Liar's dice (perception test)

[greedfox]

Theory: tulpa have the ability to see outside of or isolated from the host senses.

 

Experiment: using dice and a blindfold, test the ability of the tulpa to determine the value of the dice without the host senses. (I personally suggest the use of a dice with more than six sides like a d20 or two d10 representing 1-100)

 

Potential variations:

1: using a friend, have them write on paper in the next room. Have tulpa read the paper ans check results.

2: actually play liars dice with a friend, use tulpa to cheat and check results.

3: toss a dice into another room or out of sight, check results.

4: using a book and a blindfold, open the book to a random page and ask the tulpa to read the first or last word on the page (or the pg#) and check results.

 

I haphazardly proposed this experiment in another thread, but feel that the post itself is to long for anyone to read. I also suggest the testing of other senses like hearing, touch, and smell, but at the moment can't think of a way to test those in a double blind and scientific manner.

 

Anyone interested please post the name and age of the tulpa used and a quick guess (1-10) on how solid/strong it/he/she is with the results.

[Vos]

I moved this thread to the metaphysical board. It seems to fit here the most.

[Luminesce]

In the past, most tulpas have reported being unable to sense things outside of their host's perception. I recall an imposed tulpa attempting to run ahead of their host to read a sign facing the other way and realizing they couldn't. Tulpas seem to inhabit (when not in the wonderland/general mindspace) your memory of the area, so any interactions they could do would be simulated off of your brain's knowledge. So they won't pass this test.

 

Edit: Okay well the thread was ninja'd into the metaphysics board right before I posted that, so let me rephrase.. Those with scientific mindsets have not reported anything supernatural. Of all the things I believe metaphysics may see results in however, ESP tests are not one that has ever succeeded. Tulpas have not been shown to be a conduit for ESP, either.

[SparrowNR]

To get things out of the way: I am a skeptic about all things metaphysical, and my headmates have never claimed any ability to see beyond my senses.

 

However, one of them, Wonya, is ever a proponent of the "let's try and see what happens" philosophy. So, I pulled out my trusty d20s and rolled them twenty times. In our case, I rolled them under a table. I couldn't see the dice, while he was imposed under in a place where he could. Each time I rolled, he told me what he "read."

 

His number / Actual number

 

9 / 16

4 / 13

11 / 9

13 / 12

15 / 8

1 / 10

10 / 11

5 / 2

4 / 16

9 / 17

4 / 1

11 / 14

17 / 4

20 / 6

6 / 10

14 / 19

18 / 19

18 / 18

13 / 7

2 / 3

 

As you can see, there were twenty rolls, and only one match. That is exactly what chance tells us to expect.

 

The way he described it, each number was just a feeling he got as he was imposed "reading" the numbers. He's always been strong at imposition, so it's not weakness on that part. We both believe this is simply a case of wishful thinking generating the numbers for him... essentially, he imposed the number he believed it to be into his own "vision."

 

Granted, as a host, I am biased. I do not believe astral projection to be a true phenomenon, and that is something that colors a few of my headmates. Wonya is not one of them, though; he's one of my system members who has an open mind. If any of mine could have pulled this off, it would have been him.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, Esterina and me already know that her perception is bound to mine.

And yes, she can do things literally behind my back during projection, but it's still her "translating" my perception to where she "is", meaning anything out of my view is based on memory, hearing and spatial awareness.

 

So of course she could never look at something I don't see, and never saw before, and know what it is - like a number on a piece of paper which is hidden from me. ^^

 

 

Greets,

AG

---

Or to put it in better terms: She's exactly like me, a mind living in a body.

And that body, its senses, that's the connection to the outside world.

So she has to rely on it just as much as me - aside from fancy tricks like projection, which bend these rules a little bit, but then again not really... as described above.

[greedfox]

When I posted this I didn't have time to test the theory myself, but we are really excited about the idea. We used a d20 and a book at a table for two, I couldn't see the die dropped behind the book but it ws easy to check results.

 

So up first was my willingly created companion, Liz.

 

Elizabeth's results: 0/28 ...

 

"Why 28?" Because she got discouraged,halfway to 50, by the failure, but I don't blame her. Liz wasn't very strong at anything and she's been neglected for years.

 

Now, to the sociopath fox that lives in my head, shaide.

 

Shaides results: 37/50

 

Shaide got all but one right untill he got frustrated and started barking nonsense numbers and quit trying. If you're wondering, the one he got wrong was his first guess, which I assume was just a guess based on his tone.

 

So yeah, honestly I've never thought to test either of my thoughtforms for any real skills, me and shaide play fight in lucid dream-space but I had never put it past him to try much of anything in the real world. Now I have to try to do some shadow boxing with him, though, I think he'll have an upper hand with a direct line to my nerves and an arcane understanding of my personal fighting style ... whatever, these things are weird.

 

(Tl;dr, one can, one can't)

[TheGreenQueen]

Something seems off about this.

 

I remember reading that in dreams, if you try to focus on writing, numbers, or other symbols, it will be gobble-de-gook. I don't remember if anyone says it's the same for the astral plane? But if it is, that means that symbols or small arrangements in particular have trouble translating through planes. If tulpas exist on the astral plane (or at least the one directly superimposed on the material world), having them tell you the shape, color, or size of a larger object would seem to be a fairer test. Granted, you can't do that double-blind by yourself, but you can get someone else to do it. Or maybe just use different colored construction paper and "shuffle" it like cards while wearing a blindfold?

[Tewi]

Something seems off about this.

 

I remember reading that in dreams, if you try to focus on writing, numbers, or other symbols, it will be gobble-de-gook. I don't remember if anyone says it's the same for the astral plane? But if it is, that means that symbols or small arrangements in particular have trouble translating through planes.

 

As I've been told, the astral plane does not reflect the physical plane one-for-one. Rather, it reflects the energy humans have created in perceiving and thinking about it. So, for example, visiting a newly refurnished house while astral projecting may instead show what the house looked like to the family living in it for years prior, and it may slowly change over time.

 

So, attempting to astral project to read some text or cards is unlikely to give accurate results. That's what Erin Pavlina said. Not remotely pretending I know this from experience.

 

 

However, I don't believe ESP is normally based exclusively on contact with the astral plane. It has a lot to do with the energy of others' thoughts (or just existence), and also information entities on other planes are trying to send to you (perhaps by request?), and so on. That being said, you're assuming tulpas are naturally inhabiting the astral plane during imposition, which I don't believe. For me it feels like projecting my sense of self onto our perception of the world, which is entirely in-mind. The place where, if you close your eyes, you can still get a general idea of what the room you're in looked like. Since it's based on memories and perception though, it doesn't tend to update without continued perception of some kind.

 

Perhaps ESP fills that role. But, we don't have it. Supposedly we could, but our attempts never amounted to anything.