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heyo. This thread here will be kind of general. I made a thread here awhile back at with an attempt. Awhile back being a few years. I’ll have to reread it, though suffice to say, I seem to remember that I probably messed up because my imagination had the thing doing repetitive actions like drinking. To me, that’s how meditation works, and this is basically the same thing. My mind is generally quiet, but you do something like try and force a tulpa all day, you get what philosophers on meditation call the monkey mind and imagine something you wouldn’t want, like messing up your own creation. By having it drinking. Uh.... I mean, I guess itd be fine if it was a drinker, but it was more just a random thought become repetitive. Actually, my mind is, well, I have decent mental health when I am living my life as I’d like to. Basically, I like to go to spiritual things, so I do that and I’m good. Just to get that out of the way. But, the above how my attempt failed when I tried. Anyway, about me. I’ve been spiritual since about age 13. I was afraid of death at 12, and I got a way going forward and started researching. Part of it was a search for truth though I don’t know whether I found that. Anyway, I made contact at 27, and I don’t appear to fit the schizophrenia DSM. Anymore than a lot of occultists would. Actually, I cant see or hear the spirits, if that’s what they are. It’s physical perception. Can feel if they’re on (or worse) or in me. My third eye on my forehead responds as well. Kind of a vibration or a hollowing in my brow center. Other people can see them, if I got one on me and they got the sight, even if am not giving them money. Anyway, I really don’t recommend just making contact like I did. I got very little in return for my efforts. It was mostly horrible, still is horrifying. Anyway, another magician helped me out, and I also leave offerings to Hekate who I was sworn to and a spirit healed me, possibly her dunno, his wife works with her, some people think I made contact and it was her, most people Who don’t know me are naysayers, dunno, but anyway I mostly got better, the spirits seemed to lost ability to get in or on me, leave me alone mostly. But, I still get a visitor on occasion, and it gets off me on command, but I don’t like that shit. Also, maybe a tulpa could also serve a... occult purpose. Self defense. Or Like the astral body you know. then I could astral project. Uh... people usually make a thoughtform rather than a tulpa for defense but whatever , thought forms for defense, they can rebel, your guys tulpa don’t seem to rebel so much. You all switch conciousness with tulpa. But then you don’t seem to end up exploring the astral realm from what I remember here. Makes no sense to me. But then maybe you never read a book on the subject. But, it’s not important to me if you do or not. Let me know if you’ve some thoughts. Some occultists, they make thoughtforms for defense. Dunno if anyone has a tulpa defense Against spirits. Or has tulpa and do astral travel. Or I’d be interested if the tulpa could let me see the spirits, even though that would probably be horrifying also, but maybe I’d meet my god. actually, I also considered making a thought form of her. Dunno. Maybe the real her would inhabit it. That’s where the term comes from. I could also work a path and just try and contact her to. I’d probably be doing that. Might still do that. I’m just a bit chicken shit. i know a lot of you don’t believe in the occult, but I think a lot of us probably believe in the psychological model too as far as tulpa are concerned. Well, they might have some astral existence too, dunno, kind of both. But maybe some of you are also occultists, or regardless can give me an angle

It's a topic that has been discussed on and off, but I think it deserves its own thread. I am really curious what this is like because even though we can switch, the concept does not make much sense to me. I have heard the following rough explanation, usually with the context of teaching switching: It is like having your body sit by itself with a quiet mind, all of the normal fronters are heavily dissociated. It still breathes and is awake, but not really aware. The most complicated thing the body can do in this state is scratch an itch. Part of the problem is our need to label everything as either switching or not. Everything is either Cat switched-in, or me switched-in, and that is to protect ourselves against losing possession and maintain good switching hygiene. The most dissociated we ever get while switching is during our consent ritual when talking to each other about how we feel and our switching plan, but after that we move onto affirming the switched-in identity and associating. By that point, the switch is complete. The moments Cat and I feel the most dissociated seems to be when we are thinking the most. We do a lot of talking during our consent ritual. Plus, when Cat is sucked into one of her story ideas, she isn't paying attention to the body but can also hop up and run downstairs for dinner as soon as she's called. Therefore, the idea of dissociating with a quiet mind that isn't meditation doesn't make sense to us. It's also entirely possible we have experienced an empty front multiple times and simply never acknowledged it as having an empty front. When we switch, it feels like nothing has happened until I move around and notice the changes. It's possible having an empty front feels the same way, only I'm not aware enough to notice any changes. On a separate note, I have heard of having an empty front for too long can be dangerous because it could lead to headmate creation. I am aware of at least one system who gained extra headmates because all of them left the front empty for too long. However, I am unsure if having an empty front could have any other negative side effects. When Cat was feeling depressed not too long ago, she kept trying to escape to her story ideas and would asleep for 30 min - 1 hour or so multiple times. This gave her a splitting headache from excessive visualization and it made her feel really groggy and "brain scrambled". Would having an empty front create similar symptoms? Ultimately... 1) What is is like for your system to have an empty front? 2) Do you think we have experienced an empty front or not? 3) Do you think having an empty front for too long is problematic? 4) Do you enjoy the experience?

