How important is expectation really in imposition?

[neo]

After spending some time trying visual imposition today, getting like a 5/10 or 6/10 in quality with a lot of focus involved I got tired and decided to call it a day, was just about to go to bed when a goddamn bug came flying around the room, I get my flip flops and got ready for battle. Now I'm looking around the ceiling for a bug (that I know still there) and BOOM 10/10 imposed bug on the ceiling. Not the real one, still don't know where the sucker went, but the one I imposed was indistinguishable almost if it weren't flickering and the sensation of imposition I wouldn't be able to tell. Now I'm starting to realize the reason it was so perfect and easy to impose was my expectations of seeing a bug there (because there really was one somewhere).

 If that's so important, how can I create the real expectation to see something that I know it's not physically there?

 It also got me wondering about people who report seeing ghosts and elves and stuff like that would make a lot of sense if belief/expectation played such a giant role in it.

[Lucilyn]

well on the one hand I want to say idk if expectation is THAT important, but on the other if you didn't at all expect to see your tulpa when trying imposition I feel like you wouldn't at all lol, so I guess it's technically important?

What's the difference in "expectation" and "belief (in imposition)" here? I feel like if you believe in imposition the expectation for it to be possible/happening is automatic

 

as for "expecting" to see your tulpa when imposing (like when turning to look at them or something), I guess that's a matter of immersion? the more you can feel immersed in your tulpa really being there the more you'd expect to see them I guess

 

 

all that said, our brains seem to be wired to think they see bugs (especially in low light/corner of your eye) and I don't think you'll get the same level of effect with imposing your tulpa

Edited April 28, 2020 by Lucilyn

[neo]

On 4/28/2020 at 5:32 AM, Lucilyn said:

What's the difference in "expectation" and "belief (in imposition)" here? I feel like if you believe in imposition the expectation for it to be possible/happening is automatic

I guess the difference would be that when it comes to imposition I believe that I can see something that I want to see that's not really there at the same physical space, but with the bug I just knew there was a real one there and was just searching for it with my eyes. 

 Maybe you're right that we're wired for that though. But it's like when religious people say they had visions, you never see a Christian having visions of Allah or the other way around. Usually the person believes in ghosts first and then they see them. I think that by knowing the real nature of tulpas we are in a significant disadvantage compared to a person that believes they're seeing something physically real and external of the brain, kinda like how placebos work.

Edited April 29, 2020 by neo

[Lucilyn]

well, the hallucination route is usually full of unintentional/uncontrollable stuff and inherently less satisfying, I think everyone's a lot better off learning to do tulpamancy stuff while in full control

 

but I do still think the "immersion" concept would help with imposition, the more invested you are in having the experience the more easily it'll come I think, but otherwise it's just practice practice practice to make it look/feel realer

[GrayTheCat]

Expectation is an important ingredient to making imposition work. If you expect to hear something that isn't there and try hard enough, eventually you will hear it. If you look at static and expect to see an image, eventually you can make out an image.

 

You don't necessarily have to believe it, except for being willing to suspend your disbelief. Believing a hallucination is a hallucination doesn't stop it from happening in my experience.

Imposition seems to have this other important skill- overriding your sense of reality and training the mind to treat some hallucinations as real. When I was really sleep deprived once, I expected my cat to be on the ground and saw him only to realize seconds later he wasn't there. I also expected my brother to bother me and turns out he never went to my room. For whatever reason, I was more prone to perfect hallucinations for those few days, and my expectations were able to override reality more than than usual.

Also, certain bugs like roaches freak me out, so I probably have better memory recall of what they look like. Coupled with some hard-wired fears of something crawling on me, roaches are probably easier for me to impose than a stuffed animal.

I have found presence imposition to be really effective at making Ranger feel real, and as a result it seems like he's really there even though I did not impose him visually. If your visualization ability is really strong, I believe it's easier to hallucinate and have the brain take that mental image and treat it like reality, and I believe that's the largest barrier I have to visual imposition.

Ultimately, I think both are required- you need expectation (presence imposition or a strong emotional response) and strong visualization skills to make visual imposition work.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Ranger