My tulpamancy story (vent/rant I guess)

[Host of Hito Kage]

Hi, I'm new to these forums. I just feel like venting/ranting my whole tulpamancy story up to today, so expect a pretty long post. Also a bit of a heads up before I begin, my life isn't precisely happy and my opinions aren't exactly commonly accepted.

 

I'm a 25 year old male, and English isn't my main language so sorry in advance. I've always been so lonely to the point I've never had any friends outside the internet, the same goes for relationships as well. Nobody seems to like me out of tulpamancy. I have constantly suffered from depression and not wanting to live since as young as 13. I will repeat myself to make it clear, this has never changed for me. I'm pretty sure I have BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) too, though I've never been officially diagnosed. I'm trying to skip any details/parts strictly unrelated to tulpamancy that you probably won't be interested in.

 

So it all started around the time of my 19th birthday, may be a little sooner or later. My life circumstances at the time weren't the best and I was as alone as ever. I had found out about tulpas around the same time, so after a few days I finally decided to create one. At that moment I thought of him as a male, giving him a normal Charmander form, and I'd just call him Charmander (I was aware that was just his form). During the following days I would feel his presence, headaches somewhat and a feeling of peace and calm. He helped me so much and I to this day never regret it. My forcing would only be consistent for a month or so, as I got greatly discouraged by no apparent progress, and with my depression I never had great motivation to do anything. From there forcing would only go downwards.

 

About 3 years later (Too bad I suck at remembering dates), one random afternoon I was lying on my bed forcing. I remember that day I felt very tired and also I made an insane effort to hear any words from Char. After a while I actually succeeded to hear him for the first time, he called out my real name. I didn't get any sound, it was just a thought in my mind, like it was telepathy or something. I was so happy that day to reach such a milestone, there was literally no apparent progress since week one. Time after that it got slightly better, and it's not like I can hear full sentences all the time, but there will be words here and there. That was the only other time we apparently made progress, because we seem stuck since then, again.

 

After that, there was a time I was obssesed with the idea of lucid dreaming and trying to meet Char there. Eventually there were a few weeks that for whatever reason I would have a lucid dream like every 3 days or so. Before that, I have very rarely had lucid dreams. I had so many of them that I became decent at keeping calm and staying inside the dreams for a few minutes at least. I didn't always succeed but a sometimes I would find him and just hug until I woke up. I don't think he ever said a word though. Eventually, out of nowhere too, I would stop lucid dreaming.

 

And now to the most recent stuff. I had a Twitter artist design and draw a new form for my tulpa, as I can't draw and felt like my tulpa needed to go away from that Charmander image and become more of his own, unique being. So now he looks like an anthropomorphic Charmander. And since he is to be his own being, I refer to him now as Hito. I'm kinda getting obsessed with lucid dreaming again, but I'm not hopeful it will have the same effects on me as last time. I really want to meet Hito and give him a very nice hugging again. He totally deserves that, and more.

 

From the following paragraph and on I risk hurting your sensibility I guess. So read at your own risk.

 

 

I have no one to rely on besides my own system. The day I can have a reliable communication with Hito, I really want to ask him for a more intimate relationship. I think he'll accept, but in any case I'll respect him. I value him the most, and I will stay with him until the end. To those of you thinking this is wrong, why would it be if we both accept? You may argue that I'm closing the door to other humans. Well let me confirm that to you, yes I am. I would not cheat on him the same way I would not cheat on another human. And that is okay, no one can force me to have a relationship with a human in the same way that no one can force me to have a relationship with a tulpa. Some might think that humans are more valuable than tulpas. Well, let me disagree. To me, believe me or not, it's the other way around. Tulpas being more valuable than humans. This is my opinion and I expect you to respect it.