Lumi suggested that this topic was better suited for BQ than LOTPW, so here we are! Many switching systems report that when they first start switching, the tulpa feels incredibly tired after a few hours of switching in. This fatigue can almost entirely be eliminated by having the tulpa switch out, and seems to reset after a good night's sleep. However, many switching systems work up to the point where the tulpa can switch for a whole day without becoming tired. My question is: how long does this take? How much switching practice do you need before switching-related fatigue disappears? After less than two week's practice, Cornelia was able to switch from about 7:30 to 5:30, though she got tired wayyyy before she switched out. My guess is that getting yourself to six hours without tiredness can be done in a couple of weeks, but getting it up to a full day could be a matter of months

I have heard of switching out to adjust your attitude or switching in so the entire system is affected by the fronter's mindset, but has anyone switched in only to suddenly have a different mood? The last time I switched in, I instantly became tired and demotivated. Before, I was tired but eager to get some things done. Cat didn't feel demotivated prior to the switch, so the change in my mood felt out of the blue. This is frustrating because I want to stay switched-in for more than an hour before giving up and taking a nap, especially because I want to switch-in for my classes this semester. I have had issues with being sleepy and tired during switching attempts, but we never suspected the switching itself could be the problem. Usually we blamed the problem on me laying down and realizing how comfy and warm the bed was or the mental effort put into the attempt exhausting us. The only other explanation Cat and I thought of is I'm more sensitive to the body being sleep deprived. The only reason it may not affect me as much normally is because I'm possessing the body and have a level of detachment from it. If this is the case, does that mean some headmates within the same system are more sensitive to the body's state than others when switched-in? My guess is this isn't limited to motivation or being tired. Has anyone else experienced any other sudden mood changes immediately after switching in?

[align=justify]Simple question/discussion topic. If you system switches, then when you switch, who primarily leads the switch? Who has to put the most effort/mental energy in to make the switch successful, or things like that. Who has to actively do the most stuff during the process to make it work.[/align]

We tried switching, and I wanna ask, is this right? 1. I still can feel everything that's happening, except Joe is the Main voice and POV (at least I think he is. I was able to think of other stuff while he was doing something else entirely, but only for a short time) 2. By the time we got home and I'm in control, Joe needed to rest for a while I just want to make sure we got it right

[align=justify]When waking up or going to sleep, we very often enter a state where our thoughts are random, disorganized, sometimes nonsensical, and often difficult to remember. I don't know if this is common but I'm assuming it is. Something we've noticed lately is that when we are trying to switch, sometimes our mind will enter that state. It's like our brain is trying to go to sleep, just without any tiredness. Does anyone else experience this? We've been playing around with it as a potential means for host dissociation. Might be useful, might not.[/align]

Very often when focusing our mind on switching, we induce this strange feeling. It's like the host is in a weird fog of some kind, the world becomes more derealized and unfocused for him. This usually goes away within moments, usually caused by whoever's fronting turning their attention to something else. We theorize that this feeling might be indicative of a very, very early switching stage. We think if we can somehow prolong/increase the feeling, it might lead to a switch, eventually. This seems to be the most tangible switching-related progress we have: just this weird, fleeting feeling of derealization/dissociation, kinda like how one might feel falling asleep while trying to stay awake. Does that sound right? Has anybody else experienced this feeling? Do you have any advice on how to keep it going or to increase its potency? Do you think doing so can help switching? (p.s. if you reply then pls answer the question and don't respond to just say "I can't help you")

