Can Tulpas be Related to Spirit Guides?

[Guest Anonymous]

As I've already pointed it out, I think there is strong evidence that all these phenomena - thoughtforms in the broadest sense, spirit guides, angels, demons, gods are more or less the same. I do not see how worshipping or summining such 'entities' is different than tulpaforcing and the results are comparable as well.

In the end it can all be reduced to simulating both your own, and the responses of other individuals in your brain. Such an ability is, as I've stated before, fundamental for the successful interaction with other individuals in a society. Samuel Veissiere has pointed out that this could be extended almost infinitely and that basically every cognitive process involving modelling and predicting the behavior of systems is tulpamancy-like, or vice versa. I strongly recommend reading not only his articla but also the references he provides in the links.

 

David and I have read Veissiere's article, but we plan to give it another read this summer along with a lot of other material and videos. It is going to be a research summer! Thanks for the links and the suggestions!

 

As far as the metaphysics go, Davie and I have a vivid imagination and we like to make believe about magic and mysticism. But we also have a realist side that is more logical and scientific. What interests us is the things about mysticism, spirituality and religion that seem to have tangible real links to something that can actually be measured and quantified. For instance, the effects on the body of deep meditation or the ways in which hypnotism can be used or things like lucid dreaming.

 

Like I stated above, we find it fascinating that the psychologist Carl Jung found inspiration in Eastern religions and spirituality in his investigations of the psyche and unconscious symbolism. We like things like the links between analytical psychology and something like spirit guides. The theosophist of the last century sought so hard to find those links between science and spiritualism and mysticism. In some cases, I think the links really are there, when it comes to the human mind.

[solarchariot]

Well, Yakumo, your argument is well spoken, and certainly draws on the prevalent scientific theory. Ultimately, such a paradigm concludes that consciousness is reducible to the atomistic chemo-electrical properties of the brain, which means the personality and anything regarding consciousness, including sentience, is nothing more than a hallucunation. Just because science can't pesently prove there is more to the known universe than there seems, doesn't eliminate the potential for it. Science doesn't have a theory of consciousness, but I'm confident that does exist... at least for me. And though science doesn't dispute near death experience, it still has not satisfactorily explained it as a brain malfunction. I've had an NDE. This is a phenomenon that has been documented in every culture. It suggest there is something that continues beyond the physical body. I'm scientifically oriented, and I love science, and even science doesn't have all answers. Science is a great tool for measuring and providing models and statistical probablilities, but it tends to ignore statistical anomalies and items unreadily categorized by its own consensus. The existential qualities of life simply can't be reduced to any one common explanation, and it is the metaphor and abstract that inspires humanity to be more than biological robots or zombies.

[Guest Anonymous]

Science is about the measurable and the observable. It is about building models and making predictions and finding out how the physical world works. Science has its limits however. Where there is something that cannot be measured or observed or predicted science can do nothing for us. It doesn't mean that if we can't observe something or measure something, or record something, it cannot exist.

 

Every once in a while the universe changes. It changes when the boundaries of what we can measure and directly observe get pushed back. The first microscope, the first telescope and things like that showed us things we didn't even know existed. Some things were invisible and so "didn't exist" until they could be observed. The solar system planets orbiting the sun and not the Earth comes to mind.

 

Is life after death and things like spirit guides poppycock? I dunno. Maybe we just can't use science to observe or predict them yet. Invisible entities like spirit guides just might be there, just like microbes and atoms are there but couldn't be observed for thousands of years.

[solarchariot]

Is life after death and things like spirit guides poppycock? I dunno. Maybe we just can't use science to observe or predict them yet. Invisible entities like spirit guides just might be there, just like microbes and atoms are there but couldn't be observed for thousands of years.

