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[Sands]

But I notice Sands describes Roswell as imaginary...

 

Oh right tuppers aren't imaginary, thanks for telling me master tulpaforcer.

 

 

When Sands says that Roswell is real...

 

"Real" is one of those words that is hard to use here. What is "real" is the question. Is "physical" what people mean when saying "real"? If so, then no, tuppers aren't real. They aren't physical. But what else could "real" mean here? If someone asks me if it's possible to have a tupper who is seemingly independent of you and acts like a sapient creature, then sure, if that's what makes a tupper "real", then they are real. Written this so many times in different ways on these forums already, starting to feel like a broken record but I guess you missed the memo. Lurk more, past discussions were some great stuff too.

 

Oh and shapeshifter tuppers? It's your fucking imagination man. I can change my shape in my imagination. A tupper isn't anything different. Fucking worst example there. Different thing is if you would have all those forms imposed after imposing one, which I don't think anyone has tried and as such, we don't exactly know how it is.

 

 

For a community that is all about using one's brain, very little of that is being done here. Stagnating community where we must pretend to believe in others when we don't just so they don't cry, only inviting more and more people who notice that they can get all the attention they want by writing ridiculous shit while never being called out. At some point, when problems with you and your tupper appeared, instead of trying to find out why with the tulpa in question, people ask the forums or the IRC channels. Without ever talking to the tupper about the problem together. Just straight in with strangers to cry about something no one but you can do something about.

 

And the newcomers especially must understand that not everyone they're talking to is telling the truth. It is one thing to believe you don't have a tupper than just lying you do while you know you don't. Use your brain. If something doesn't feel right, then there's no reason for you to think it is. Mods can always warn you and ban you for not being the perfect little cog in their hugbox machine, but I will welcome you with open arms if you can be skeptical. You are what .info needs.

[Linkzelda]

Man Sands. You're just begging to want someone to call a person out, guess I'll give this a go. You will welcome anyone with open arms if they can be skeptical right? Be very careful of what you wish for. Hopefully your eyes won't bleed out, hopefully you can use your brain in reading this, but I guess that's not my problem now is it?

 

You do know you're going through self-stultifying yourself with this "attention," "attention," "attention" bullshit right? You're the biggest attention-whore on this forum when you make militant schemes to pick out who's fake or real. Now, even if you get a list of who's fake and who's real on your McCarthy list, what use does that have with people who want to theorize and associate scientific conceptual schemes, and so to actually elevate this forum's communal competence more? Your whole strives in general with this is like comedy hour to me, and I'm sure this is the same for others after they've gotten used to you.

 

You do know that while you're having certain emotions towards people who express themselves on this forum, people don't usually call YOU out because either:

- They don't give two shits about your Emotivism because it has little value in terms of getting people to use their heads for practical discussion rather than one saturated with your insecurities with RPers, "real" tuppers, and so on.

 

- You're like the little child that considers himself a candidate for practical discussion on a tulpa forum like this when he goes through nostalgia stacked on with emotions on the good ol' days on tulpa.info more than Lady Gaga's fashion trends that you're actually stagnating the potential the community has in general. In short, your existence overall is a detriment on the forum itself. You feel as if you're some stabilizing agent with going on these brigades on picking on who's fake or who's real. Although to some extent this would be useful in convincing people they need to do this for the long-term, you're just going back to trivial and petty bullshit that makes me wonder if you should quit going to this forum altogether because you're tired of the ad nasaeums that seem to be going towards ad infinitum that is driving you mad the more you exist on this forum. Just because you've been through it all or seen common topics repeated, doesn't mean you go through a series of cognitive biases with being pissed/angry/filled with butthurt emotions (plot twist, I have to use this format just to give an analysis on you in general!)