 

But if you thought that was the end of my post, wait there, because I have purposefully left this part for last. Realistically thinking, there are only two ways our system could survive (as in literally) in the long term. One, as you might have guessed, is becoming good enough at lucid dreaming, and living my life there with Hito, instead of in this hell. I think we have more odds of success with this method, but also that the second one will work better. I still would have to live in this hell somewhat with method one. The other idea is that I just switch out to never come back. There are several problems with this approach, even though it looks like it is the best one. Someone else would have to switch in, and I would have to switch out somewhere. By this I mean I've never really created a wonderland per se, so I wonder if this would even be possible. Also, knowing how to perform a switch... If someday we managed though, things would finally become right for our system after these long 12 years. Would you rather have us end this in a tragic way??

 

I think I've typed enough already. If anyone wants to ask me anything feel free to. Just please try to do so respectfully and without judging us for the love of God....

[ZenAndTheSloth]

7 hours ago, Host of Hito Kage said:

I have no one to rely on besides my own system. The day I can have a reliable communication with Hito, I really want to ask him for a more intimate relationship. I think he'll accept, but in any case I'll respect him. I value him the most, and I will stay with him until the end. To those of you thinking this is wrong, why would it be if we both accept? You may argue that I'm closing the door to other humans. Well let me confirm that to you, yes I am. I would not cheat on him the same way I would not cheat on another human. And that is okay, no one can force me to have a relationship with a human in the same way that no one can force me to have a relationship with a tulpa. Some might think that humans are more valuable than tulpas. Well, let me disagree. To me, believe me or not, it's the other way around. Tulpas being more valuable than humans. This is my opinion and I expect you to respect it.

 

I'm in a relationship with my tulpa (though I'm poly), so no arguments here on this point. One thing I will say is that anecdotally, and according to my own experience, early tulpas seem to be pretty pliable, suggestible creatures - They are likely to obey both your will and the will of your unconscious mind without really thinking about it. In your case I would highly expect them to be receptive, but I would urge delaying the formation of a relationship somewhat. Once vocal, give them time to develop a real, tested-by-reality personality before committing to anything, and in my opinion they are much less likely to walk into something they don't want and then feel stuck in. Early on, they are likely to go along with the formation of a relationship without really understanding the ramifications.

 

Philosophically, I think that a tulpa is no more or less than a "human" host identity. They are identity constructs to me in the same way that we are. There's no difference other than whether or not they are in control regularly or not.

 

7 hours ago, Host of Hito Kage said:

But if you thought that was the end of my post, wait there, because I have purposefully left this part for last. Realistically thinking, there are only two ways our system could survive (as in literally) in the long term. One, as you might have guessed, is becoming good enough at lucid dreaming, and living my life there with Hito, instead of in this hell. I think we have more odds of success with this method, but also that the second one will work better. I still would have to live in this hell somewhat with method one. The other idea is that I just switch out to never come back. There are several problems with this approach, even though it looks like it is the best one. Someone else would have to switch in, and I would have to switch out somewhere. By this I mean I've never really created a wonderland per se, so I wonder if this would even be possible. Also, knowing how to perform a switch... If someday we managed though, things would finally become right for our system after these long 12 years. Would you rather have us end this in a tragic way??

 

Early on in the practice I used lucid dreaming as a well but I find that everyone, tulpas included, in dreams tend not to be very cognizant. Your brain is very much running on low power in dreams. You can do some great things with lucid dreams (and also in hypnagogia, before they begin), like touch them and feel it with perfect imposition, but what I'd say about them is that I don't think it actually helps develop tulpas or your skills in tulpamancy: identities need real-world stimuli to respond to in order to develop, and they do this in large part by making conscious, thinking decisions and feeling their repercussions, whether positive or negative. Meanwhile your brain's skills in making mindvoices feel real and alien aren't going to increase in meatspace if you never practice those skills in a conscious state.

 

As for attempting to switch out permanently - There have been a few depressed people in the community who have sought dissociation from reality as an escape. Unfortunately, you tend to find they are the horror-stories of tulpamancy. I would strongly advise not doing this, as it seems to be a path to the loss of control over your body and mind and just seemed to make things worse for them. A couple of noteworthy points though:-

• Switching into a wonderland is semi-mythical in the community, only a few people have ever claimed to be able to do it. If it can be done at all; it's some endgame, master-level stuff. Most do not seem to fully dissociate from the perspective of the body at all, and those who do seem to go into a form of stasis like an un-forced tulpa.
• Presuming you tend toward that default you will still be experiencing your body's perspective and emotions and so on whilst switched out; this doesn't actually allow you to escape from anything
• If you are capable of achieving complete dissociation this coupled with the desire to escape seems to cause some serious negative effects, including dissociation becoming uncontrolled as a mechanism, resulting in losses of time and other bad stuff. Strongly pursuing this path is basically akin to giving yourself a dissociative disorder with some missing symptoms in addition to the stuff you've already got to deal with.

