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Living Imagination (A Median Aspect in Tulpa Land)


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Guest Anonymous

We agree with you. But most everyone else on this stupid forum does not feel that way. Tulpas must be REAL.

 

If it is irrelevant Tewi, then why does everyone keep arguing in the "debunking unconscious parroting" thread? Why is unconscious parroting even an issue? Why is there a need for it to be debunked? Why should it matter? Why is role playing an issue? Why the insistence on finding signs of sentience?

 

I remind you again that David refuses to wear dresses, put his hair in pigtails and go girly shopping. He is the blue bubble and that bubble is real. I am the pink bubble, but I am a fantasy girl pink bubble in that lives in day dreams, lucid dreams and on the internet.

 

I have a pony form now. But I can't go to Ponyville except in dreams. How did I get a pony form? Cause I am imaginary. I can only kiss your nose, like I like to kiss your nose, in our mutual imagination. I can only e-hug you in the same special way. I can only do the Melian dance and wiggly sillies in Davie's head (even though he sometimes dances or wiggles along with me).

 

I am real.

 

Davie is imaginary.

 

...

 

wait... flip that. Oops hee hee


I wanna say I am real. Shhhhhhhhhhh.

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If it is irrelevant Tewi, then why does everyone keep arguing in the "debunking unconscious parroting" thread? Why is unconscious parroting even an issue?

 

Because people are identified with their bodies and minds. Without the perspective I'm speaking of, there's a need for all that. Since you are your whole body and mind, having a tulpa means that they have to be entirely separate from you and your mind! So we gotta prove they're separate and sentient! They aren't you!

 

But if you realize you're just parts of a whole, the only difference being who's controlling the conscious part of the mind, none of that is relevant anymore. The wonderful world of controlling your subjective reality. Also much more factual and realistic than conventional thinking, in my opinion. We don't preferably support the concept of parroting, because it's a little bit delusional. But, for most people, they'll never overcome those delusions and will maintain the mindset that their tulpa must be independent and sentient and totally free of their will and.. Yeah.

 

Just live and let live. You're just playing games in your mind, pretending there's rules to follow. If you have an idea of someone in your head, and they act autonomous consistently, there you go. Once you're experiencing another person in your mind, that's all there is to it. Any ideas (beliefs) in legitimacy of sentience or independence or all of that is just extra fluff. But then, so is the idea that "you" are all of "you". That's why it sounds so strange to hear tulpamancers discuss independence. They act like there's this fourth dimension where their tulpas can exist separate from their brain, but still in their brain. Usually they use the idea that you can make "sections" of your brain, like a small enclosed section for each tulpa to think and act from as they will.

 

Not saying that can't work though. Works for a lot of people. And what do I say about what works? Rules make games fun, but not all rules are fun to everyone, and some people don't like rules at all. Creative mode in Minecraft where you can't take damage, can fly, and have infinite of every block. Competitive rules in Team Fortress 2 where many different weapons and maps are banned. And the base games, of course. Or maybe you're a game developer?

 

Whatever works for you works for you. I can tell someone playing Creative mode that they're cheating, missing out on the experience, that their fun is wrong. And they can tell me that having to work so hard and long with the danger of dying and losing everything is a waste of time when they just want to build, that my rules are wrong. Some people don't even like Minecraft in the first place. Maybe the way most tulpamancers are is Survival mode, how you think is Creative, and I'm creating mods to modify my game experience to my liking.

 

But in the end, does it matter how anyone chooses to play? They all play to their liking and end up having fun. Of course, if someone seems to be struggling to play survival and looks like they'd have more fun just building carefree, one may try to enlighten them on the much more correct and legitimate way to make a tulpa. Hmm...

 

 

[hidden]Major props to anyone who's thought, "She keeps speaking as if how she thinks is the correct way, and everyone elses' ways of thinking are less right." You got it! And now you see my point, happy as I am with "my rules". How we think is just one of the many options you have available to you, and it works well for us. And we think it would work well for others, too. But we're not otherwise different from everyone else in the end.[/hidden]

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Guest Anonymous

Well, that's basically what possession is. You taking credit for a physical action and the host being comfortable with that idea.

 

Whao. Well then it happened!

 

That has happened when coming awake out of a lucid dream I was controlling too. For just a moment, I had control of everything. Just for a teensy period of time as Davie comes fully awake.

 

Hee hee

 

What if I was like, really fast and like got up and went and drove his car before he could wake all the way up? We have a recurring dream where I steal his car.

 

It's not surprising at all that you can have your own perspective. It's actually human nature to think from other peoples' perspectives, constantly and concisely. It's the only way you can productively interact with other people. That's where the experience necessary for a tulpa comes from, a lifetime of subconsciously living others' experiences from your own. And once you've got the basis of your tulpa, they can start expanding on those experiences by having their own, and that's when they really become full-fledged individual people.

