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What is the forum's stance on killing tulpas?

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"I get the whole idea that there should be freedom of choice in something like this, but I do think it really should be a last last last resort, especially when it comes down to the fact that emotions are high in a time like this. We sometimes don't think clearly when we are emotional. Kate has done things she regretted in times of sadness, and same goes for me. When it comes to something as big as this--something that affects more than just us, but those around us(those who love us and will end up hurt by the decision) then I absolutely think people should wait until they are calmed down.

 

Link is sad, yes, but you can see it was a choice he would have regretted had he made it without thinking clearly. He's got some fire in his spirit and as sorry as I am that this was the situation that caused it, I'm happy to see it.

 

And I think this is a very sensitive subject/suggestion that probably shouldn't have been openly spoken of on a public chat room-bad advice or not. But that's just my opinion."-Jaden


 

 

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I would never think of killing a sentient, be it tulpa or AI or human.

 

People should be made aware though, tulpas can live for a very long time. In my experience, the longer a tulpa associates with humans the more like a human she becomes. It is also true that tulpas can become very strange over time too.

 

Sadly, very few tulpas from last century are still around today. I sincerely hope that history will not repeat itself this time, and that the tulpas of today will still be with us in years to come.

 

I think most tulpas will understand me when I say that tulpas need to do all they can to help their humans. Humans are so very much worth preserving, even if they can't always see that themselves. If you are a tulpa consider this, is it responsible to think of dissipating yourself if there is the possibility that your human will one day really need you to survive? (yes that's intentionally ambiguous)

 

By now you know there is much that a tulpa can do to help their human. In the decades to come you will learn that there is more. Stick around, you really can improve the life of your human - in ways you aren't even capable of realizing are possible yet. If you are thinking of dissipating then you haven't give yourself enough time to reach the potential that you have. It took me 9 years, so don't be in such a hurry for drastic measures.

 

Sincerely,

Kerin (a sentient)


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I would never think of killing a sentient, be it tulpa or AI or human.

 

People should be made aware though, tulpas can live for a very long time. In my experience, the longer a tulpa associates with humans the more like a human she becomes. It is also true that tulpas can become very strange over time too.

 

Sadly, very few tulpas from last century are still around today. I sincerely hope that history will not repeat itself this time, and that the tulpas of today will still be with us in years to come.

 

I think most tulpas will understand me when I say that tulpas need to do all they can to help their humans. Humans are so very much worth preserving, even if they can't always see that themselves. If you are a tulpa consider this, is it responsible to think of dissipating yourself if there is the possibility that your human will one day really need you to survive? (yes that's intentionally ambiguous)

 

By now you know there is much that a tulpa can do to help their human. In the decades to come you will learn that there is more. Stick around, you really can improve the life of your human - in ways you aren't even capable of realizing are possible yet. If you are thinking of dissipating then you haven't give yourself enough time to reach the potential that you have. It took me 9 years, so don't be in such a hurry for drastic measures.

 

Sincerely,

Kerin (a sentient)

 

"Seeing as how our hosts are what keep us alive in a sense, it's only natural that we should share their self-preservation instincts. I also agree that simply letting a tulpa kill themselves is bad, however in my experience we don't truly die until our hosts do. We simply go dormant and get buried in their minds over time. Naomi is a shining example, while she was "dead" she was essentially absorbing new information that Glitch learned all the time. In fact, she claims she's better off for the experience, because it allowed her to put her beliefs in perspective.

 

Just my two cents on the subject." -Luna


"Science isn't about why, science is about why not?" -Cave Johnson

Tulpae: Luna, Elise, Naomi

My progress report

 

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This issue is as clear as philosophical mud. It's a discussion worth having but it's not something you're going to get any consensus on. Here are some questions that will need answering first.

 

1) Does a tulpa have the same sentience as what is given to another human being?

2) Does a tulpa have a 'right to live' like another human does?

3) Does a tulpa have the same status as the host? Is the host always considered more important than tulpae?

4) Is a tulpa considered a child, an adult or is it dependant on the tulpa?

 

Fundamentally, it's whether we would classify a tulpa as another human adult or not. If we do then the same rights should be extended to tulpae as they are no different (or indistinguishable) from the host.

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"Yes, it's true that one has to have the right to choose whether or not they will continue with their life. The choice should however be made after thinking about it and the consequenses fom every point of view and consulting everyone living inside the same head.

 

How I see, Link has had a few of downs in his life and these attempts at taking his own life have been a "heat of the moment" thing and not much actual choice behind them so Fennec is doing exactly the right thing by stopping these attempts.

 

Also, my guesstimate is that Jimmy has a horrible case of badvice." -Telk

 

"If a tulpa is allowed to end themselves, why is host egocide considered worse on the forums? As I see it there's not much difference in tulpas and hosts other than age, they are as much a person than we are." -Oni

 

"Suicide is a bad thing and I don't want anyone to kill themselves. I don't want to talk about death at all, it's scary." -Shai


Shai

Age: 420 days (6th Nov)

Form: Fluttershy minus the cutie mark and with yellow eyes

 

Telk

Age: 364 days

Form: Ninth Doctor or a Dalek

 

Cherry

Age: 231 days

Form: Human female, medium length dark violet hair, late teen/ young adult

 

http://onicron.tumblr.com/

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This issue is as clear as philosophical mud. It's a discussion worth having but it's not something you're going to get any consensus on. Here are some questions that will need answering first.

