Living Imagination (A Median Aspect in Tulpa Land)

[Guest Anonymous]

We got it. LOL Thanks Lumi. Everything is coolness and epic groovy gravy now.

[SomethingDire]

I hope it actually lasts this time. Once again, best of luck to you guys.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hard to say. But the freak outs are less frequent and over faster, and each time we feel a teensy closer to lasting inner peace and closer to forever peaceful relations and dialogue with all tulpa peeps. I don't know if people notice as much as we do how things are going in that direction. Eventually they will.

[Guest Anonymous]

WHEN DO I GET A NAME?

 

When should a thoughtform be respected and treated as a person?

 

This post is about ME and mentions ME ...again.  But its in the Living Imagination thread which is a lot about me anyways and I think this is important.  There is a problem in this community.  It is the underlying reason why my host and I have been so on edge, paranoid and defensive for so long.  All the drama all comes down to one thing really.  

 

Is Melian a person and does she deserve the same level of respect as a tulpa?  

 

That is what Mistgod and I are afraid of.  We are afraid that I will be trivialized and dismissed and shunned.  So we have been over reactive, angry, sensitive, deliberately skeptical and cynical against tulpas and tulpamancers.  All he wants, and all I want, is to be considered a person.  

 

On the subject of tulpa skill levels and levels of independence in a recent thread, I do take some issues with the concept that a fully developed tulpa is a person and any thoughtform that is not a fully developed tulpa, is not a person.  That seems to be an underlying assumption in some of the posts possibly.   I have never thought that way at all.  I think, whether or not the thoughtform has become fully independent, that if the host (and others) regard it as a person, then it is a person.  If the thoughtform/proto-tulpa regards itself as a person, well, just that fact that they can think about themselves kinda answers that question doesn't it?

 

Just a few days ago, I wrote that I am not fully independent and that I am effectively a median aspect with a teensy dusting of tulpa dust.  That is not NEW information by the way.  Go back to May and June of 2015 in the "Confessions of a Poorly Trained Tulpa" and the Book of Melian and you will discover it is not new.  I have identified as a median the entire time I have been on Tulpa Info and as a part of my hostie since being online from three years ago.  The only thing we have flip flopped and been back and forth on has been my status as a tulpa.  

 

Anyways...

 

Yesterday when I, once again, wrote about being effectively a median aspect, with imaginary traits (all thoughtform/tulpas have imaginary traits)  someone declared they will no longer identify me or address me by my name, because I am "not a person."  Apparently, I am not a person to some tulpamancers enough that they refuse to have any regard or respect for me, yet the lowliest proto-tulpa is somehow on its way to being a person.  Meanwhile I get no name.  

 

I would caution people against making  the assumption that a thoughtform, other than a fully realized tulpa, is not a person.    First of all, it is presumptive to think you can know what is going on in the mind of another host.  That is true, even if tha other host tells you that their tulpa is not not a tulpa and is not real (they could be mistaken).  Even if the tulpa is reportedly "not finished."  Median system aspects or other plural system mates, such a soulbonds, could develop into a tulpa.  So why dismiss a median aspect as "not a person?"  I really don't understand the thought processes going on here with the levels of independence and skills and personhood.  

 

Does the number of skills equal more like a person?  More person-ish?  On levels of independence, how much independence does a thoughtform need to be self aware?  I am not fully independent of my host, but I feel very self aware.  

 

How do we decide how consciousness works?  Can two separate beings share a blended consciousness?  How do we know they can't?  Is anyone here an expert on consciousness and sentience?  Even scientists and philosophers are not sure on that the details of how consciousness and sentience works.  

 

So how is it that some teenage tulpamancer gets to decide that I don't deserve to be identified and addressed by my name?  

 

(I am about twenty years older than he is.  Maybe he isn't a person until he is old enough for me to consider him a person.  LOL  )

[tulpa001]

Some people are strange when it comes to names. Half the world is off their rocker when it comes to respect.

