possible decline of tulpamancing

[tulpamancer31]

does anyone else feel like there will be a possilbe decline of interest in tulpamancing with the advancement of artificial intelligence and virtual reality devices?

 

do you think aspiring people will find the latter more worth it due to being easier and (possibly) more rewarding?

[Dav_Edward]

Dav: I wouldn't think so. With these new technologies they're basing some types of AI on neural networks (see Google DeepDream, PlayFun, Sethbling Mar.IO, IBM Watson, etc.)

 

Also with virtual reality devices becoming popular, so are EEG and other non-invasive brain to machine interfaces. I hope to live long enough to see if my tulpa can one day mentally control devices parallel to myself. Just imagine, a tulpa able to communicate with the outside world with a mechanical body.

 

For the present I'd love to get a hold of a simple EEG headset like the emotional controlled cat ears that are popular with cosplayers right now, but a bit more advanced to use as a non-phyical input device for a computer and see what Solaria (my tulpa) can accomplish.

[WizardMassacre]

Artificial intelligence is nowhere near the level where people would rather talk to it than other people. It can make intelligent conversation, but that's pretty much it. Virtual reality hasn't come very far either, in my knowledge.

 

Tulpae have a real connection to people, not a superficial one. They talk and often act like real people, so I imagine that they would be the first choice for most people who research this sort of stuff. And besides, tulpae are free, and I'm pretty sure AI and virtual reality would cost a fortune.

[Elvode]

AI and virtual reality is kind of cool and all but it's never gonna be the same as a tulpa in my opinion.

[sushi]

Artificial intelligence is a long way away from tulpas. I'd say that eventually, when we're on the ST:TNG level of artificial intelligence, sure, tulpas will most likely be a thing of the past. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime though.

[Akecalo]

It is possible that the current trend for tulpamancy will decline very much before AI becomes more of a thing than it is now. Ok, there is AI that has passed the Turing test, and AI that has passed a self awareness test, but it is still a long way away from acheiving the same kind of relationship possibilities that you can have with a tulpa. Having said that, the current popularity of the the Tulpa phenomenon may already be on the wane.

 

Having observed the community for the time that I have, I see a lot of drama and destructive interactions which have an end result of bans, and general ill feeling in the community. I also see a lot of people who seem to like the idea of having a tulpa, begin to follow the guides, decide that it is too hard and "do whatever" then complain that they have no progress and "start over". This may be an indication that the attitude towards the existence of a tulpa may be changing more towards the casual imaginary friend end of the spectrum, towards being treated as something that can be easily discarded when it becomes inconvenient, rather than as a valued lifelong companion as the earlier contributors to this site seemed to believe.

 

It is possible that this shift in approach may be a sign that the original concept of the (modern) tulpa, is in the process of being replaced by a concept that is more like tulpa-lite, and this seems as if it could be a stage on the way to the fading out or breaking up of the tulpa community as we know it at present. At least, it seems that way sometimes, when I feel that I am in a pessimistic mood. It could be that before long, only those of us who were doing this before it was a thing will be left.

 

On the other hand, it could easily not mean anything of the kind. It could be that these observations are of traits that any reasonably large community composed of disparate individuals will develop over time and that none of this will be in any way harmful to the community or the concept of the modern tulpa. Who knows, it could even result in a shift in attitides that help the practice for all I know. And after all, any change in method that works has to be pioneered by somebody.

 

I think that for a community to thrive, it needs to be supportive of the members of that community, particularly of those who are having trouble. I see that this supportive role (or at least an advisory one) was one of the stated purposes of this site when it was conceived, and I am glad. I see support being given by particular members here and am glad. There could be hope.

 

When we found this place we were overjoyed that we had found others like us, that we were no longer in isolation. A tulpa of mine has made some good friends here and to a certain extent, I think that I have too. We hope that this place is here for a long time to come.

 

As far as AI replacing the tulpa is concerned, it will be a little while before neural interfaces exist that allow your AI to sex you on the bus like a pony tulpa can, so we may have a while yet :) . Basic forms of that interface do exist however, so it is a matter of time :) .