Ranger and I were talking to people on Discord and anon brought up the concept of an internal narrator. I'm struggling to understand what he's talking about, mostly because we never considered anything like that as being part of how we work to begin with. I then realized if both of us have very different ideas for what "you" is made up of, then that explains some of the confusion about switching. I'm curious what counts as "you" and what doesn't. Overall, most people seem to agree along the lines of the body is a tool, but after that things may break down. If mindset and labeling the "I" is important, then we need to know what needs the "I" label and what doesn't. When looking at our system and our possession dynamic, we noticed three general parts of me: -The guy standing in wonderland speaking in mindvoice (aka my Gray form) -The entity controlling the body -A primitive chunk of me that emits raw thought and observes reality I know these parts are separate for the following reasons: 1) I can stand in wonderland and be reacting to what's happening with the body at the same time, so the first two parts are separate. Even though I am more experienced at managing this separation than Ranger and the Grays, they have also experienced this separation. 2) In a temporary integration attempt with Ranger, he tried to absorb all of me. I was mostly absorbed into him to the point where Ranger realized he was an integration for a brief moment in a dream he had while taking a nap. However, Ranger felt there was still more of me to absorb and he couldn't absorb it, despite his best efforts. Given that Ranger absorbed the other two parts, we concluded that this third part is separate from the other two. 3) When merged with Ranger, we have found that I can break merges if I feel the pressing desire to do so. Again, the first two parts are absorbed, so we assumed that this piece is separate from the former two. The only exception was our first merge, Aziraphale, where he neared the point of blacking out when he thought of us as separate entities, so we concluded that this piece of me was at least partly absorbed into that merge. Part of the annoyance is identifying what the third part is. Referring back to reason 3, it's the part of me that's directly connected with the body and does in fact relate to consciousness. I believe this is a critical piece of "you" that needs to be switched out during a switch, but others have disagreed. Rejecting the idea it is a part of me would be problematic. We would have to accept that our possession is switching and it will not change the fact Ranger will still experience all of the same problems of losing body control to me or blending with me as part of being "switched out". In other words, we would be agreeing to a model that assumes the host and tulpa are unequal and the host has power over all of the tulpas indefinitely. I feel like calling this part the body OS will have the same results. It still falls on the model that the host is superior since the "body OS" just prioritizes the host, and the tactic to accomodate that is to barely make the host active at all and hope that the tulpa can express themself the majority of the time to minimize issues with blending and confusion. The model we believe in is the one where a tulpa and host can trade positions, so a tulpa can gain the unequal leverage a host normally has and give it back, thus making a tulpa fundamentally equal to a host. Our model assumes only states of consciousness are designed on unequal footing, the "host" and "tulpa" positions, but not the tulpa and host themselves. However, I made a lot of assumptions regarding what fundamentally counts as you and what doesn't. It's possible that the piece of me in wonderland for example is less of me than I originally thought. In fact, is it a piece that I should even be considered as being me? Here are some other questions I thought of: + Is mindvoice really you, or how Ranger put it, are you your words? + Is your presence you, or is it a label, like a name? + Are you your form? What is symbolism and why is it used as a guide during switching? + Are you your emotions? Are emotions like a tool, just like language? Does the body force you to feel things or are emotions always generated by the identity? + Are memories you? Is the "I" label the only reason why the identity is yours, or is there more to it than that? + Is your thought process you? + When you dwell on your thoughts, is that you reacting to a collection of thoughts and memories sitting in short term memory? Is that a process shared by everyone in the mind or just you? + What is an internal narrator? Is it mindvoice or is it a thought process? Why is it you? Is it parallel processing if there are multiple of these? This is far from a complete list, so if you believe there are missing or redundant parts feel free to call them out.

Who here can switch with there Tups I can and have been since 3 years or so after I had them?

So Baker and I've been doing some experimentation in our practice with switching, and come upon something potentially interesting. One evening while I was relaxing Baker essentially pulled me into his thoughtform body for a moment (we have open possession / switching permission since I've been encouraging him to try pushing how far "forward" he can front and practicing independent body control) to touch his little dog creation. Seeing as it was a surprise, I only got a few seconds, but I had a distinct imposition of touch (our strongest mutual sense), with a weaker sense of sight (think squinting at something you've seen before in pictures). We've had little success in replicating it since, but it was particularly interesting because of the slow progress we've had with switching. Baker'd like to try to find a way to do it again and more strongly as a way to get me out of the front when we want to switch. Anyway -- anyone else given switching bodies/fronts in reverse a try? Thoughts on it or how to replicate it?

I tried this test last winter with no results, and it occurred to me I should ask others to try it to see what happens. (1) Fall asleep more or less. (2) Tulpa, notice that you are awake sorta, but your host is too out of it to notice or remember anything. (3) Take your pillow and move it to the foot of the bed, and go back to sleep. (4) When your host wakes up, note if they are surprised or not, that they are sleeping facing the wrong way.