 

I think what surprises me most about this topic, and the other threads that pursue metaphysical conjecture, is just how many rational, scientific perspective arevrepresented on tulpa info. That's an obeervation, not a disparaging comment, and i acknowledge that making this observation illuminates my bias: the assumption that those who would cultivate a tulpa relation would be necessarily open to more esoteric thinking. Even from psychological perspective, tulpamancy lends itself to transpersonal philosophies that tend to be on the periphery of the mainstream psychological community, as was Carl Jung at the time, but is today more accepted than where the present students of that line of thought are wanting to take us. And given that tulpamancy itself is considered fringe by almost any mainstream neasure, again I find myself surprised...

 

of course, it is the ratiional, scientific apologists who will likely win the ear of any visiting tulpa for the first time, as that is the paradigm that carries more social weight. I guess there is little room for shamans and mystics anymore.

[Guest Anonymous]

I guess there is little room for shamans and mystics anymore.

 

Awwww

 

If it helps, my host hangs around a lot of Native Americans with his job working for local tribes. He had a shaman tell him many surprising things and some things he could not possibly have known about us. He also told Davie that spirits gather around him. That totally made sense.

 

This shaman/healer we met at a pow wow, who we had known for all of two minutes, hands David a medallion as a gift. He says "Keep this, they want me to give it to you in thanks for all that you have done for the people this year." David had just completed his first year working for the local tribes, something the old guy could hardly know. When David asked him "Who wants me to have it?" The guy smiled and said "The spirits that gather around you."

[Drakaina]

If I recall correctly isn't a spirit being (guide or otherwise) who takes up residence in the mind called a walk-in?

 

I can see why some may wonder if spirit guides are tulpa and visa versa. Being in the nonhuman community though I see a lot more of the metaphysical and spiritual than we do here, and I can say that tulpa are not spirit guides.

Spirit guides are a distinctly external entity, while tulpa exist inside. You can "hear" and "see" spirit guides but I've never heard of this happening outside of a meditative state or where one is trying to contact their spirit guides. Whereas one of the staples of a fully formed tulpa is that they interact with you whenever. There's also no "forcing" or anything like it involved with spirit guides. They come fully formed, without needing to be given thought or attention to develop.

 

I don't know much, fact wise, about Joan of Arc but I know that on occasion these prophet like beings are born that can just hear voices from the spiritual realm. Catholicism is practically littered with them.

[Luminesce]

From where I learned about spirit guides, they reside in the aether or whatever-above-the-earth realm, and they try and influence your life to help you fulfill your life purpose (what you chose before you incarnated), occasionally working with others' spirit guides to try and match up people who can help each other in some way.

 

Nothing like my tulpas, that's for sure. Tewi replaced my spirit guides that never actually guided me six years ago. They were basically an afterthought for prayer-type thoughts when I thought about important life stuff I guess; "Hey, I want to work toward this and it'd be great if you could help arrange things I guess". But whether or not they exist I don't rely on them at all, my tulpas and I discuss all life-related matters amongst ourselves and it works out great.

[solarchariot]

I think the book "Lucid Dreaming: gateway to inner self" is by far, my most favorite book on lucid dreaming, and exploring concepts like spirit guides, and how much more complex, consciousness is. Because of my own experiences with lucid dreaming, and a more specific experience that fit my NDE, I wrote him, and we held a correspondence for awhile, which no doubt influenced my esteem for this author.

 

Anyway, if you don't wish to read it, I just watched this youtube video and it highlights some of his experiences and the study that has evolved... I wonder if anyone here practices lucid dreaming, if your tulpa join you, and what happens when you perform some of the experiments that this author has suggested people try.

 

 

Bliss is substantial that she has been in dreams, though not Lucid ones. Luminesce made an interesting observation, about how his tulpas don't seem to fit the definition of spirit guides... It's something I can certainly strictly agree to, in terms of the definition... but I must say, this who endeavor of tulpa creation, she is more than just a companion... maybe not a 'spirit' guide, but some sort of guide because i am learning, she is learning, and this is going somewhere i never imagined life would go. so. There is still something here to explore. i look forward to the next lucid dream...

