I don't think it should. It will always appeal to a small group at the fringe of the community, and should not represent the community at large. In fact, because of that, and because of the description of the Metaphysics forum: "Please keep all discussions on this subject to this board and out of the rest of the forum" I still think it should be moved there.

 

But I would like to see it continue to exist, and to be expanded, and I will continue to read and comment on it.

 

And that concludes my defense of this guide.