Coaster

Tulpae = Compartmentalizing Positivity?

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(Please let me know if this is the wrong section to put this in!) 

I just had a thought: tulpamancy is like reverse DID. People with DID compartmentalize negative emotions and memories, but with tulpae you're compartmentalizing positive emotions (because tulpae generally have their host's best intentions at heart) and you're maintaining a relationship with that positivity. By doing that, those with low self esteem - who don't believe anything nice they say to themselves - are finding a way to make their own happiness believable. It's taking the advice "talk to yourself as if you were speaking to a friend" very literally. What do you guys think?

 

I saw Bear's Forcing Filter Experiment and it sounded a lot like CBT thought challenging, with a lot of extra steps that included creating a whole other damn person lol. I may try that as well because in the past I've had a hard time believing the logic against irrational intrusive thoughts, maybe I'll believe my buddies instead.

 

And while I'm here, I'd like to ask if any of you have heard of the Theory of Structural Dissociation? I think I've seen emotional personalities referred to here as "masks" and "aspects of yourself" and people talk about multiplicity but I don't see this specific framework of dissociation mentioned. Structural dissociation can be used to explain not only DID, but also PTSD, C-PTSD, BPD, and OSDD. (Though non-mentally ill people have mild structural dissociation too, like thinking of themselves as Work Bob and Home Bob and Dad Bob, and it's healthy!). It makes me wonder if people choose to create tulpae or imaginary friends due to something that overode their ability to fully dissociate and form alters? Of course, these are simply my thoughts; I've seen that there are people with no mental illnesses that make a tulpa out of pure curiosity.

 

If there has been similar topics to this, please link them I'd love to read it.

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That's an interesting idea, and while it is the case sometimes (possibly often), it's not always the case, if that's what you're asking. A lot of the times, tulpas are simply a neutral thing. Just another person, and relationships develop pretty normally. But yes, there are frequent cases where what you said could apply, too, it's just not a rule.

 

Haven't heard of the latter thing because we don't look into this stuff, but your very last question doesn't seem right. I don't think tulpamancers' abilities to do anything were overwritten, though I couldn't say exactly why one person copes one way and another another.


Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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7 minutes ago, Tewi said:

That's an interesting idea, and while it is the case sometimes (possibly often), it's not always the case, if that's what you're asking. A lot of the times, tulpas are simply a neutral thing. Just another person, and relationships develop pretty normally. But yes, there are frequent cases where what you said could apply, too, it's just not a rule.

 

Haven't heard of the latter thing because we don't look into this stuff, but your very last question doesn't seem right. I don't think tulpamancers' abilities to do anything were overwritten, though I couldn't say exactly why one person copes one way and another another.

 

Very true, not always the case. I think it could depend on the type of personality someone gives their tulpa and if the host's main intentions -whether conscious or unconscious- is for the tulpa to cheer them up. That last question was because it can seem like people want alters, especially with the whole switching/possession thing..? Like they want to be able to let someone else take over in the same way an alter would, but they weren't able to at the same level as someone with DID due to trauma not affecting them in the same way. Brains are weird. I'm just spitballing here, I read a schema therapy book and it's infiltrating a lot of my thoughts lately lol.

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Oh, there are a few people here and there that want a tulpa to permaswitch with them, sure. That's not terribly common though, and we try to discourage it, opting instead to encourage hosts to work with their tulpas to improve their overall mindset and mental health. The majority of systems who switch do it just for the tulpa to be able to have their own experiences, share the life with their host, or sometimes take care of things the tulpa may be better at than the host, like school.

Edited by Tewi

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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3 hours ago, Coaster said:

tulpamancy is like reverse DID. People with DID compartmentalize negative emotions and memories, but with tulpae you're compartmentalizing positive emotions (because tulpae generally have their host's best intentions at heart) and you're maintaining a relationship with that positivity.


Thinking of tulpamancy as compartmentalizing positive emotions is an interesting way to look at it. When my host accidentally created us, it was an excuse to "talk to herself" without getting immediately sucked into self-hatred. On the other hand, I'm not a happy-go-lucky butterfly either. I may have been more like that when I was younger, but now that I'm more developed I'm more well rounded than I was.

I would be cautious when comparing DID to tulpamancy, while both have some overlap there's a lot of fundamental differences between the two.