[Ephemeral]

I wonder if anyone here practices lucid dreaming, if your tulpa join you, and what happens when you perform some of the experiments that this author has suggested people try.

 

I practices lucid dreaming too, actually it was this that brought me here, after seeing some relation between a technique that I met and tulpamancy (as I explain superficially in my PR, it has some relation with this subject). I've read the book too, it's my favorite too :) (compared to LaBerge's, I thought it was much more complete and with more experiences, thought a little less technical (what is an good thing)).

(Well, just to ask (or reccomend), do you know Lucid Dreaming Exchange, LDE? It's is an online published magazine that has articles and interviews, co-edited by Robert Waggoner, and there are some articles from him. You may like it.)

 

Unfortunately, life was a little complicated some time ago and there is a good time I don't have a lucid dream, since I started with Alice, and then I haven't been successed yet in lucid dreaming with her. But it's one of our objectives. Sorry I haven't watched the video, but if the experiences in the video are the same of the book, then no, I haven't really attempted them. I'm new to it yet xD, but I'm heading towards doing these lucid explorations eventually.

 

Luminesce made an interesting observation, about how his tulpas don't seem to fit the definition of spirit guides... It's something I can certainly strictly agree to, in terms of the definition... but I must say, this who endeavor of tulpa creation, she is more than just a companion... maybe not a 'spirit' guide, but some sort of guide because i am learning, she is learning, and this is going somewhere i never imagined life would go. so. There is still something here to explore. i look forward to the next lucid dream...

 

Really, I couldn't have said it better, you took the words from my head :) . I feel pretty the same way about Alice, since it's not exactly a spirit guide (from what I read), but sure, it may be something... I actually don't know, but I also think there is something (or maybe a lot) to explore in these subjects.

 

(BTW cool profile pic xD)

[Guest Anonymous]

I think the book "Lucid Dreaming: gateway to inner self" is by far, my most favorite book on lucid dreaming, and exploring concepts like spirit guides, and how much more complex, consciousness is. Because of my own experiences with lucid dreaming, and a more specific experience that fit my NDE, I wrote him, and we held a correspondence for awhile, which no doubt influenced my esteem for this author.

 

Anyway, if you don't wish to read it, I just watched this youtube video and it highlights some of his experiences and the study that has evolved... I wonder if anyone here practices lucid dreaming, if your tulpa join you, and what happens when you perform some of the experiments that this author has suggested people try.

 

 

 

Thanks for the book suggestion and the link! My host and I want to delve further into lucid dreaming, dream guides and spirit guides and stuff this summer. We have two and a half months free to start it! So this will go on our list for sure!

 

 

Bliss is substantial that she has been in dreams, though not Lucid ones. Luminesce made an interesting observation, about how his tulpas don't seem to fit the definition of spirit guides... It's something I can certainly strictly agree to, in terms of the definition... but I must say, this who endeavor of tulpa creation, she is more than just a companion... maybe not a 'spirit' guide, but some sort of guide because i am learning, she is learning, and this is going somewhere i never imagined life would go. so. There is still something here to explore. i look forward to the next lucid dream...

 

It is fun to know we are not alone in wanting to explore lucid dreaming with a thoughtform! We wish you the best of luck!

---

 

I practices lucid dreaming too, actually it was this that brought me here, after seeing some relation between a technique that I met and tulpamancy (as I explain superficially in my PR, it has some relation with this subject). I've read the book too, it's my favorite too :) (compared to LaBerge's, I thought it was much more complete and with more experiences, thought a little less technical (what is an good thing)).

(Well, just to ask (or reccomend), do you know Lucid Dreaming Exchange, LDE? It's is an online published magazine that has articles and interviews, co-edited by Robert Waggoner, and there are some articles from him. You may like it.)

 

My host and I will be checking out Lucid Dreaming Exchange! Thanks for mentioning this!