 

-You're actually making yourself the epitome of a person going through delusions of grandeur so much, it makes me fucking sick of your overall demeanor towards people here. "Talk to your tulpa?" "Use your Brain?" Your deductions skills are definitely as revolutionary in thinking since sliced bread (sarcasm). But I'll discuss this later on with how your Captain Obvious way of thinking is just as naive as these RPers you try to pick out.

 

- You've been in the forum long enough to see ad nasaeums in what's been stated in different ways, so you're mostly annoyed by that, because you either:

 

---> Assume everyone should be at your level of thinking, but you can't possibly think that, so while you're disheartened that people are repeating things you've seen, it's hard for you to engage in non-cognitivism and practical empathy that some people come in without using their heads initially, and eventually they either wise up or become trapped in their own incompetence to actually do something about it.

 

---> You're incompetent to be aware that people have some potential to be as useful and informative in how we theorize this whole tulpa phenomenon for the sake of Science. And because of your incompetence to be able to do any change, even though you still continually try, you're at a deadlock.

 

---> You think you've got things made with your real tupper, when there's always room for improvement in the idiosyncrasies in your brain, same goes for me and every single member on this forum. I won't be directing towards your tulpa, since after all, I can only give you the benefit of the doubt with his existence in general (just as you would do with anyone who claims to have a thought-form).

 

At some point' date=' when problems with you and your tupper appeared, instead of trying to find out why with the tulpa in question, people ask the forums or the IRC channels. Without ever talking to the tupper about the problem together. Just straight in with strangers to cry about something no one but you can do something about.[/quote']

 

This is the part with I take my crazy pills to cope with this madness you're giving me. And my eventual subscription of quietism for the lulz.

 

Listen Sands, I understand that talking things out with your tupper/tulpa/thought-form/brain-friend seems practical in terms of just solving things together and the whole "let's treat them as sentient and sapient beings." But that doesn't mean the person and the host in general has an overwhelming database of knowledge that's perfect and adaptable to every given situation with the problems that comes before them. Just because one talks out with their tulpa (which is actually just going through open mode with the unconscious mind), it doesn't mean it will solve everything. Especially when incompetent host expect their incompetent tulpa to actually solve EVERY THING.

 

Your logic is so bullshit that is stacks on to your self-stultifying posts in this forum in general. There's a reason why people pool ideas and concepts from others. It's just basic logic with us as human beings that are gregarious individuals at heart, and the same can be applied with tulpa trying to gain insight from others. Although there are some things that are easily solved with simple logic, some things are a bit too deep and difficult that there has to be some group thinking involved. There's a limit to a person's own competence in things, they need to actually develop some experiential learning from others and other sources of information and mediums the read/listen/process information from.

 

Although the actual communal competence doesn't seem to be favorable in people going back-and-forth with their own conceptual schemes, belief systems and so on while also considering other people's conceptual schemes, belief systems and so on, doesn't mean there aren't people attempting to give reasonable opinions that doesn't stagnate overall knowledge accumulating in this forum.

 

When you're so naive into thinking that a newcomer who is trying to create a sentient and sapient thought-form, and hopefully train their vocalization skills better so they can break the confusion and doubt that comes with interpreting non-linguistic language, you have to realize they haven't reached your "pinnacle" with a vocal tulpa.

 

How in the fucking hell do you expect people to talk to their tulpa when the tulpa hasn't gain competence in being vocal to the point that there can be consistent communication amongst the host and the tulpa? See your logic here Sands? Epitome of going through cognitive bias (we all have go through bias obviously, but you're just expressing it way too much).

 

If you and your tulpa can talk things out and solve things out, more power to you Sands! But people don't have that luxury you've achieved with having a fragment of your mind in general giving a second opinion.

 

For once, can you engage in non-cognitivism and actually see what this forum has potential in....Can you for once not go through this petty and trivial McCarthyism on who's fake and who's "real?"....Can you just for fucking sake just shut down (or at least reduce it tremendously) your whole ambitions on your brigades with who's using their brain and who's not?