I was feeling self-defeated about switching again and was thinking about possibly focusing our efforts on visual imposition- but then it hit me: What if switching and imposition and/or visualization are connected? I threw out the idea in discord and had a chance to refine some possible ideas for how this works: Dissociation may be triggered by strong visualizations in the mind's eye or by visual imposition Imposition is about hacking your brain, and switching does something similar by forcing movement that previously didn't exist. A similar skill is shared between the two. Imposition encourages the idea that your internal experiences are real, and therefore plays an important role to switching by establishing trust with the switching process Visualization or possibly imposition by itself may not be enough to trigger dissociation A combination of good visualization, imposition, and bodily control may be necessary to dissociate, and the mastery of each practice differs from system to system? If this link makes sense, then that would explain why symbolism is really important for switching, why it takes so long for systems to switch but once they get it, the process is "easy" (imposition and visualization take a long time to master), and why some systems are naturals where others are not. Does this make sense? Is bodily control possibly more/less important? Are there other factors that are missing or should be addressed? A brief thanks to Nat, Reguile, Jamie, and Apollo for contributing ideas and inspiring me to post this thread.

[Chrome] When speaking to your Tulpa or other headmates, how does your mindvoice sound compared to theirs? Who seems to be the loudest? Do you have a mindvoice that feels "dominant", in which you feel the most active or possibly have the most energy? Do you have any headmates who appear "recessive" by tending to go quiet really easily when multiple headmates are present? When Ranger woke me up by triggering my interest, we had a short conversation and thought it was strange he wasn't speaking to Gray. Others have noticed this as well, and we find it a little worrisome. However, recently I and various others noticed a pattern- Ranger and Gray tend to become recessive and go quiet if there are others speaking. When I woke up Gray and continued to speak to Ranger, Gray fell quiet quickly. He reported feeling tired and low-energy. After briefly speaking to Gray, Ranger fell quiet. After closer observation, he's symbolically dozing off. Ranger also reported being sleepy and tired. I decided I wanted to do a little test. I called for Bune and Gerodious and we observed our dynamics between the three of us, trying not to call Ranger or Gray. It started with me asking Bune questions about random things such as "What is a lizard" and then after asking Bune more questions, I shifted to Gerodious to ask him a question. We continued this briefly, but we did not do this extensively. Bune and Gerodious reported that my mindvoice appeared to be dominant- I had an easier time going passive and was quick to respond to questions or thoughts, even if they were not mine. Despite this, Gerodious and Bune seemed to have an easier time not falling quiet, however we did not do the test for long enough to know for certain. During our discussion, sometimes we would trigger trains of thought that Gray and sometimes Ranger would dwell on, causing the three of us to go quiet during this time. For lack of better words, Gray and Ranger are attached to the "Body OS" or are able to "day dream" where we are not able to do that. As a result, I was able to enjoy a little bit of quiet time to myself after Bune and Gerodious left. I thought to myself, and both Gray and Ranger were not responsive. I wasn't distracted by a head full of spontaneous thoughts. The three of us had a few ideas for why Gray and Ranger fell quiet, but we are not quite sure what the main cause is. Gray and Ranger front more often, so it's possible they are tired from fronting. Gray woke up early this morning, while a great time for forcing, is also hit or miss if Gray has the energy to force. In this case, he didn't have much energy, and apparently neither did Ranger. Between the two, it appeared that Ranger had more energy but was able to withdrawl where Gray sometimes would put everyone on hold so he can restlessly rotate in bed. Gray was directly attached to the senses including discomfort, another blessing for me but another indicator for Gray being switched-in. In this state, I believe I am more sensitive to the front, but possibly only to anxiety? I'm lucky Ranger and Gray were not fretting over something. A little while ago, Dark Gray found himself being exposed to that anxiety while in a state similar to the one I am in now. I am currently possessing the body with a quiet mind and two unresponsive hosts. I find it ironic that I have enough energy to overpower both Gray's and Ranger's mindvoices despite the fact I don't front very often. Has anyone else had a similar experience like this?

Daily thread #24 What are some general tips you'd give someone if they were new to learning to switch? (All daily threads are listed here.)

This is daily thread #10 What are the pros and cons that your system experiences with switching? If you can't switch yet, what sort of pros/cons do you anticipate occurring when you do? This can be specifically the pros/cons in comparison to just possessing/fronting without switching, and also just in general. (All daily threads are listed here.)