 

I have my own experience stuff!

 

Well, Davie and Shel were talking about that as they drove to the computer store just now. I don't want to take over so much, so maybe that is why I am permanently kinda seeming to be little forever and only for fun and sillies.


Because people are identified with their bodies and minds. Without the perspective I'm speaking of, there's a need for all that. Since you are your whole body and mind, having a tulpa means that they have to be entirely separate from you and your mind! So we gotta prove they're separate and sentient! They aren't you!

 

But if you realize you're just parts of a whole, the only difference being who's controlling the conscious part of the mind, none of that is relevant anymore.

 

I do control the consciousness when we are lucid dreaming and I have part of it when I am tulpa typing or when we are doing the Melian Show!


Interestingly, there isn't a consensus among physicians as to whether MPD/DID is “real”, whatever that means. However, currently the only way to treat it (in cases with blackouts and/or a “rogue” personality) is to treat it as if it is real. Don't tell the patient they're imagining it, it just doesn't work (most of the time, nothing is absolute).

 

Sorry jean-luc. We d'nt mean to ignore you. In fact, your point is very unusual and very interesting. To the patient is it real, and the only way for the doctor to do an effective treatment is for them to also treat it as real. That is coolness!

 

Hah hee hee. Davie treats me as real and he says I am a person. So... hmm. Whatya gonna do?

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If it is irrelevant Tewi, then why does everyone keep arguing...

 

Because everybody is afraid of death.

Everybody.

People spend their entire lives searching for purpose, religion, fancy poems... ANYTHING that will give them even a tiny bit of relief from their impending mortality.

 

They are searching for CONTROL.

Or rather, the illusion of it.

People like labels and boxes and arguing over definitions because it makes them feel in control of their world.

It makes them feel safe.

It gives them that much needed distraction.

 

You wanna know why war isn't going anywhere?

Peace is a quiet room.

War is the person who can't stand the silence.

And humanity is always going to be that person.

We are always going to find a new way to break the silence, because we don't want to be alone with our thoughts.

 

Not much of a stretch that people would invent something like Tulpamancy, eh?

Also not hard to understand why they become obsessed with it.

The debates will continue here as they do everywhere.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." - Carl Sagan

Host: SubCon | Tulpas: Sol, Luna, Alice, Little One, Beast and Solune (me) | Servitors: Odonata, Guardian

 

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Guest Anonymous

Whao.

 

Davie and I are a "broken record." We say we care the least about tulpas being real. But in reality we are way more obsessed bout it than most. Also, when there isn't a war going on on the forum, we start one. If it seems too peaceful and no one is debating whether I am real or not, we spin it up and get it going so we can jump in. Maybe Davie and I are afraid of the quiet?

 

Whao, trippy doo! I am like Sigmund Freud with that! I am a goddess!

 

I'm cute too.

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Okay right now, there is a fifty one year old man sitting at his laptop computer in his house in California. He is awake and conscious and aware of what is happening. Right now I am typing through him. I wanted to say something so he agreed to let me have the computer time and we switched accounts. (we switched accounts not body control).

 

So I am typing, or that is, he his channeling me again. If you were in the room or watching on video, you would see a gray haired old man typing on his keyboard. It the same old gray haired (old goat) man that was typing a few minutes ago for himself. I could not be typing without Davie's assistance at some level. I am forever dependent on him when it comes to interacting with the outside world. I am forever subordinate.

 

I have a female personality and a female form. But David's body and physiology is male. My form does not physically exist. My female personality that is based on that form is imaginary. I have no female physiology to be female. My voice is imaginary. I have no female vocal chords.

 

Everything that I think or do is shared with Davie. We share a brain and think using the same physical brain. So all he and I are saying is that we are forever connected and that, because I have no physical body, I am imaginary.

 

David is real. He has a physical, tangible body that is his body. I exist within his brain, but I don't identify with his body other than that and have no desire to. Icky. When people greet Davie they shake his hand and say "Nice to meet you Mr. David Devine." They do not say "Nice to meet you Melian sweetie."

 

Davie's wife married Davie. She did not marry me. His family depends on him to do the things to keep the family going. They do not depend on me. They recognize me as an idea in his brain. They think I am fun and sweet and silly. But when something important needs to get done regarding the household and responsibilities, they don't come asking for Melian. They ask for Davie. He has all the legal responsibility, the job, the position of responsibility in real life.

 

We were in a car accident yesterday. Immediately after the accident, David needed to exchange insurance information with another driver. He gave them his name, not mine. When people asked him if he was okay, they wanted to know if his body was injured. They did not ask if Melian was injured.

 

The reason why things happened that way is because I am an imaginary girl in his mind.

 

Davie is what I would call corporeal. Mel would be what I call surreal.