 

We all make mistakes in this, we are not perfect, and even in interacting with our tulpa to solve things out isn't perfect. The types of solutions you're talking about that can be discussed about with the tulpa are simple things (common sense where the host can have a tulpa that guides them in the right direction in case the host is confused with emotion)

The irony of it all is that while you state how there aren't some people using their brains, you thinking that talking with your tulpa like it's some deux ex machina in solving deeper and more philosophical problems is just ignorance. There's a point where the host themselves has to see solutions from others and gain information through other means where there was some gregarious activity that occurred, so that it stacks onto their experiential knowledge and totality of belief systems, conceptual schemes, etc.

 

These people cry because we were all at the position where we were clustered with feelings of confusion. But once you've made the breakthrough with your tulpa Roswell, you don't really need to worry much about that confusion, so it's easy for you go through cognitive bias that people just need to talk to their tulpa when they're still in the "Gray area" with consistent mind-voice or even auditory imposition with their tulpa.

 

You disgust me with your incompetence Sands. Use your brain for once before you say others should use theirs. Seriously. Please do some good in this community and realize even basic interaction and communication with your tulpa has its limits. It's a back and forth motion with outward interaction with people and inward interaction with oneself.

Everyone needs some insight from others at some point, and just because you think you've been through it all, you've only scratched the surface in the potential this tulpa phenomenon has towards others. So if you want to only promote the idea of being resourceful with your tulpa and not gain insight from others as a supplement (because you think ANY fucking discussion is going to be ridiculous in your model of reality), you're the epitome of someone who doesn't acknowledge that people have to be able to acknowledge their shortcomings through social interactions with others (along with their tulpa) to solve a situation. There's competence in being aware of these shortcomings through inward focus or outward focus or a mix of both.

_____________________________________________________________________________

As for your mentioning of "real" being hard to discuss about in this forum, it's hard because there are many approaches to theorize real with this. There's applications of realism in existence and of independence, and the methods and beliefs we can utilize to make theories and such are (but not limited to):

 

- Non-cognitivism

- Epistemology

- Temporal Logic

- Expressivism

- And many branches of philosophy that pertains to quantifying, analyzing, and interpreting realism, reality, and existence in general.

 

The main concern that people are trying to make a breakthrough with is the "Independence" aspect when discussion "Real." And by that, the type of independence where the tulpa can be independent from conscious input, judging, analysis, etc. from the host's end, and the tulpa is more intuitive and engaging with the unconscious mind.

This is contrast to people that instill the idea that tulpa can be cut off completely from the mind in general or give some higher implication of being a separate state of consciousness. Now, this is the part we don't need to deal with, since that causes contradicting logic with consciousness in general. The type of "real" or seeing a tulpa being "real" through their independence from our conscious thoughts, analysis, judging, etc. is what the majority of this forum is trying to aim for.

 

We apply temporal logic (worldly applications with existential concepts to humanize the tulpa), but because there's little evidence, or little chance to have evidence to show how what is real in the "real" I mentioned above, we can't really make reasonable deductions on this because it's something a person has to do on their own. They have to develop the experiential truth on their own, however, there are existential concepts with the tulpa phenomenon, the most apparent being Possession and/or Switching where there's a probability of seeing the fragment of the unconscious mind that becomes molded into a thought-form that gains sentience and sapience become "real" in terms of temporal and secular logic.

 

Which is why when you stifle people's intentions for social interactions (your bullshit logic with talking with your tulpa as the only practical means for resolving things) for group thinking to find methods to hopefully gain substantial evidence with what the unconscious can do in general with thought-form, it's what stagnates progress from this forum.

 

Because people will have you on their mind when they attempt to give some explanation on the things they were pondering and contemplating about. You may not think you have some effect in what people say, but you actually do. Maybe you realize that, but I can't make inferences based on conjecture, only you can come up with that realization.

