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[2013-05-09 18:09:29] Temp: whoa, easy on the caps there

[2013-05-09 18:09:37] nothing wrong with caps comeon.

[2013-05-09 18:09:49] Temp, Please do not use caps like that.

[2013-05-09 18:09:54] WHY NOT

[2013-05-09 18:10:07] =-= Temp was booted from #tulpa.info by YoursTruly (Please obey moderator instructions)


From the rules: "Using coloured, bold, capitalized, or otherwise-styled text is allowed when it is done for emphasis or to make a point. However, it should not be used excessively as it stands out and generally causes disruption in the chat. Using coloured text for your tulpa's speech will be allowed on a per-case basis (for example if two of your tulpae have the exact same name)."

Looks like excessive to me.

But I don't care about that first instance, I care you keep insisting that it's fine.

You were warned. By two separate mods. Don't try to tell me you weren't warned.


As far as the attitude goes, I saw that it would be taken too seriously, so I added the last bit. Before you posted.


You think one line is excessive? Please, quit lying. Just admit that y'all mods "made a mistake."


I should be able to insist that it's fine, because IT'S NOT AGAINST THE RULES. READ THE RULES. And at the time capitalized wasn't even included in the rules. So not only was i not breaking the excessive part of the rule, there wasn't even anything mentioning caps.


Yes i was "warned" for breaking a non existent rule THIS SPECIFIC TIME, but this thread isn't just about this ONE SPECIFIC INSTANCE, it's about you mods in general. Over half the time you don't receive any verbal warning. Maybe i got one this time because i wasn't breaking an existing rule so even y'all decided that a kick without warning be a little extreme.


The "last part" wasn't on my screen before i posted, prolly didn't refresh before posting or whatever.

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You think one line is excessive? Please, quit lying. Just admit that y'all mods "made a mistake."



>is allowed when it is done for emphasis or to make a point.

>done for emphasis or to make a point



How I interpret that is emphasizing a part of a sentence, not just throwing caps on a whole line. Perhaps that needs to be clarified in the rules, I don't know, but it seemed obvious to me. What part of the sentence are you emphasizing if it's all bold? Then it's just a mess. But when you do it like THIS, it doesn't look like you just turned Caps Lock on.

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It's an IRC chat that moves fast. It was obviously a tip to someone, probably in a sea of other people helping and giving their own advice. For emphasis, the entire line was caps locked so they notice it and see what was important advice in this person's mind. They felt it should stand out and be written is all caps so people understand it's serious and important. You know, for emphasis.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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Sometimes you need to cause disruption to get attention.

Chloe - That cheerful girl with ponytail.

Aigis - The male cyborg that looks like raiden in MGR.

Vixen - Half dragon female who looks like Mary in DMC3 when in human form.

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You know what's way easier than arguing for 6 pages? Posting a good source that noboy has any business trying to disprove:



Research tells us that punishment is ineffective. Psychologists are in agreement that punishment does more harm than good. Thousands of studies and years of practice show what punishment does teach - fear, aggression and avoidance. People who are punished do not quickly learn to stop a behavior. What they quickly do learn is next time don't get caught, or let's just avoid the whole situation if at all possible.

However, in situations where punishment is used, changing the behavior is not usually our number one goal - taking care of some uncomfortable or unpleasant emotion generally is.

We punish in anger. We punish in frustration. We punish in an attempt to establish dominance. At the moment, changing the behavior is not the priority.

In order for non-aversive techniques to work, the environment inside the [forum/IRC] must be more desirable than the environment outside the [forum/IRC].

Tradition tells us that rules come with punishment, not rewards. Look at the rules in your classroom. Do you have rules, and then a list of what happens if you don't follow the rules? When was the last time you saw a list of rules and then a list of benefits that come to those who follow them.

Punishment is negatively reinforcing to the punisher.


That means that the actual act of punishment makes us, the punisher, feel better. Generally punishments are given out when someone under our control has gotten out of our control. A child breaks curfew, a student talks while we're giving instruction, our dog chews our favorite shoes, etc. We are angry. Angry is O.K. It is a natural, normal emotion. However, it is generally uncomfortable and an emotion most of us seek to get rid of sooner rather than later. So, punishment does that for us. When we punish, we feel an immediate decrease in the anger emotion - instant relief. And so, who has learned? The punisher has learned. The punisher has learned, next time I feel this way, just punish and I'll feel better. The punishee has learned, next time don't get caught, next time don't come, this is not a place I want to be.