 

3 hours ago, Coaster said:

I may try that as well because in the past I've had a hard time believing the logic against irrational intrusive thoughts, maybe I'll believe my buddies instead.

 

Creating a new tulpa just to deal with intrusive thoughts is unnecessary, but working together as a team can help.
 

4 hours ago, Coaster said:

And while I'm here, I'd like to ask if any of you have heard of the Theory of Structural Dissociation? I think I've seen emotional personalities referred to here as "masks" and "aspects of yourself" and people talk about multiplicity but I don't see this specific framework of dissociation mentioned. Structural dissociation can be used to explain not only DID, but also PTSD, C-PTSD, BPD, and OSDD. (Though non-mentally ill people have mild structural dissociation too, like thinking of themselves as Work Bob and Home Bob and Dad Bob, and it's healthy!).

 

You may be interested in reading this thread: https://community.tulpa.info/topic/15163-mask-tulpas-a-rare-tulpa-origin/
 

I don't completely agree with that model of explaining how tulpas or alters work. I'm more than just some version of my host who's online all the time, likes English, and has a thing for hippos. I'm also not one of my host's emotional states. 
 

4 hours ago, Coaster said:

It makes me wonder if people choose to create tulpae or imaginary friends due to something that overode their ability to fully dissociate and form alters?

 

You need trauma or a dissociative disorder to have extreme medical dissociation. Tulpamancy isn't a safety feature that can prevent DID.

Kids making imaginary friends is now called normal in the United States, and for some tulpamancers their tulpas were their imaginary friends all along. This has nothing to do with experiencing something traumatic.

Consider this: My host made tulpas out of desperation because she had no one to talk to about her pain, she was lonely, and she didn't want to talk to "herself" because she hated herself. But my host was not traumatized. We're autistic and my host was struggling in school, and she internalized her parent's frustration to the point where she used wonderlanding as a form of escapism. But she wasn't physically abused, her parents loved her, we live in a safe place, etc. My host used tulpamancy as a coping method, but there was no risk of her dissociating because there was nothing traumatic for her to experience.

Trauma in of itself does not always cause a dissociative disorder, but if you have a dissociative disorder you almost always have a trauma history, especially if you have DID / OSDD.
 

2 hours ago, Coaster said:

 I think it could depend on the type of personality someone gives their tulpa and if the host's main intentions -whether conscious or unconscious- is for the tulpa to cheer them up. That last question was because it can seem like people want alters, especially with the whole switching/possession thing..?

 

When my host joined the forums, she wasn't interested in tulpamancy for switching, her mindset was never "I want an alter". Her goal was to make sure I was happy and healthy since at the time, we didn't feel safe in our own head. Controlling the body was something I wanted to experience once I decided I wanted to explore that, and as I developed I wanted to learn switching.
 

2 hours ago, Tewi said:

or sometimes take care of things the tulpa may be better at than the host, like school.

 

I do this only if it's something I like more. I like to clean more than my host does. I like English class more than my host does. We both share a body and I want to do my own things, so why not let me do it instead?

 


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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Thanks for your perspective Ranger, and thanks for the link to Piano's post I think I'm understanding the differences better now. 

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I am going to echo Ranger, in being extremely weary about a theoretic framing that compares Tulpamancy to anything in the DSM 5. People have a wide range of experiences, hallucinations if you wish to be clinically precise, but not everyone that has an experiences gets a DSM V label. Also, there are may ways to frame 'experiences' than 'hallucinations,' or even malfunctions. In short- "experiences" are not limited to dysfunctional mental health syndromes. People have a wide range of experiences, from negative to positive. It usually only those with negative experiences that seek assistance, either from MH or from their cultural spiritual advisor. The people that have pleasant experiences tend not to go seeking assistance. And too many don't want to disclose at all for fear of the stigma associated with hearing things and seeing things.  Further, I would suggest to you that the practice of Tulpamancy itself is actually evidence for being healthy, or better adjusted than even the person engaging the practice might allow for in themselves. In contrast, DID is clearly a dysfunction- in as much as the majority of people that experience this also tend to have life disruptions, especially in the beginning of the disorder which is what leads to the diagnosis. Can a person have DID and not be officially diagnosed? Sure. But I would also argue, if they didn't get a legitimate diagnosis it's because either so high functioning that the disorder is not a disorder, or their life hasn't hit rock bottom yet, or it's not DID! All of that to say, I would not call tulpamancy the opposite side of the spectrum, as I would not even put it on the same continuum, or even put it in a frame work that makes it a disorder. Can people who engage tulpamancy have a MH disorder? Sure. I own my past labels, and recognize the significance of those in context to the illness and the life disruption. I have had years of dysthymia with intermittent MDD. In hind sight, I can make an argument for untreated PTSD.