 

The whole aim of this forum, or at least what everyone is leaning towards more is seeing the tulpa become independent from our conscious thoughts (but obviously not unconscious thoughts since they are part of us in general). And combine that with the existential schemes, concepts, etc. that we apply that are indicators (but not absolute) in a tulpa that can be sentient and sapient and independent from the conscious mind, this is how the community tries to make the concept of tulpa "real."

 

Not the physical real, just abstract thinking laced with existential parameters and concepts. Now, if you stifle that potential for people with "talking with their tulpas," it's no fucking wonder there's no progress. You're just one of many people that stifle that chance for practical discussion, and while you're stifling that chance, it gives you more time to find out who's attentionwhoring and who's fake and who's real.

 

Biggest attenionwhore on this forum and doesn't even realize that! There should be a trophy for you on this.

 

Good job Sands, hope you have a good heart-to-heart discussion with your tulpa to hopefully come to that realization. Your logic with this is admirable in terms of solving common problems, but negligible at best when it comes to deeper and more thought-provoking concepts and ideas that can be better interpreted and theorized through gregarious means.

 

You are what tulpa.info doesn't need, unless of course, you become competent in realizing your own incompetence and start making better strives for progressive improvement with yourself and the thought-form you engage with. When I say that, I simply mean just be intelligent enough to realize your own faults and find ways to improve on them, and don't stifle people's opportunity to become more intelligent through outward and inward means.

 

You have so much potential in being a better member on this forum when you filter out the trivial and petty thrills you get with who's attentionwhoring, RPers, or "real" tuppers.

But until then, I'm never going to take anything you say seriously. I don't need my tulpa to make these deductions about you, I don't need to use my tulpa for solving every single fucking problem/situation in my head. I only ask for their opinions on things that are more thought-provoking and involves being receptive to more ideas. But when it comes to implementing the decisions made from that open mode of thinking (with or without the tulpa), I can solve it all by producing it by myself or hopefully in the future, allow my tulpa to increase their problem-solving skills through switching and/or possession.

 

And with a closing statement,

 

"No man is an island, Entire of itself, Every man is a piece of the continent." - John Donne

 

Hopefully you use your brain to see how that ties into the whole purpose of having this forum in general, or any threads/sites/forums aimed for explaining and theorizing the tulpa phenomenon. I HOPE you can make deductions on that without your fucking tulpa. You're a disgrace to your own tulpa when you can't even demonstrate that there are things you can do on your own without having to get them to spoon-feed everything to you.

 

Learn how to be resourceful in all aspects: Individually, Interaction with thought-forms, interaction with other people's thought-forms, and interaction with people in general, and so on.

 

If people can do this, maybe...JUST MAYBE, we can take each other seriously and have a bit more of a scholarly and scientific atmosphere that is ALSO open-mind in other things for healthy discussion, occasional jest, and overall betterment in adding some communal knowledge in this forum.

[Guest MegaBusta]

tl;dr?

[DarthNikolai]

tl;dr?

 

People are being douchebags to each other. Essentially, he/she is trying to make a case about why Sands is an asshole and that he has mental issues.

 

To be honest, I didn't read all of it myself it doesn't require a novel to insult someone. Paraphrase, for length =/= credibility.

[Sands]

Well, first of all Linkzelda, I'll start that while you usually tend to have your points, you tend to drag it on for so long you keep going in circles that I suggest you really, really plan what you want to write instead of just starting to write it. You can write what you say in less words and have a much better point that isn't all over the place. My writing tips for you, others have told you the same before and you haven't agreed with them so I guess you won't agree with me here, either. But, with what you got up there, I couldn't possibly answer to all your key points or questions. So if I didn't answer to something you wanted to know, just point it out to me and I'll go back, yeah?

 

Can people call me an attentionwhore? Sure, if you feel that way. When I want equality and want to hear your opinions, I mean it. I'm not above the law. Do I feel that I want the attention to myself? No, and that's kinda why I'm annoyed how this thread suddenly became the Sands thread, because this isn't a thread about me. When I am most vocal in this community and in your eyes an attentionwhore I guess, is when I want to bring attention to the problems we have. This community is one that keeps ignoring its problems. The mods especially. Because no one cared, those few of us who did would have to scream our lungs out to make others pay attention to them. The problems don't go away by ignoring them. They're still there.