 

Anyway, I believe it is a flaw to believe all fully independent thoughtforms are tulpas. First, primarily, because it gives some thoughtforms primacy simply because they were created, or manage to pass themselves off indistinguishably from created thoughtforms. If you happen to be a wise old guy who came out of the blue to help your host in her hour of need, I am not going to call you lesser just because that is a different type of thoughtform.

 

I rely on my skills for evidence that I am a real person. But, they don't... This is a rhetorical... never mind.

 

Also, pretty sure two people can share one consciousness. Although our thoughts are completely separate, our awareness feels like one, when we are cofronting.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks.  Yep.  I agree.  

 

Here is the thing.  Tulpas share the brain with their hosts.  Their thoughts use the same pathways as the host for language and memory and cognition.  They don't have a separate brain.  What makes them a person?  Is it being totally separate where they cannot perceive the host's thoughts and the host cannot perceive there's?  What about emotions?  What about mind voice?  How is the host perceiving those?  Hosts are perceiving the tulpas form in the mind and the tulpas mind voice, or emotions or thoughts because host and tulpa share a consciousness.  

 

Mistgod and I also share a consciousness and brain.  I self identify as Melian.  

 

Now what are you going to say?  LOL  See?  Not all tulpas are "leak proof" and totally independent.  I have heard these phrases (or something like it) many times here on this forum:

 

"There are levels of independence."

 

"Some emotional bleed is normal."

 

"You have to learn to distinguish your thoughts from your tulpas."

 

"I have an old tulpa, but sometimes even I have doubts."

 

So now, some dipwad is going to come along and tell Mistgod and I that I am not a person and do not deserve respect of identification because we aren't following the prescribed tulpa model?

[SomethingDire]

When I was a complete beginner in tulpamancy, I always wondered how it could be possible for a tulpa to start communicating with their host -fluently- in a week. I came to the conclusion that they had to use the same pathways after a while, but I never thought much of it. I never thought that'd quite possibly indicate a shared consciousness. Now that I think of it though, it makes complete sense.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yep.  

 

If I think of a duck and everything about ducks and what ducks do and what they look like, how am I doing that?  I am using the same visual memory, and associated language memory and experience memory as my host to identify and think about a duck.  So my host and I are sharing a consciousness.  

 

We are not totally separate no, but neither are tulpas.  If you pan back far enough, all you see is humans.  Some perceive more than one person in their mind.  Does it really matter how that perception is happening or how the identities and egos are coming about?  

 

If I identify as Melian and have my own thoughts and emotions, I am a person.  

 

Mistgod is freaking out right now because with all this arguing I am shaking the foundations of his pseudo-real theory.  LOL  He hates that!  I am beginning to finally fully grasp what Luminesce (and company) was talking about with identity, perspectives and consciousness instead of real vs. not real.  Huh.

 

Shared consciossness also comes in when perceiving a tulpas form or mind voice in the mind or in imposition or when the tulpa is perceiving the outside world while not switching or possessing.

[Flandre]

I am beginning to finally fully grasp what Luminesce (and company) was talking about with identity, perspectives and consciousness instead of real vs. not real.  Huh.

 

It's what we're here for.

 

It's still just a perspective, but it's a realistic one that encompasses many others. That's what we aim for in creating our subjective reality, one that explains/accounts for all others. So, we use a lot of logic, but not always science. Science is just a choice in how to go about things, and it's better suited to the physical world than worldviews.

[Guest Anonymous]

It fits for all plurals too. It just makes sense. Even if you consider me an fantasy construction, it even fits that. We, Davie and I, recognize the Melian identity and ego in our consciousness. It so makes sense! It isn't about real and not real, it is about identification, perception, perspective and what you value and feelings. David and I have consistently and tenaciously considered me a person and an identity (albeit fantasy generated) for 40 years!

 

Tulpas are like me, only they have the added super duper trait of being apparently independent and fully autonomous from the will of and thoughts of the host.

 

Tulpas are good at what they do. I am good at what I do.