 

I do like the direction of your thoughts, though. When I consider how I started this practice I did go out of my way to solicit very specific, positive attributes. I wouldn't say that I lacked these qualities and or that I was building a better ideal person, but I chose I qualities I admire. I may have sought the 'ideal' companion for me, but that was more blind luck. I wanted someone on par with me, or a little better, but no so high that i could only dream- which would perpetuate my loneliness. I do compartmentalize rather well.

 

You seem knowledgeable about MH stuff. That's cool. I am not surprised by Structural Dissociation, as that has been a primary feature, in some form of another, ever since Freud put psychology on the mainstream map. It seems funny to me that science is frequently looking to divide, break down, and names the constituent parts, as opposed to focusing on the holistic way we are organized. We are not self in isolation, we are selves in a context, social context, cultural, family, temporal- this is the mainstay of the system therapist's understanding of the world. Why would our psyche being any less complex? Same above, same below seems quite apt here.

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Sorry, it really wasn't my intention to cause drama or make people angry, I should've given this topic a second thought before posting. I have a habit of being insensitive without realizing that I'm trying to work on. I don't know as much as everyone else so I should keep my mouth shut. You guys have heard this comparison way too much.

 

16 minutes ago, solarchariot said:

Further, I would suggest to you that the practice of Tulpamancy itself is actually evidence for being healthy, or better adjusted than even the person engaging the practice might allow for in themselves

 

That was my main thought, that tulpamancy can be good for people. I shouldn't have referred to DID, I was trying to express that there can be positive and negative experiences (this was what I meant by reverse) that can be separated from the main consciousness in order to benefit the host, and that seperating positive experiences from the "self" could unexpectedly be beneficial when there's contact with it.

 

I know a fair amount about MH partly due to the fact I have several diagnosed mental illnesses, but mainly due to my hypochondria where I research/think I have every illness under the sun lol.

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From my years of in-person interaction with several traumagenic multiple systems, including eight years of marriage to two alters of a traumagenic system, I can attest that their experiences have a great deal in common with the experiences of soulbonding and tulpamantic systems. I believe that the scientific study of late onset nontraumagenic plurality could do a great deal to advance treatment of the undesirable components of early onset traumagenic plurality, which has been held back for decades by a large number of false assumptions.

 

Established multiple systems will sometimes choose to create tulpas. People who assume that they are singletons will sometimes awaken or discover pre-existing alters (or soulbonds) by taking up tulpamancy. Members of tulpamantic systems can sometimes shield thoughts and memories from one another. Alters sometimes can't, in spite of fully distinct identities.

 

I agree with SC that it is better to avoid stigmatizing medical language with regard to tulpamancy. But I am willing to go a step further and say that one can reduce the use of stigmatizing medical language with regard to traumagenic multiples as well. Since 1994, empowered multiples, both traumagenic and endogenic, have been proclaiming online, "Who we are as people is not a disease."

 

I would consider tulpamancy less a reversal of multiplicity than a variation on the same theme.

 

Compartmentalization could be taken to imply separating out pre-existing elements into separate boxes, as in the example of hiding away a traumatic memory where only one alter has access. But tulpas and soulbonds are often made out of primarily new material -- personality traits, emotional palettes, and behavioral patterns that have not existed in the system before. And just as any close group of friends will influence one another, some of this new material may then be picked up by other members of the system.

 

-Ember


I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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i agree that tulpamancy and DID seem to have a lot in common. i used to think that since young brains have so many more neuron and are far more neuroplastic, trumagenic systems are bacically somewhat tulpa systems but the need to section of the truma memories and the inevetable ability to dissociate had super forced these alters. although comparing a wonderful practise like this to a super stigmatised disorder is not helpful to both types of multiplicity.

i think its important that while tulpamancy is different to DID, the skills we learn here like switching and possesion looks a lot like it and we cant just dismiss them. there are a lots of things tulpamancy can pick up from other systems

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