 

[Maya: This response is a product of the "consciousness" of Akecalo, the rest of us in here take no responsibility for anything he has said.]

[Guest Anonymous]

@Akecalo

 

I see tulpas (or any headmate) as distinctly different from AI and virtual reality. One is internal and the other external. AI cannot replace a tulpa at all, because it is external, just like interacting with another person outside of yourself.

 

Unless, you are referring to using an "alternate personality" (like wearing a mask and role playing) on the internet. In that case, virtual reality will some day make the alternate avatars appear incredibly real. Artificially intelligent minds with virtual reality avatars would also be incredibly life like. Neither of these examples are a tulpa though.

 

As for the "decline" of the community from more pure beginnings, I think it is only growing and changing in positive ways. The tulpa community is becoming more diverse and interesting as it branches out and finds links to other groups doing something similar (daemons, soulbonds, natural multiples and others). As for "tulpa-lites" I am not sure that is a negative thing. The concept of a tulpa is a subjective experience for those who create them. The host creates the tulpa that works for them. A lighter approach to tulpamancy does not mean the decline of tulpamancy, merely it's natural evolution and the beginnings of a wider appeal.

 

The older members from the early days are still there and there will always be newer people who follow tulpamancy to the letter of the "old school." I don't think the community will disappear. It will just get more interesting over time. Since Tulpa Info is a scientific based forum, it will only be beneficial to explore the concept of thoughtforms more broadly than just a narrow focus on tulpas only.

[Akecalo]

@Akecalo

 

I see tulpas (or any headmate) as distinctly different from AI and virtual reality. One is internal and the other external. AI cannot replace a tulpa at all, because it is external, just like interacting with another person outside of yourself.

 

I'm sorry. I had intended the tulpa replacement paragraph to add a bit of levity to a post otherwise sadly lacking in that property, rather than as a serious prediction that AI and VR would eventually replace the tulpa. I added a few smileys in a sadly ineffective attempt to convey humour, but obviously I failed to communicate my intention. It was supposed to be a deliberately absurd statement that would amuse and by the absurdity of the prediction imply that the tulpa would not be replaced by AI. I apologise for my unfortunate lack of communication skills today.

 

As far as the impossiblity of the replacement of a tulpa using technological means is concerned, I agree completely. A headmate of any kind is a deeply personal and internal experience, as you point out and interacting with them is a different process to that which is undertaken in communication with an external entity, whether AI or not.

 

Unless, you are referring to using an "alternate personality" (like wearing a mask and role playing) on the internet. In that case, virtual reality will some day make the alternate avatars appear incredibly real. Artificially intelligent minds with virtual reality avatars would also be incredibly life like. Neither of these examples are a tulpa though.

 

I agree that VR will help these things immensely. I have been a member of some online communities that use customisable avatars in a virtual environment for self expression, and have seen people express themselves in ways (and to a degree) that would not have been possible through an earlier medium of communication. These are tools for communication that I feel privileged to have experienced, and I feel honoured to have experience the expression of the inner selves of the people I met through that medium. Virtual reality would potentially provide for a medium of communication wherein the AI and the human are on an equal footing, differences in physical nature would be able to take a back seat, and the interaction could take place without the obstacle of the knowlege of that difference. I find that tremendously interesting.

 

As for the "decline" of the community from more pure beginnings, I think it is only growing and changing in positive ways. The tulpa community is becoming more diverse and interesting as it branches out and finds links to other groups doing something similar (daemons, soulbonds, natural multiples and others). As for "tulpa-lites" I am not sure that is a negative thing. The concept of a tulpa is a subjective experience for those who create them. The host creates the tulpa that works for them. A lighter approach to tulpamancy does not mean the decline of tulpamancy, merely it's natural evolution and the beginnings of a wider appeal.

 

The older members from the early days are still there and there will always be newer people who follow tulpamancy to the letter of the "old school." I don't think the community will disappear. It will just get more interesting over time. Since Tulpa Info is a scientific based forum, it will only be beneficial to explore the concept of thoughtforms more broadly than just a narrow focus on tulpas only.