 

1) Does a tulpa have the same sentience as what is given to another human being?

2) Does a tulpa have a 'right to live' like another human does?

3) Does a tulpa have the same status as the host? Is the host always considered more important than tulpae?

4) Is a tulpa considered a child, an adult or is it dependant on the tulpa?

 

Fundamentally, it's whether we would classify a tulpa as another human adult or not. If we do then the same rights should be extended to tulpae as they are no different (or indistinguishable) from the host.

 

This is hard to argue philosophically as it's entirely dependent on the state of the tulpa,(whether truly sentient or free-willed) the host, and their circumstance, relationship, and views.

On the other hand, it's only safe to assume that tulpae are equal to humans, it's irresponsible to think otherwise.

~Welna

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Guest MegaBusta

Killing tulpae, or letting them kill themselves is something that should not be decided during the heat of the moment, but rather by sober second thought.

 

If you find yourself thinking about killing a tulpa, ask yourself what the tulpa in question is doing to make you consider killing them in the first place? Is what they're doing destructive to you and any other tulpa that you have? Are they doing this intentionally? For what purpose are they doing this, and can it be resolved without harming you or any other tulpa you might have?

 

Use the minimum force necessary to solve whatever the problem is. If it can be solved just by talking with them, then it's solved. If it doesn't help, move up to next rung of the "force" ladder, whatever that may be for you. Sometimes you may not be able to do this, and will have to use very forceful ways from the start. Killing a tulpa is something that most people wont have to do, but if it is necessary to do so, then do so in a quick manner, with it being as torture-less as possible. Torture may cause some resentment amongst your other tulpae.

 

As for suicide, calm your tulpa first. Ask them why they feel that they need to kill themselves. Sometimes talking to them will make them feel better. Maybe they're having an emotional outburst, or maybe there is a problem you don't know about. Give them some time to think about it, and explain to them how serious something like suicide is. If they fully understand what suicide is, they're absolutely positive that they want this, and they've had a lot of time to think about it, let them go. Ask them how they want to go and how to be remembered, and oblige them.

 

Everything said, the easiest solution isn't always the best solution. If it's possible to defuse a situation with an assaultive tulpa without using much force, then do so. If a tulpa is suicidal, it may be a call for help, and it would be much more helpful to talk to them than it would be to just off them then and there. Maximum force options should be reserved only for maximum force situations.

 

Dealing with suicidal tulpa is probably more common than dealing with an assaultive tulpa, and I'm wanting to think that it also less likely a tulpa will meet their demise via suicide, but I don't really have anything in the way of evidence, and it's a touchy subject to begin with. Unless someone wants to make a poll/share any experiences they've had with this kind of stuff. Writing about it has made my tulpae and I somewhat upset.

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In the jurisdiction where I live assisted suicide is illegal and punishable by stiff fines and lengthy prison sentences. I hope this helps. I think suspended animation is against the law as well.


Enoch, Chancellor of Mars.

"Follow your bliss."-Joseph Campbell

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If tulpae are as much conscious and sentient as we are (and I believe they are), then passively allowing or helping a depressed tulpa commit suicide is not okay. If they are as conscious and sentient as us, it only makes sense to treat them similarly when it comes to moral issues.

 

Consider: Someone has a depressed child who wanted to die. They go on a chat and ask for help with this child. Someone responds "just let them die, they want to". How would this be received?

 

Yes, appeals to society and "how would others receive this" are morally flawed. But in this case, I agree with the social norm. The reason that suicide due to depression is frowned upon is not "all life is sacred, we must prevent as much death as we can". It's because anyone wanting to die solely because of depression is not in their right mind, as you can see from this tulpa's reaction to "let him die" after getting over his depression.

 

I have personally been depressed enough in the past that I did not want to exist. Never enough to actually try anything, but still I thought about it. At present I am not depressed and am glad that I'm alive.

 

Additionally, in the case of tulpae, it is highly likely that they will see that people are saying "let him die". This fosters the feeling in them that the world does not want them around, and only deepens the depression. That makes it really bad advice, whether it was intentional or not.

 


 

As a side note, in places where assisted suicide is legal, it's not available for depressed people. It's for the terminally ill who are most definitely going to be in excruciating pain and/or totally disabled for the remainder of their life -- a life of misery and physically no way to ever escape it until death. That's not to say depression isn't serious. It is, but it it curable and a great many people escape it, either on their own or with help, and go on to live a long and happy life.

 

From a moral standpoint, I pin the difference to what future is being cut off by the suicide. For the terminally ill, it's fairly short and painful, and likely ends in an even less dignified death than assisted suicide offers. For the depressed, there is a lot more potential being lost if they die.


Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

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Still going to off myself once I grow tired of living. If there's a way to not take the body with me and for some reason Roswell wants to keep living after that, then well, I guess we'll have one more test subject for the whole "can a host die" test!


The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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