Tulpas and heaven

[Sock]

I'm not seeing it. Mind showing your workings?

Wouldn't that imply that the spirit is the consciousness, and not the soul?

 

Not quite. The way I read it, it implied that the spirit was the only witness to the thoughts of the soul.

 

Oh, and another point. Man is made in God's image by an omnipotent being, and a tulpa is made in man's image by a fallible mortal. Does that make a tulpa a poor knock-off, religiously speaking?

 

Not at all. Rather, I believe it's a testement to how amazing God is at making things. Think about it: when we're making a tulpa (Or if you want to get all clinical and non-Bhuddist, dissociating), you're taking a piece of your conciousness, and breaking it off. Instead of you getting dumber as a result, or the oiece just fizzling into nothing, that piece instead grows into it's own little consciousness. Though rather limited from the outset, this little piece will quickly grow, knowing what it's original knows, and learning to be it's own person that lives in harmony with it's "host". Soon, with the proper care, it too will be as intellegent as it's host, and will even be able to take the reigns of the body if allowed. Then we have the wonder that is imposition, where we are able to see, feel, and smell this fragment of our consciousness as if it were a completely separate being.

 

And how does this all happen? With some sort of pagan ritual? Some special Meditation? No! All it take is a ton of concentration...sometimes not even that. Sometimes this phenomenon happens completely on accident. Yet, with the proper care, this event can not only end well, but improve the quality of life for the maker. All this simply from breaking something God made. How is this not wonderful? Who else but God could have such a brilliant fail safe? How can you not look at what you just did and say "This is pretty dang cool?"

 

So rather than looking down on your little creation as nothing compared to what God would make, see it as an example of how far the Lord's brilliance extends.

 

 

Not to get into a religious debate but it also said in the bible that God created every animal on the planet (one after the other) as a potential mate for Adam until out of spite for his pickyness then put Adam to sleep and made a clone of him from one of his ribs without a yogurt cannon... and then the bible says no to bestiality.

 

Agape brah! You can love something and have it as a companion without wanting to pork it.

[skittles]

 

Not quite. The way I read it, it implied that the spirit was the only witness to the thoughts of the soul.

 

 

Not at all. Rather, I believe it's a testement to how amazing God is at making things. Think about it: when we're making a tulpa (Or if you want to get all clinical and non-Bhuddist, dissociating), you're taking a piece of your conciousness, and breaking it off. Instead of you getting dumber as a result, or the oiece just fizzling into nothing, that piece instead grows into it's own little consciousness. Though rather limited from the outset, this little piece will quickly grow, knowing what it's original knows, and learning to be it's own person that lives in harmony with it's "host". Soon, with the proper care, it too will be as intellegent as it's host, and will even be able to take the reigns of the body if allowed. Then we have the wonder that is imposition, where we are able to see, feel, and smell this fragment of our consciousness as if it were a completely separate being.

 

And how does this all happen? With some sort of pagan ritual? Some special Meditation? No! All it take is a ton of concentration...sometimes not even that. Sometimes this phenomenon happens completely on accident. Yet, with the proper care, this event can not only end well, but improve the quality of life for the maker. All this simply from breaking something God made. How is this not wonderful? Who else but God could have such a brilliant fail safe? How can you not look at what you just did and say "This is pretty dang cool?"

 

So rather than looking down on your little creation as nothing compared to what God would make, see it as an example of how far the Lord's brilliance extends.

 

 

Agape brah! You can love something and have it as a companion without wanting to pork it.

 

I think we're misunderstanding each other, I'd quote the passages I am talking about but due to my bookshelf being full, my bible is in a box somewhere.

[Lacquer]

 

Not quite. The way I read it, it implied that the spirit was the only witness to the thoughts of the soul.

 

 

Not at all. Rather, I believe it's a testement to how amazing God is at making things. Think about it: when we're making a tulpa (Or if you want to get all clinical and non-Bhuddist, dissociating), you're taking a piece of your conciousness, and breaking it off. Instead of you getting dumber as a result, or the oiece just fizzling into nothing, that piece instead grows into it's own little consciousness. Though rather limited from the outset, this little piece will quickly grow, knowing what it's original knows, and learning to be it's own person that lives in harmony with it's "host". Soon, with the proper care, it too will be as intellegent as it's host, and will even be able to take the reigns of the body if allowed. Then we have the wonder that is imposition, where we are able to see, feel, and smell this fragment of our consciousness as if it were a completely separate being.

 

And how does this all happen? With some sort of pagan ritual? Some special Meditation? No! All it take is a ton of concentration...sometimes not even that. Sometimes this phenomenon happens completely on accident. Yet, with the proper care, this event can not only end well, but improve the quality of life for the maker. All this simply from breaking something God made. How is this not wonderful? Who else but God could have such a brilliant fail safe? How can you not look at what you just did and say "This is pretty dang cool?"

 

So rather than looking down on your little creation as nothing compared to what God would make, see it as an example of how far the Lord's brilliance extends.

 

 

Agape brah! You can love something and have it as a companion without wanting to pork it.

 

Every time you talk about God and such, it makes me smile. Just wanted you to know you made someone happy.

[waffles]

 

Not quite. The way I read it, it implied that the spirit was the only witness to the thoughts of the soul.

Despite the fact that the quote never mentions the soul, and says that only the spirit can see the thoughts? I know I said "The Bible is open to interpretation" but that doesn't mean you can make unsupported inferences.