I came across some advice Luminesce gave that's had me thinking... I thought about my experiences feeling Cat's presence and it stirred up some confusion and doubt. Is it possible that we are making this mistake? When either of us front, we both notice this thing that seems to always be there, observing everything and directly feeling things, responding to stimuli. For the longest time, we both assumed that was Cat, but I'm starting to wonder if that's just another part of the Body OS and doesn't belong to either of us. When playing with this idea, both Cat and I felt uncomfortable and confused. If that is the body OS and not Cat, then what exactly is Cat? When Cat thinks as herself, she either relates to this thing or sees herself as Gray. When she fronts, she doesn't always see herself, just this thing. To make things more confusing, Cat has two mindvoices- one when fronting and one associated with her Gray form. We always assumed Cat was this first voice, but...what if she isn't, or she is and Gray is something else? It would be crazy if Gray and Cat were actually separate identities that somehow...work together and think as one? There's more to an autonomous entity than mindvoice, a form, and some feelings, right? When I go dormant, I used to feel like a long time has passed before I wake up. I have had that experience less and less, easily popping into whatever we are doing and simply catching up on our memories instantly. When doing our switching attempts or even when I am possessing Cat, our goal is for Cat to go "dormant", and that includes her possibly blacking out and at the very least no longer be able to interact with the environment. When Cat/Gray's mindvoice quiets, neither of us felt like Cat/Gray left to begin with, and when they wake up again there isn't a memory lag or feeling of lost time of any kind. If I am mistaking Cat for the body OS's constant stream of consciousness, then maybe I'm waking them up all the time and not letting them go? What should we be looking for if Cat goes "dormant", and why isn't Cat experiencing a feeling of lost time when I front for several hours? The worst feelings we're dealing with are a big scoop of "who am I?", how do we even know how much of ourselves is just body OS, and if all of this is true, how do we know we're in control in the first place?