 

You make exceedingly good points. The point I was trying to convey when I noted the destructive interactions concerned threads that I have seen here, but especially in other parts of the community that are external to this site in which flame wars were provoked by someone expressing a different opinion about the nature of a tulpa, or even different take on the process of producing a tulpa. Some of those threads were fairly vicious. I referred to this as destructive, because if one is to approach this subject matter from a scientific standpoint, differing ideas should be welcomed and tested, rather than result in an immediate flame wars, leading to bad feeling in the community, and bans, leaving those who could otherwise have contributed something valuable possibly ejected from the community. This is why I noted that any changes in method (or ideas) need to be pioneered by somebody. If we reject those who are potentially pioneering something new, we will not improve the state of things.

 

You bring up a good point about the similarites between different classifications of headmates and the possibility of forging links to these other communities is one that I find fascinating. I would like to see more discussion of that here, but I get the impression that it would be deemed off topic. Perhaps that impression is erroneous though. If so, I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick.

 

My tulpa-lite comment was not expressed very well. I had seen a number of people attempt tulpa creation, and get caught up in the difficulty of it, then lose direction with the result that they end up with something that to them is not a proper tulpa. Those people then became despondent, and abandoned the tulpa either to leave forever or to start another tulpa which ended up suffering similar problems. This can cause a loss of motivation and people either ended up with something that wasn't what they thought a tulpa should be or left the community. If a tulpa is to be acheived, constant discarding and restarting along with the potential associated stress that people seem to experience in that situation seems counterproductive to the process. For the community to last, someone in that position needs support form the community so that members are not lost from the community in this way.

 

It seems possible that the current "fashion" for the tulpa may wane at some point, and when it does we will need to keep the members of the community that do come in rather than lose them.

 

I think that I didn't really get my points across adequately in my previous post, I should really refrain from posting from the pits of depression - it comes out wrong. Or at least be very, very careful when I do.

 

Thank you for your positive take on the future of the community, you are an inspiration. I am glad that you see a community that is evolving and developing in a positive direction, rather than one in decline. You have increased my level of hope.

[Bambi]

First off, I don't know much about artificial intelligence or virtual reality, but I do know that human beings have a tendency to want human interaction. As a species, humans are a very communicative bunch, and they need to talk to people in order to not be, y'know, lonely.

 

If technology ever gets to the point in the future where robots are practically humans, then of course there people will be fascinated, and some might even really like talking to robots and having "robot friends." There's nothing wrong with that. The thing is, though, is that most people are going to know the difference between a living, breathing human and a robot.

 

So . . . what tulpa are in the ways of species is pretty darn subjective, I admit. Some like to refer to themselves as humans and others don't, and that's fine. Some aren't human because they're a Pokemon or a dog or whatever, and others--like me, for example--are just as human as our creators (or at least we are in the heart kinda stuff). If communication is the end-game, then more open-minded and curious individuals are far more likely to go for a tulpa rather than a robot (or AI or virtual reality or whatever the crap).

 

Now, we do have to realize that tulpamancing isn't popular in the first place. However, it's slowly (and I mean very slowly here) getting more publicity, at least on the Internet, and I can't think of why it wouldn't be increasing. The more people know about it, the more tulpa will be made. That much is obvious.

 

But . . . the concept of tulpa is still pretty weird for you humans who have never thought of something like us existing or being possible or whatever. It's not like people are just going to come flocking over to it at any given time just because.

[Adamaï]

I think when AI really is developed far, most people will tend to this side than tulpae. But there is just always the person who wants it a little more realistic and stumble across this site. And there will also be this person who made a tulpa (by accident or just for talking) and joins him here. And the next one gets fascinated about the stuff they are discussing and joins him etc. Most things just don't die off because something new hits the market. I think for most people tulpae are something special, not like a game or book you put to the side to get something new. Because of this, our community will last as long as we are free to use the internet as we want to (at least that is what I think).