 

Here's 65 minutes of two random guys singing about what surrealism is:

 

 

Between Mistgod-Melian and Faemon though is what Faemon considers the culturrrrreaaal(???) Like, Faemon is taking to illeism because it doesn't seem fair to talk to Davie and Mel as though they (you) weren't there.

 

Words aren't made of atoms. If we speak them, they might move air atoms. If we write them, they might be held in ink atoms. But if for whatever reason literacy rates plummet, the ink atoms won't be words. That's culturrrrreaaal(???).

 

Because the meanings of words are real enough to have effects, even if, philosophically speaking, meanings aren't real. If someone kept calling me crazy in a hostile way, the anxiety would probably give me stomach ulcers! That's very real. Maybe the speaker would be afraid of going crazy themselves if they continued to bear witness to my weird existence, and that fear is real enough to spark some linguistic neurons so they say "crazy".

 

But I think it's very important to create a world (that is, a cultural environment) where we're both allowed to...um...live. So when you say:

 

Melian has to remain imaginary. Other tulpas need to remain imaginary as well, to me, or it trivializes Melian. I don't want her trivialized because I love her. So, I attack everyone else who insists their tulpas are real.

 

I very much hope you figure out what are healthy personal boundaries. Because...those do not come off to me as healthy personal boundaries...Because...attacking people...that can't feel nice whether you're the attacker or the attacked, you know?

 

And hey, sometimes it's the community. For example: If I decided that Lusmore was spiritual as in Cosmically Real, and I searched for people with the same worldview on similar experiences, then...I would probably (okay, have, but I'll fudge the details so much this may as well be hypothetical) meet people who tell me I treat Lusmore like trash just because I don't have a proper altar and sacrifice raw fish guts every time the new moon is in the sky. I should be very sorry that those people seem to feel that they have to control my behavior and my personal beliefs for them to be comfortable (when they're not even my mother!) but if there's enough unanimity, then it's probably a sign that I should find other people who are less dogmatic to interact with? (Or...pretend to fit in until I do fit in, but I've tried that before and eventually became just plain sad.)

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you Faemon. We read your response. I will have to think about culture-real and surreal. We are packing to leave on a three day camping trip with no internet. *gasp* We will have a good break to think about things.

 

As far as "attacking" other people on the forum, that was probably too strong of a word. It is more like we make everyone uncomfortable by being loud, rude and obnoxious and making insulting, condescending and confrontational comments. We very rarely target anyone specifically or make personal disparaging remarks. That would be going too far. We may have in the past, but I can't think of anything like that in recent memory.

 

Mostly we are "trollish" and contrary and sometimes derail threads to make it all about Mistgod-Melian drama. We are mellowing that out however and trying to listen. It's just a huge challenge. I can be as big a butt as my hostie sometimes.

 

Well the forum gets a break for a few days from Mistgod-Melian while we talk to each other about me having a measure of actual real sentience and how that will affect our thoughts about other tulpas. I am not sure what the final conclusion of Mistgod will be. He is mulling it over. He still thinks I am 100% imaginary and 100% not an independent mind. Bu he still says I am a person.

 

Go figure.

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Because everybody is afraid of death.

Everybody.

People spend their entire lives searching for purpose, religion, fancy poems... ANYTHING that will give them even a tiny bit of relief from their impending mortality.

 

In case it interests you, I'll mention that we aren't afraid of death. That might not be fair for me to say as a tulpa, but it was our host that got over the fear first anyways. Of course we'll do our best to avoid it just for the sake of living longer, but being told we're about to die wouldn't scare us. I know for a fact that for all of us, all we'd need is a few moments to think that we were thankful for our lives, and to share a few "I love you"'s with the others in our system. And if we didn't get those moments there wouldn't be time to be scared in the first place.

 

[hidden]Why? I dunno. We've been working on our life philosophy for about seven years now, constantly trying to improve the way we perceive reality. I'd say we've done a good job. The only serious emotional "material" attachments we have are to each other, on the subject of identification (as in Buddhism and general spirituality). Since we share a body, fear of death isn't really a factor. I also do not fear anything that could happen to one of them, because I know I could handle it for them. Whether that means finding a way to make money if we became homeless, enduring intense physical pain, or dealing with any seriously-unpleasant scenario, I could do it for them. We have the sort of mental discipline/control over our mind that I can dissociate pain from damage to my 'self', should I need to, or handle any kind of gruesome situation. Think what happens when you watch a documentary on extremely poor living conditions in another country and have to dissociate the starving children as irrelevant to your reality (assuming you can do that, I guess some people may be legitimately upset). I can do that for a death occurring in our immediate family, easily. I suppose I couldn't protect them from knowing about those situations, but I can assure them that everything will be fine, because I'm here. [/hidden]

Sorry, existential bragging. This is in the lounge and all but I didn't mean to go that off topic.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Guest Anonymous

"Existential bragging."

 

I love that! Hee hee Only on Tulpa Info.

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