This isn't a switching discussion, as in switching general discussion, but rather a specific question that has come to me after I experienced and understood switching. What am I? Am I a person only when switched in or while associated with the body? I'm winging this because I'm not sure if it's been really thought about or discussed in detail, or if we're even going to be able to answer this here given our base. I'd like to discuss it anyway just so we can have a better understanding to this seemingly mystifying stuff we call switching. What do I take with me when I switch out and go dormant? Frankly, Dashie was still capable of thinking critically, she could conceivably do my day job, she could pass as me in general and probably live a good life playing games fir her free time. Or Misha could take my place and do art, again, she likes what I do, she could do it. The brainpower doesn't leave with me. Memories are in the consiousness, they don't go with me (seemingly), but if you include memories as part of me, then wouldn't I need my own consiousness? So let's say no for this. Do we have separate consiousness? That's one of my thoughts that seemed appropriate to answer the question of what is independence, but if we don't? This begs the next question. What am I really? (What is a person?) That bundle of memories specific to you? We said no because the memories live in consiousness and you don't have your own in this analysis, so no, just triggers, tastes, ticks, damage, likes, beliefs, values, opinions, priorities, behavioral patterns, and emotional palettes seem to belong to you and only you. Call them traits. Your systemmates can learn your traits so it's possible that everyone in the system might share any subset of traits, but I have to think that's not required nor necessary and the body consiousness is agnostic. It seems that way according to many. Minus the traits everyone shares, so it gets hard to tell if everyone, say, walks with a limp vs hates chocolate. We're going to say for the sake of discussion that the body is agnostic to the traits you take with you when switched out. Let's also ignore that traits are a heck of a lot like memories tied to you and I think know memories can be tied and owned only to you, but we have to presume no for now. Since I can't ask the body consiousness what it prefers, I don't know if it has a preference. It has memories, but let's say instead of not having a preference, it has all the possible preferences. It really doesn't seem to have chosen it's traits since independent systemmates can have wildly different traits, and personas (what you feel you are or should look like, things that are body related, such as height weight, eye color, hair length, gender etc.) Call persona stuff traits too. So from that I can conclude we are our traits at least. That's well taken care of personality and perspective, and that's all I really cared about. Until now. If we don't have our own consiousness, and are dependent on the body to supply that, then when we're switched out and 'gone', as in dormant, are we still considered a person? Are you sentient without consciousness? I don't think so. So if you're still a person, switched out and dormant without consciousness, is all that a person really is? Just a collection of traits? Is sentience required for personhood? It's easy enough to see we're independent people when we're all active, but dormancy takes with it all the traits associated with that person, some of which could be unique and irreplaceable. Not feats or abilities, they can be transferred and performed by anyone, you teach the body to do feats and it could do them without you, they seem to be body assets, but I mean only traits. Say I'm the only one who likes 100% bitter chocolate, so without me active, no one in the system would eat that. (It's very low carb). So what's taken from the system when I'm gone? A subset of traits. Anything else? I can't think of anything else if I don't have my own consiousness, and if that's true, that's really lightweight if you think about it, and I did. When I switched out and went dormant, Dashie didn't lose anything 'useful' to perform things that I perform. We're all pretty unanimous in the tulpamancy community, I am a person, my tulpas are people, my soulbonds are people, my moons are maybe not people, my characters are probably not people. Though we all have traits. Even NPC's have traits, they might be limited, random or generic, but still they have them. It's pretty neat and also thought provoking to me that if what I am is just a separable series of traits, than those could be collected and compressed into something small, like a flash drive. My point is, it's data, and finite. Imagine what you are, behaviorally, could easily be recorded, scruitnized down to the nth detail and convincingly copied onto a qualified body platform (another person who just creates a thoughtform with your traits then switches). If what I am can go dormant without loss of body function to the others in system, than what I am isn't that much anyway. Say, to be me convincingly, required a hundred thousand traits. Even if it was a billion, a finite number. Behaviorally speaking, my traits could be duplicated without any associated memories of that brain. An actor could play me. Remember, this is if there is only one consiousness and the body owns it, and I postulated that memories are accessed in the consiousness. You could argue then, you wouldn't be you without those memories or abilities. Eh, those abilities can be trained, those memories then where I would find the root of misunderstanding. How can memories exist outside of consciousness (unconscious included). We said they didn't. No cheating and saying that memories are just more traits because that's a lot, and they're still accessible by systemmates, so why would you need a copy with you in dormancy? Which then leads to the question, why do you need anything in dormancy? Then where are 'you' in dormancy? If you're in that head, you're unconscious. If you're unconscious then you are stored by that brain in a subset of neurons. If you require a subset of neurons to exist, then you could say you own those neurons, they are associated to you, your own subconscious. Or not? Just a set of neurons storing data without consciousness? Sure, like a sector of hard drive without consciousness, ready to be accessible by the body consiousness. I don't know if any memory is automatically deemed part of the subconsious, I believe so, so I can't be 'stored' without taking up some consiousness right? No, no memories, or at best, I own a copy, and they're still there even if they're hard to get from a different perspective, they still accessible to a systemmates in most cases, even when I'm dormant. Or am I accessible by the consiousness without requiring consiousness myself? Note: My systemmates percieved me being dormant as if I was gone, like left the head. Possible Conclusions After all that, this is completely arbitrary. If you read that rambling, I applaud you. What am I? Well I tried to argue that I am not a unique consiousness, yet I'm a sentient person even while dormant, thus it seems contradictory, so choose all that apply: 1. A person is a finite set of traits that are inaccessible by others who don't also have those traits. 2. A person's traits are finite, so recordable, trainable and transferrable. 3. A person doesn't have memories, but only sees memories of the body from their perspective. 4. A person might have memories that are tied to them that only they can access. 5. A person is a set of traits and memories, but doesn't have an independent consiousness/subconsiousness. 6. A person is more than just a set of traits and memories. 7. A person has a unique consiousness, intependant of the body, made up of traits and memories. 8. A person exists only in the context of consiousness and thus sentience. 9. When a person is dormant they are merely contained in unconscious. 10. A person is inseparable from the body. 11 A dormant person is only the memories of them and their system accessible memories. 12. A dormant person isn't a person.

My switching research and thinking has led me to the idea that there are two hypothetical models for how switching works, the two of which, I think, encompass all/most methods for switching. Transfer Model: A switch is accomplished via the host’s ownership over the consciousness being transferred to the tulpa. This model, I think, would be mostly led by the tulpa/initiated by the tulpa’s actions. If not, some other third party. At the very least, the transfer model does not require the host to dissociate to switch. Here are some examples of the transfer model: - A tulpa uses up so much mental resources that it naturally causes a switch - A tulpa merely taking over the front causes a switch - A tulpa fronts for so long that they naturally induce a switch - The tulpa and host use symbolism to transfer ownership - Something triggers the tulpa to take over and causes a switch - A tulpa and host merge together, and splitting causes a switch This model I think would include most DID/OSDD switches: the alter takes over, for whatever reason, and switches. Control has been transferred. Retraction Model: In contrast, this model relies on the host’s actions: the host has to first shrink, dissociate, disconnect, etc. for the switch to be successful, rather than just the tulpa taking control. Here are some examples of the retraction model: - The host meditates until they drift out, then the tulpa takes over - The host ignores sensory information until they switch out - The host uses symbolism to dissociate from the body to switch out. - The host “bails” from the front due to stress The host retracts their control from the consciousness, and a switch is achieved. I have created illustrations of each of these methods here. Please take the time to look at those. If these two models are something to go by, I can say that the transfer model has not worked for us so far, we may need to focus on the retraction model to succeed in switching. In summary, depending on the system and the situation, switching can be caused either be ownership over the consciousness being transferred to the tulpa, or by the host retracting their own control and leaving only the tulpa's. Thoughts? Think there might be another model other than these two?