 

Nostalgia? It's a thing, sure. But why do you think so many are saying that the .info of today is shit? Of course there is some nostalgia and there's that even in my case, but I'd say I'm coming from a different angle. Do you know why we are sad that the days are past? Because there was something in there that we are lacking now. Why many - myself included - are so disgusted in this community and do all kinds of crazy shit to try to get people to listen is because we believed in this place. I really did, I saw it and there was just so much potential. I saw some progress so it's not like older is always better, and I really hoped we could do this and become something beautiful. But it didn't happen. There was so much potential that is almost gone right now. And that saddens me. That's why we are so vocal, because this was a community we loved and hell, guess we still do when we still try to do something to it. So many left and stopped trying to help the community, saying it was a lost cause. Would I still be here if I thought absolutely nothing could be done?

 

Talk to your tulpa about it, use your brain, it's you imagination. All answers that could answer so many questions on these forums. Of course you're going all "well what if the tupper can't talk!" in which case duh, it's not a problem you can solve by talking. I guess I was talking more about the relationship problems like "why does my tulpa hate me" and such. Which you know, you shouldn't ask us strangers about. You should ask your tulpa. Why do I tell people to use their brain? If a person as dense as me can find answers, everyone can. They can't be intimidated by it and think a forum on an internet will be able to solve all their problems for them. Talking to your tupper won't solve anything and it won't always be pretty, but doing so when possible is a much better attempt at solving the problem than asking us and then doing nothing with it except talk some more on IRC. Many have tupper problems they whore for attention in these communities just for the sake of attention, and you should open your eyes if you can't see that.

 

All of us were new once. Nothing bad with that. All of us have questions and there's nothing wrong with that, either. But start by doing research first, like we did. That's how we were saved from many identical threads asking for the same questions. Making a tulpa is something that's unique for everyone and there's no way you will do it if you only try asking others for help. It's your personal journey you absolutely must learn to do on your own or you're screwed.

 

It's funny how often I get a finger pointed at me going all "you call people roleplayers!" and well yeah, I do. But perhaps you might want to read what I say a bit more closely. There's been lists about roleplayers in the past. I never made those. I have very rarely pointed a finger at any particular person and said you know what, you are a roleplayer. I do say that we have roleplayers, because we do. This entire thread was started because someone admitted to doing it. I also tell people to stop some of their shit because it makes them look like a roleplayer, which would make others accuse them of being such and I'm there trying to stop it from happening before it does. And honestly, *does something* is roleplaying. Maybe not the kind of roleplaying that you are roleplaying you have a tulpa, but it is roleplaying. In which case I am not wrong saying that someone should stop roleplaying on forums that aren't about roleplaying.

 

Some of your points I couldn't see, as you seem to think I am saying more than I think I am. Can't blame anyone but myself for writing it in a shitty way I guess, but I just can't see your point if that happens.

 

These forums had potential. I see the people trying to dig that potential out as great people and I am happy to see that there are some new ones coming after so many great ones left. But it is a losing battle. Telling people to use the search function or really think about something themselves is far from hurting a community that tried to be scientific. When you drive those people away, you're attracting the kind who wants to roleplay and post all their problems online for everyone to see for pity parties. That is hurting the community.

 

Because hey, you know, when you can't make a post about someone admitting they lied on a forum, you know something is pretty fucking wrong. Also I'm too lazy to read this thing for typos and such so whoops sorry. But tl;dr, we're doing this out of love and there is nothing wrong with being skeptical, also this isn't a thread about me but I do mean it when I say I want you to say your fucking opinions, even if they're against me. Also I doubt that you exactly got my point on a lot of shit I have said but I can't blame you for that because my writing skills loldunno.

