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Living Imagination (A Median Aspect in Tulpa Land)


Guest Anonymous
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I don't really care to judge what's real based on what others think. That's pretty idiotic if you're going for fact, and not just social acceptance (which isn't idiotic). Real real is what affects you. Aliens, magic, tulpas, they're all real if they affect someone's reality. Now, for the larger shared consensuses on what is real, qualia must be highly agreed upon as universal to be considered real, ie emotions such as love and fear. Otherwise the thing needs a physical presence, or it is considered "supposed/real in effect" at best. That's not so bad, but stopping there may bother some.

 

I don't have to prove a damned thing. I could fail every parallel processing test and brain scan in the universe and she would still be there.

 

Same here.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Guest Anonymous

See I find that argument "it is subjectively real in the mind, therefore it is real" a pathetically illogical and, frankly dumb, argument. Melian is seemingly real in my mind maybe. But she is NOT REAL. She will never be real, EVER. No one else has a tulpa that will ever be any more real than Melian either. They are all, every last one from the most skilled to the newest baby tulpa, only imaginary.

 

Subjectively real pretty much means "seems real in my mind so I treat it as real." That's great. I do the same thing with Melian. But that does not make it actually real. Everyone wants to prove that subjectively real means actually real and it just doesn't.

It never will. I am not frustrated by people treating them as real. I am frustrated with all the talk of proving it is real or that there is some magical emergence moment when they become real over imaginary. There isn't. It is a fantasy. It is totally up to what a person wants to believe and how vivid his or her imagination is.

 

Even if you use the argument that the brain creates "mirror neurons" that form a "second person" I still consider that part of the same brain and the same mind. The brain uses all the same parts to form the thoughts of the virtual person. It only becomes an aspect of the same brain and same system. It is a second personality, but THE SAME INDIVIDUAL MIND, who only acts or behaves like he is more than one person. It is a psychological delusion.

 

This is MY perspective on it and you would find plenty of scientists who would agree with me on it. It's not like I would be the only person in the universe to think this way or that is somehow freaking WRONG. It's just that I am in the tulpa community with that perspective, so it goes against the tulpamancy consensus. That is the TULPAMANCY consensus.

 

Again, the vast majority of people on Earth, most of humanity, will have their consensus that tulpas are only imaginary. The tulpamancy consensus is puny in comparison.

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Multiple minds in one brain is a fantasy. I don't believe that such things exist. Any such effect is a psychological delusion.

 

Please explain how different members of "systems" can have different sets of allergies. Human beings cannot control allergies with the imagination. This is something that has been tested and reported outside of this article.

We're all gonna make it brah.

 

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Guest Anonymous

Yes I have heard all of those arguments. When Melian is around I feel nauseous around pickles. She hates pickles but I love them. I have to ask her to kinda go away for a while so I can eat my pickle in peace. The effect seeems real. But Melian is only imaginary. I think if she decided to be allergic to pickles, it would be even worse.

 

Despite that research, the leading theories on Dissociative Identity Disorder define it as a "dreamlike delusion," even with the second personality having very defined personality traits and having their own allergies.

 

Again, this does not prove that tulpas are somehow real to me because some dudes second personality can have a psychosomatic allergy.

 

EDIT: I just read the article you linked. No where does it say that because the patient's personalities had different allergies, the personalities were proven not to be a delusion. In fact, these were patients being treated for a delusional disorder. It is an article on how the mind can effect the body physiologically.

 

"''If the mind can do this in tearing down body tissue, I think it suggests the same potential for healing,'' said Dr. Braun, who directs a 10-bed psychiatric unit that uses psychotherapy, hypnosis and drugs to treat people with multiple personalities. He said he believed that the drastic physical changes seen in patients going from personality to personality could be duplicated for emotionally normal people under hypnosis."

 

In other words, the scientist who did the study thinks he could do this with ordinary people by inducing a delusion through hypnosis. You just gave evidence for my point of view.

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Interestingly, there isn't a consensus among physicians as to whether MPD/DID is “real”, whatever that means. However, currently the only way to treat it (in cases with blackouts and/or a “rogue” personality) is to treat it as if it is real. Don't tell the patient they're imagining it, it just doesn't work (most of the time, nothing is absolute).

I don't visit as often as I used to. If you want me to see something, make sure to quote a post of mine or ping me @jean-luc

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Becoming nauseous is different than breaking out into a rash though.

 

I'm researching how possible psychosomatic allergic reactions are, and all I'm seeing is information about how allergy sufferers, when put under stress, can suffer symptoms close to allergic responses. I'm also seeing information about how a person with allergies a material that causes a reaction, it can break into a reaction before actual exposure.

 

If you can find information about how a rash, or swelling, or whatever (that isn't something to do with the mind) can be psychosomatic, then I'll consider you to have proven your point, and I'll go do something else.

 

Edit: Alright, maybe that was a shoddy article then. That was just the first one related to the argument that I could find on google. As you can see I'm a Harvard level researcher.

We're all gonna make it brah.

 

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Again, the vast majority of people on Earth, most of humanity, will have their consensus that tulpas are only imaginary. The tulpamancy consensus is puny in comparison.

 

Okay, that's an egregious use of argumentum ad popularum. Whether or not the world at large believes tulpas are real or imaginary is totally irrelevant, and doesn't prove anything. At some time in history the vast majority of people believed that the sun revolved around the earth, but that didn't make it any more true.

 

Saying "plenty of scientists would agree with me." is just an argument from authority and doesn't prove anything either. Which scientists? Where?

 

Calling other people's arguments "pathetic and dumb" is kind of stupid when your post reads like a textbook example of "how not to argue".

I want to be ignored

Don't want a speaking part

I don't want any one to notice

The blood spilling out of my exploding heart

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Guest Anonymous

The opinion of the majority of scientists does carry some weight. You make a point with the argumentum ad popularum. But appealing to the majority in the science community seems a little stronger and isn't a weak argument at all. Scientists usually back up what they say with research and empirical studies. No I am not going to quote specific studies for you Punch.

 

I just proved Stevie's argument that multiple personalities having different allergies supports my point of view.

 

Yes I have heard all of those arguments. When Melian is around I feel nauseous around pickles. She hates pickles but I love them. I have to ask her to kinda go away for a while so I can eat my pickle in peace. The effect seeems real. But Melian is only imaginary. I think if she decided to be allergic to pickles, it would be even worse.

 

Despite that research, the leading theories on Dissociative Identity Disorder define it as a "dreamlike delusion," even with the second personality having very defined personality traits and having their own allergies.

 

Again, this does not prove that tulpas are somehow real to me because some dudes second personality can have a psychosomatic allergy.

 

EDIT: I just read the article you linked. No where does it say that because the patient's personalities had different allergies, the personalities were proven not to be a delusion. In fact, these were patients being treated for a delusional disorder. It is an article on how the mind can effect the body physiologically.

 

"''If the mind can do this in tearing down body tissue, I think it suggests the same potential for healing,'' said Dr. Braun, who directs a 10-bed psychiatric unit that uses psychotherapy, hypnosis and drugs to treat people with multiple personalities. He said he believed that the drastic physical changes seen in patients going from personality to personality could be duplicated for emotionally normal people under hypnosis."

 

In other words, the scientist who did the study thinks he could do this with ordinary people by inducing a delusion through hypnosis. You just gave evidence for my point of view.

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