 

And look, I have another problem with the rest of your reply. If you're saying that a tulpa is roughly on par with humans, doesn't that make humans on par with God in terms of creation? Isn't that blasphemy?

[Sock]

Despite the fact that the quote never mentions the soul, and says that only the spirit can see the thoughts? I know I said "The Bible is open to interpretation" but that doesn't mean you can make unsupported inferences.

 

Even then, there's still the other quotes that imply there being a difference. You could say I make a leap, but you do too in assuming every reference for "soul" and "spirit" is interchangeable.

 

And look, I have another problem with the rest of your reply. If you're saying that a tulpa is roughly on par with humans, doesn't that make humans on par with God in terms of creation? Isn't that blasphemy?

 

Lol wat? Did you miss the part when I said "All this simply from breaking something God made"? Maybe I got caught up in the whole praising God thing that I lost track of your question, but with that line I effectively said:

 

"Man didn't make anything, he just took advantage of a feature God built into the human consciousness."

 

Or have you not noticed that tulpa having nigh perfect anatomy? I mean, all the "creator" has to do is think up a rough estimate of the form, and all the measurements and such are taken care of. Concerning the innards? All one has to do is vaguely think about them and they're there. Personality? Not really necessary, as the tulpa will grow a personality with age and experience. At best, doing personality give the budding thought form a vague idea of what they can/should be like, but I find it's best to discard it once they can move around.

 

The entire process of consciously making a tulpa is pretty automated. The only thing the "creator" has to do is give the form enough attention, speech being the best way I've found, so that the piece of consciousness doesn't meld back with the original. Then the whole thing with deviation, where the form changes how they look based on the subconscious want of the host, or the tulpa's own whim, takes away even more control from the creator.

 

So, while a tulpa is potentially on par with man, this does not make man on par with God. God created man in his own image, but man is in no way on his level, as man cannot create out of nothing, breath life into dust, and all that other stuff. If anything, tulpa being mentally equal to their maker is an indicator of how low man actually is...on top of the whole process being so automatic that it's difficult to truly say that man made the tulpa at all.

 

tl;dr - I never said nor implied that Man was on par with God, and I think the fact that even in imposition, the tulpa is not truly there should make this obvious.

[Renfer112]

So- question. If a person were to have an out-of-body experience, would the tulpa share the experience? Would they even be in the body afterward? Or would they fade when the host "died"?

[waffles]

 

Even then, there's still the other quotes that imply there being a difference. You could say I make a leap, but you do too in assuming every reference for "soul" and "spirit" is interchangeable.

I never said they weren't different. It's just that you associate either religious concept with another biological concept, separated by the vastness of both field and time. It's one thing to equate them, and another to equate them without any evidence.

 

Lol wat? Did you miss the part when I said "All this simply from breaking something God made"? Maybe I got caught up in the whole praising God thing that I lost track of your question, but with that line I effectively said:

 

"Man didn't make anything, he just took advantage of a feature God built into the human consciousness.

Alright, so we're going to take phenomena of the mind as God's work? That brings us to praising the Lord for schizophrenia, dementia, Alzheimer's, somatisiation disorder, and so on.

I'm not trying to get into the whole "Diseases are God's fault" stuff, but you can't say some things are God's doing, and other equivalent things aren't

"It's not a bug, it's a feature", eh?

[Enoch327]

I am so glad Sock is a part of our community. Now Waffles has a good sparing partner.

[Sock]

I never said they weren't different.

 

Your initial posts gave the whole dichotomy vibe, thus why I answered the way I did to begin with.

 

It's just that you associate either religious concept with another biological concept, separated by the vastness of both field and time. It's one thing to equate them, and another to equate them without any evidence.

 

I will concede that I could have brought out some much better evidence to back my claim, or at least used the concept of the "fragmented soul" to explain that viewpoint.

 

You get the point for that, and I'll find more material to better explain my stance.

 

Alright, so we're going to take phenomena of the mind as God's work? That brings us to praising the Lord for schizophrenia, dementia, Alzheimer's, somatisiation disorder, and so on.

I'm not trying to get into the whole "Diseases are God's fault" stuff, but you can't say some things are God's doing, and other equivalent things aren't

"It's not a bug, it's a feature", eh?

 

...

 

This is...huh...

 

This is an interesting twist, even if it's a stretch.

 

Me using "Break" implies that I too, see this whole thing as a neat bug. How the consciousness reacts to being broken is a marvel, but even I know that a good deal of known cases result in some rather nasty stuff happening. I say because there are many tha live normally with in this condition, and hide it because of the popular notions of multiple personalities in one body.

 

I will still say that tulpa are created using a proccess so automated the creator barely needs to be involved at all beyond deciding "I'm going to make a tulpa!" This on top of the whole mental glitch thing.

[waffles]

Me using "Break" implies that I too, see this whole thing as a neat bug. How the consciousness reacts to being broken is a marvel, but even I know that a good deal of known cases result in some rather nasty stuff happening. I say because there are many tha live normally with in this condition, and hide it because of the popular notions of multiple personalities in one body.

 

I will still say that tulpa are created using a proccess so automated the creator barely needs to be involved at all beyond deciding "I'm going to make a tulpa!" This on top of the whole mental glitch thing.

 

Okay look. I do not remember breaking my consciousness, okay? I didn't rend God's creation in two! I just talked to myself for a bit. That does not constitute, for me, what you might call "breaking" my consciousness. I do not get this.

 

More importantly, you ignored, like, my entire point. You know, the comparison to mental illness. But now you're also saying that the creation process isn't God's intention, so, yeah.