Tulpas and heaven

[Lacquer]

Not that i'm into that metaphysical crap, no offence to the metaphysics guys.

 

If you don't intend to offend, then don't word what you type as such that you have to cover your ass by saying "no offence".

 

Just a tip.

[Chupi]

Weren't tulpas created by Tibetten monks? I think they'd believe that a tulpa would go to the afterlife, seeing as a tulpa was supposed to be FROM the ethereal plane.

 

To my knowledge, Buddhists don't see tulpae as being spirits dragged in from an ethereal plane and made physical. They're more illusory beings created by the mind -- closer to what most of our community sees them as. They're used as a teaching tool: If you can so readily create and destroy what looks, feels and acts exactly like a physical person, it rather calls into question the nature of reality, or at least your perception of it.

[Sock]

In Christianity at least, souls aren't thought about like that. For one, your soul isn't really yours to mess with; it's not something that humans can or should be "splitting". But, more basically, that's not how souls are interpreted. Your soul is you in the most basic form. You can't split it because it's simply not an object like that. It's your "breath of life" and what makes you human. It's not quantifiable or, as I said, accessible.

 

Consciousness is biological, really. It's the soul that really makes humans special. If consciousness were enough to get into Heaven, then I guess animals would get to go as well. I think it's generally said that animals don't go to heaven, so I guess something conscious but not 'human' - with human soul - probably wouldn't go to heaven. 

 

Can't quite agree with that. The Bible teachs that man is a three-part being, rather than a two part one. Those three parts being The Body, the Soul, and the Spirit. More modern teachings make the soul and the spirit out like the same thing, but when the text refers to them, it makes them out to be two different things: The soul being the consciousness, and the spirit being the supernatural self, so to say. The spirit, rather than the soul, is what sets men apart from animals, and allows men to felloship/communicate with God. When the Lord made men "in his image", he meant that man would be a three part being, like himself.

 

Now, how does this apply to tulpa having souls or not? To answer that question: Yes, they have souls, since the soul is the consciousness, and even animals have this. On top of this, the tulpa is pretty much made from a piece of one's soul, so the notion that they don't just wouldn't make sense in the trichotomous(sp?) viewpoint.

 

From this perspective, the true question should be: do tulpa have a spirit? For this question, I'll still say yes, since they're made from a person's soul, they also share the person's spirit, and through that may commune with God. Taking all this into account, I'd say that tulpa can, indeed, go to heaven assuming they are right in the Lord's eyes. If you're Christian and don't believe me, then take the time to ask the Lord yourself. Afterall, the faith of Christ tells that all members are piests, and that the Holy Spirit will guide them if they allow it. If your reaqlly want the answer, hold a fast as well, make the Lord know you really want the answer. If you get something different thn what I say, feel free to tell me, as I don't wish to lead anyone down the wrong path. You know how the good Lord thinks of people lying in his name.

 

May the Lord Bless you all~

[waffles]

 

when the [bible] refers to them, it [says]: The soul [is] the consciousness

 

Can you give me a quote for that?

Also, tulpas are not probably biologically conscious. I know most people work on that assumption, but it's still worth considering.

[Sock]

 

Can you give me a quote for that?

 

1 Corinthians 2:11 – For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

 

This one implies it, if not outright say it. Also these, implying the two are different:

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and a discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

 

Also, tulpas are not probably biologically conscious. I know most people work on that assumption, but it's still worth considering.

 

I'm more of the thought that tulpa, like any other thing, takes some time to truly become conscious. In fact, I know one who would say that a Tulpa's consciousness can be affected by the method used to make them. Suffice to say, if your tulpa is only a month old, and hasn't done anything completely shocking yet, there's a high likelyhood that they're not all there yet.

 

This easily explains why so many tulpa around nowadays are, frankly, baby-ish, and lack any and all personality,. They're simply not developed enough to be considered their own being, rather at that low age, they're a slightly different version of their host. Big changes take time, and many in the community do not know this, thus when I see tulpa around nowadays, they seem...well...hollow. This in turn adds credence to tulpa not being "conscious", and thus where we are right now.

 

In short: FAQman had a good point about time and parroting, if not to the level he taught.

[GuessWho]

I would see it as this:

Your tulpa is part of yourself. Its consciousness is part of your own, and it's memories stored in your brain.

Surely that means that you (with your tulpa) will be one being in heaven (as you are now).

Your tulpa would be with you as long as you retain your memories. Your memories make you who you are. If you are to remain the same person in heaven as you are now, your memories will have to remain untouched and the tulpa will be included.

It will surely remain as a thoughtform, as it is now.

 

For that to be possible, it will mean that your memories are not stored only in your brain, but also form part of your spirit.

 

---

 

That being said, the nature of your relationship with your tulpa(s) and their actions may have an impact whether you end up in heaven or not in the first place.

Although we treat them as their own beings, they are essentially part of us. (As in: A bad tulpa makes you a bad person - Allowing your tulpa to commit sin/crime is as good as doing it yourself.)

Obviously, whatever they do (without possessing you) counts as thought rather than actions, but some bad thoughts are considered sin too.

 

---

 

Of course, Everything I said above is just speculation.

I can't say for sure until I find out for myself (by which point I most likely won't be able to tell you anyway)

[waffles]

This one implies it, if not outright says it.

1 Corinthians 2:11 – For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

I'm not seeing it. Mind showing your workings?

Wouldn't that imply that the spirit is the consciousness, and not the soul?

 

Oh, and another point. Man is made in God's image by an omnipotent being, and a tulpa is made in man's image by a fallible mortal. Does that make a tulpa a poor knock-off, religiously speaking?

[skittles]

After a bit of a think about it, I'd assume that if you die with your tulpa (after they gained sentience) that that sentience would be kinda like a soul. Also as a point, if I had a life long tulpa and arrived at the gates of heaven after death, I wouldn't set foot inside without them.

[Semi-Nomadic]

Oh, and another point. Man is made in God's image by an omnipotent being, and a tulpa is made in man's image by a fallible mortal. Does that make a tulpa a poor knock-off, religiously speaking?

No more than fantasy worldbuilding is a poor knock-off of Creation, I'd think... At least the Tolkien and Lewis duo believed that sub-creation is a way to honor the Almighty.

[skittles]

I'm not seeing it. Mind showing your workings?

Wouldn't that imply that the spirit is the consciousness, and not the soul?

 

Oh, and another point. Man is made in God's image by an omnipotent being, and a tulpa is made in man's image by a fallible mortal. Does that make a tulpa a poor knock-off, religiously speaking?

 

Not to get into a religious debate but it also said in the bible that God created every animal on the planet (one after the other) as a potential mate for Adam until out of spite for his pickyness then put Adam to sleep and made a clone of him from one of his ribs without a dick... and then the bible says no to bestiality.