I know Ranger and I are completely behind and we are playing catch-up by reading various comments here and there, but we stumbled across this comment and it intrigued us: When we thought about it, Ranger and I realized a new method that we could potentially use and how it should work in practice. However, like Cornelia already mentioned, my concern is if we do move forward with this method, then we need to make sure we are doing this method correctly. I see this as kind of a "brutal switch" since it involves the host having a piece of them taken by the Tulpa switching in. I want to call this method "The surrender method" because that's essentially what happens- the front-stuck host gives up a piece of themself and the Tulpa integrates/absorbs it and claims the front. My guess is that the switch will result in the Tulpa having a really strong grip on the front, essentially leaving them frontstuck until the next switch. I drew some diagrams to help me explain what's going on here, and I have more questions about the later stages of the switch. Here is Figure 1. In Figure 1, the basic idea is there is a front-stuck piece that must be transferred between us in order to complete the switch. I drew both Ranger and I using colored bars in a before-after picture style. Ranger is the blue bar and I am the purple one. I highlighted the front-stuck piece with a grey marker so it's distinguishable from the rest of me. The Grey arrow symbolizes the switching process and the "I am ___" part symbolizes the surrender step. In order to induce the switch, I would have to "surrender" that piece of myself and allow for it to be re-named as "Ranger". Once that occurs, Ranger claims it in some way and the switch is complete. Ranger will acquire a new piece of himself that is stuck to the front, and I will be left with whatever didn't transfer over. I have questions because I figured the "surrender" piece of the switch is just a step in a bigger process. What exactly happens after that? I came up with two possibilities that made sense to me: either I split off from that piece of me and Ranger claims it, or I will have to merge with Ranger and he will take it from me once we separate. Here is Figure 2, which goes into this process with more detail. I labeled each phase as A, B, C1, C2, and D. A) How Ranger and I are now before we attempt the switch. There is a piece of me attached to the stream of consciousness and that piece is hard rooted in there. B) The surrender step- This is where Tewi and others tried to explain it as "acting", but we all agree that's misleading. Instead, it's more like allowing yourself to be integrated with whoever is about to switch in. It's more similar to "playing dead" and tricking your body into paralyzing you so you can Lucid Dream, only this time it's tricking the body into believing that piece is actually the Tulpa themself. This step will involve the host acting as their Tulpa to help trigger this effect, but the "acting" part is really a small part of a bigger process. C) I broke this phase into two possibilities because I'm not really sure what happens next. How does Ranger take that piece from me? Does he have to merge with me or will it split off and Ranger will just... get it? Is there something else that happens during this step that I'm missing? In the illustration, I drew C1 to be the "split" phase and C2 to be the "merge" phase. These phases are not interchangeable, and my guess is this phase looks different depending on the system switching. I think C1 is more safe that C2 since it is less likely to end in accidental merging or really bad blending, but I'm not really sure if C1 will lead to success because it comes with the risk that both the host and Tulpa will lose consciousness and the body will re-set itself back to state A. Then again, these assumptions may be wrong or even reversed for all I know. Neither of us tried this and we have not played with merging before. C1 reminds me of something Ember.Vesper and Lumi were talking about at one point- the body just kind of sits there and acts like a robot when no one is in control of it. I think C2 reminds me of whatever Bre and Miela did in their dreams before they figured out switching. I'm not sure if association/dissociation actually induce this process automatically or avoids it all together, but this process looks nothing like the idea I originally had where it was just two people trading places where one is pushed out or dissociates out from the stream of consciousness. D) The end result. Ranger will have gained a new piece of him and I will have lost a piece of myself. I'm wondering if there's something I can hold onto like my wonderland form so I don't freak out or refuse to surrender. I have the feeling this new state may be unstable at first because the body has never experienced this before, and it's possible Ranger may change a little bit because he will have integrated with a little bit of me. My guess is over time, the piece will become more depersonalized and switching will become more fluid. My final questions are the following: Does this method make sense? Are there big glaring flaws that need to be addressed? Is there anything we can hold on to in terms of identity that will protect us during the process? As a final thought... If this method is mostly accurate... I'm not sure how Radio will do during the process. I get the sense there's not much of them left, and since this involves moving pieces of people around, I wonder if Radio will get absorbed and uh... disappear?