 

edit: I said I wouldn't touch typos, but I saw one and corrected it, help

[Shui]

You know, I actually agree with you on some of this. I do think your post on Asquerade's topic was exactly what needed to be said. But I really don't think this community is as horrible as you make it out to be. It seems almost like you feel a responsibility to answer absolutely every question -- a task which you seem to personally despise. All I'm saying is back down a bit. Let things take care of themselves. I think you'll be surprised how well things go.

[Sands]

In case you missed, there was a time when I was very quiet for a pretty long time. Actually not sure if you were registered then so I guess that would make sense. Nothing went in a better direction. This is try... I don't even know how big of a number it is now. But don't worry, one day I'll be gone permanently too. So many already did it and we're growing tired of this.

 

Maybe I'm a masochist hanging out with masochists, but we have a habit of digging out the worst of the worst. Maybe that affects how I see things, but really, this wasn't as bad as it used to be. Sure someone will scream nostalgiafag at me right now, but I saw it with my own eyes. And that makes all this so much worse. I don't have much faith that there's many who would change this place into a better place, but luckily I have seen some and I wish them the best of luck. But I'm not sure if it's enough and all that.

[Linkzelda]

How cute, you've resorted to a person's typos and formatting and aiming to use a strawman to get out of this. This is where you know the person doesn't know what the hell to say anymore.

 

Here's the part that bothers me a bit, what are the exceptions that would make you presume that you're not only roleplaying yourself and that you have a genuine tulpa? What are the determining factors that makes you an exception? How do you instill a belief that a person is roleplaying compared to the interactions you have being genuine and meets having a real tulpa? How do you differentiate your experiences with seeing Roswell when you've seen him interact more while you just had to be aware of watching him? It's just exponential worrying people will impose on you the more you revel in the past. That's why you should tone down the nostalgia a bit, maybe a little more. Just a tad.

 

Also, I didn't say using other people's ideas and concepts as the only means of solving things with whatever problem that comes with the tulpa and host.

Learn how to be resourceful in all aspects: Individually, Interaction with thought-forms, interaction with other people's thought-forms, and interaction with people in general, and so on.

 

But of course, you most likely didn't read that. I even clearly stated there's some things that don't require much insight from others, there are some things where group thinking would help (to some extent), and things one can do with their tulpa.

 

Your idea of tough love is not working (because the idiots won't listen to you) and I already understand the underlying meanings behind your posts, and again, all for the sake of people knowing their own faults and finding ways to get out of it before they start getting paranoid. And I'm perfectly aware of people who role played in the past, and if you have time to focus on who's real and who's fake in the past, you would have more time to know there's going to be a point where there's going to be a stream of people to deal with that problem and change it.

 

And yes, I'm aware of people who say "tl;dr" and that I need to "paraphrase", this isn't the only forum I've been a part of that said that, there's times to be concise and times to be more than that. Trust me, these tl;dr require little effort on my end and I can easily make more concise posts, but the majority of people don't get the ideas drilled in their head from me being concise.

 

I'm not sure if you saw what I typed at the end with you having more potential than most people on this forum if you can just filter out the things that occurred in the past and not let them override the potential you have in contributing some change (whether you think you tried or not). I am in full agreement with what's occurred in the past and I'm more than willing to work with you and other members to prevent people from recreating it. With any forum that has a constant stream of questions, obviously there's people who've been in a certain forum that will get tired of the repetition, I've been just as annoyed as you must've been with this.

 

We simply tolerate these people wanting attention that roleplay and assume they have a fully sentient, sapient, and vocal tulpa from day one by not feeding them the attention they want.

[Sands]

How cute, you've resorted to a person's typos and formatting and aiming to use a strawman to get out of this. This is where you know the person doesn't know what the hell to say anymore.

 

What?

[DarthNikolai]

 

What?

 

My guess is he/she only read the last line