It would have been more effective to send the guy a pm explaining why not to use caps. By that's just my opinion. What do I know?

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By that's just my opinion. What do I know?


Phi has spoken.

Case closed.



No, that's not sarcasm


"If this can be avoided, it should. If it can't, then it would be better if it could be. If it happened and you're thinking back to it, try and think back further. Try not to avoid it with your mind. If any of this is possible, it may be helpful. If not, it won't be."


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Phi I still love you and you're the best mod. I wanted you to be the admin.

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)

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I see a couple of problems with the premise of your argument, Phi. A. A kick is much more of a warning than a punishment B. Handling adults in a private space is much different from handling children in a school setting.


A kick is absolutely non-permanent; you can rejoin right afterwards. All we use it for is as a strong way of saying "seriously, that behavior isn't allowed." The only real punishment we give out are bans, and those serve a dual purpose. One is to remove a problem individual from the rest of the community; the reasoning behind that is self-explanatory. They are given out only when warnings have not proven effective.


Your source is speaking from the context of teaching students. The teacher's job is to make the student want to learn, and therefore want to be in school, hence the quote "the environment inside the classroom must be more desirable than the environment outside the classroom". But an IRC room is not a classroom. The moderators are not teachers and the users are not schoolchildren. It is a private space for discussion. If a person cannot abide by the rules and mature standard of conduct of that space, they can very well leave. That is how every other space in the real world operates where one's presence isn't mandatory. Certainly we want the room to be appealing. The difference is, we don't need it to be appealing to users that cause problems in the community by breaking rules.


As for your suggested method of explaining why not to disobey a rule. I feel like this is a necessary element of moderation, but isn't a go-to first response. When a person is disobeying the rules, the first responsibility of the moderator is to get them to stop. We do this by first warning, to let them know their behavior isn't acceptable. If they keep it up, we warn them again, possibly with a kick for emphasis. Now, for most people, it's common sense that rules are in place for a reason, and when an enforcer of those rules asks you to stop you should listen to them. If they don't understand the reasoning for a rule or the way it's enforced, we direct them to #tulpa.mods and try to explain for them. But repeatedly breaking the rule just because they don't agree with it isn't the proper course of action.


In the specific case of Temp, it's a little complicated. He was kicked because he kept posting caps after being asked to stop. He says it was accidental, but we don't know that, and we certainly didn't know that when he was kicked. At the time it just looked sarcastic and defiant. However, had he managed to post "why not?" properly the situation would have been different and he would have been directed to #tulpa.mods without a kick.


When a user is on the brink of being banned for a while, I could see a place for sitting them down and explaining why their behavior is consistently harmful and out of line. At this point it's clear the user lacks the understanding or common sense to respect the rules and it would be reasonable to give them one last chance to shape up before being removed from the community. However, we really shouldn't need to do this for every user.


I understand there are some legitimate complaints about the moderation and there are some potential changes that could be made as mentioned above, however I really don't think that literally babying people is the way to go.

Astral project on my face, brother!

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I'm not taking sides on this, I just felt like it would be a good thing to post. However, I will say this: The source I linked to can be applied to more than just a classroom. I understand that mods aren't exactly teaching users chemistry. However, the mods are in a position that makes them responsible for keeping the forums as safe, enjoyable, and as educational as possible. You may be right in saying that the source isn't directly related to the site, but it can definitely be applied to it. The forums are similar to a classroom because the users (students) come here to learn about how to force a tulpa, as well as what happens after the tulpa is imposed and vocal, or whatever term you use for "complete" now. The mods are like teachers in that you are supposed to keep the forums (classroom) a safe learning environment. Indeed, if you kick someone too often when you could be doing something else to stop the behaviour, no one would blame them for quitting. I don't think it's happened yet, but a bad mod could make a good many users quit for no reason other than "I hate the mods". You might think that's stupid, but how many people have you seen that hate school because "the teachers are mean"?


I have no idea what happened here, and I won't take a side. I'm just saying is all. I'm also sorry if something in this post is incoherent, I'm too tired for this right now.

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