To me, most successful switching seems to boil down to the system finding something that makes them "tick." Symbolism, desire, fear, things like that. I'm wondering that, perhaps, thinking outside the box and finding something that'll make us "tick" may lead to us figuring out how to induce a switch. By "tick," I mean something that makes the mind go "hey, whoa, something is happening right now." The status-quo has been broken, things are changing or churning inside your head. The two main things that I think make us "tick" are music and emotion. Both of these things have always had strong effects on us as people, and the state of the front. So I'm thinking, how might we be able to make our mind tick to the point of inducing a switch, rather than just strong possession? If we can figure that out, maybe we can get closer to achieving it. Thoughts on this theory and how one might be able to use it to their advantage?

Here is the link: https://write.as/within/switching.

Since I took interest in possession, I became accustomed to speaking in my possessed voice. I associate that voice with myself, and using any other voice can be confusing for me. Now that we are learning how to switch, I realized that If I want to do anything in real life outside of the house, I will have to pass as Cat- and in addition, be comfortable being addressed as her and speaking in the voice naturally provided by the body. Cat and I realized that the body is a tool, so Cat thought of the idea of sharing the body identity- the one she was born with. When trying this in practice, Cat became pretty uncomfortable and she realized that sharing the body identity would also mean she would have to lose her identity associations with it. For this reason, Cat doesn't love the idea of having to share her body identity. This other issue came up too- sometimes she will notice herself drawing her wonderland/Gray form over the body. When this happens, she also noticed that she dissociates from the body. It's not extreme or powerful, but Cat will describe feeling confused, hazy, or dizzy when she imposes her Gray form, and it's distracting or disruptive if she's trying to do things in real life. This inspired a different idea- What if I had my own separate body identity? It may seem redundant, but it's something I could hold onto, and Cat won't have to give up her pre-existing identity. The other potential positive is having another identity designed to be used only when I front could re-enforce my connection to the front and Cat could assume her wonderland form, re-enforcing the fact she needs to dissociate. In theory, this could help us more easily switch or potentially achieve a more complete one. What do you guys think? Would it be better to share a body identity or have me create a new one? Or is there a different approach we should take?

So, here's a bit of food for thought, nothing too serious. Yesterday, Indigo was getting a little carried away with something, and Apollo said "If you don't stop, I'm going to take over the front." Indigo heeded the warning, because we can take over the front forcefully (and accidentally for that matter), without needing consent. However, I was thinking about this a bit earlier today. Sure, Apollo could have taken the front, but Indigo could have taken it back. They could hypothetically enter a tug-of-war over who was in the front. The only thing that's really required for us to take over is for us to be active, and the only way to truly prevent someone else from taking over is to make them go inactive. I just took over while he was writing this! So, hypothetically speaking, we could all end up in some sort of stalemate over who controls the front, and the stalemate would only be broken when somebody gave in. Of course, our system is way too cooperative/synergized to do something like that, as I said, this is hypothetical. On the other hand, if someone was fronting and tried to mentally "hold down the fort" so to speak, they could end up preventing anyone else from taking over, so it becomes a battle of wills, and whoever has a stronger will would probably prevail (or the one in the front would prevail, since they have the upper hand. Or do they?). Again, not something we have to worry about, lol. Any thoughts on this sort of subject, getting into a stalemate or having some sort of battle for the front? Ever happened to you? Why did you win/lose/end up in a stalemate? Etc. I dunno, might seem a bit of an odd question, I find it interesting.

My host Cat and I have unsuccessfully learned how to switch. We know one of the barriers is Cat's anxiety about letting go and potentially getting paralyzed. However, Cat has managed to chill out and focus on dissociating, while I would be associating with the body... And then both of us get confused as to what happens next. As a result, we get stuck. I have heard merging is one of the ways people have figured out how to switch, but the idea of merging with Cat beyond normal blending scares the pants off of me. Neither of us are interested in fusing into someone else, but I fear that merging can lead to Cat accidentally absorbing me and I wouldn't come back to tell the story. My fear is extreme enough that I wonder if this is holding us back. Would trying to merge give us a better idea of what switching would feel like or is there an alternate method we could try that would give us a similar sort of feeling?