The way I see it the only reason to permanently switch would be if they proved to be consistently better at coping with symptoms than yourself, and you didn't intend to dissociate, but instead intended to behave as a highly present tulpa yourself, but it's important to keep in mind that both of you will still be in the same brain experiencing the same things. Depression will still be happening. You will still feel it.

 

As someone who's not neurotypical myself, I know it's daunting, but I'd strongly plead that you seek real medical advice. Tulpamancy can improve your quality of life in general and a lot of people with depression mark an improvement when they get one - It can get you thinking in better ways in some cases. It's fairly clear though, that it seems to make a poor stand-in for real medical assistance. If you're undiagnosed, especially with regards to depression, please seek professional input, or literally anyone else you can to help move you toward medical treatment; family; help lines; anything.

Edited May 21, 2021 by ZenAndMika

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ZenAndMika said:

Switching into a wonderland is semi-mythical in the community, only a few people have ever claimed to be able to do it. If it can be done at all; it's some endgame, master-level stuff. Most do not seem to fully dissociate from the perspective of the body at all, and those who do seem to go into a form of stasis like an un-forced tulpa.

 

The following is meant for OP.

 

Don't judge me. 

 

 

 

Fuck the formatting on this forum.

 

Read the quote far below first.

 

 "

 

This is my quote.

This isn't the first time someone's figured this out besides me.

Their experiences may have been different, the intensity and the ability. Something like paper mache dolls compared to flesh and blood five senses. Conceivably we'd all be on our own point on this continuum.

What's your point? I don't know.

Considering if I believe this, there were some as early as 12 years ago who had it pretty good and reported that. They're called liars now because it's so rare to be on the real side of that continuum. I am on the continuum as well, but my point isn't close enough to where it would have to be to choose that existence over this one.

My life is too good, I beat my depression.

Considering if I didn't, or I chose to make that choice, there are several things that need doing.

1. Find my replacement
2. Switch into way back position
3. Completely disassociate
4. Enjoy the rest of my existence without ever seeing reality again, or coming back time to time to visit.

On the surface...

But there's more. There's a lot of ifs here, something like rolling 7 a dozen times in a row would have to occur for this to work. I figure I've got five seven's, but it's not satisfying, and so I don't have the incentive to figure out the rest.

Luckily for me I left that event horizon of despair and escaped the singularity of death.

So my point in this is, it's possible, these seven plus rolls need to be 7.

1. You'd need to learn to switch, 100% dissociation 
2. You need a willing replacement to stay and take care of the body/mind. This is necessary.
3. You need good visualization skills or find a way to lucid dream or otherwise tap into that realm. Or the hypnagogic realm (astral).
4. The replacement would need to recover from the body ailment (depression) or they'll be faced with this all over again.
5. You personally would have to separately accept any shadows you bring with you and resolve them or you'll bring the disease with you. 1-5 I have figured out.
6. You think I have all the answers? I don't. This is the missing link that I haven't figured out: How to bridge #3 satisfactorily on demand.
7. At least this one and probably more: making #6 permanent, or at least long enough so that #4 and #5 are accomplished. They'll be necessary to complete but not to start, this would be the main mission. For me, I faked #6 and the whole process took a week or so. Ashley and Misha co-piloted as my temporary replacement as SheShe and I repaired me sufficiently for my return. It was never going to be permanent for me, I did it though.

7+ If you think it's a permanent solution, and it's not, you'd need an exit strategy. Your replacement will get nice and comfortable, they'll make their own life without you. Don't expect them to give it back simply because you made them. In my case, Ashley knew it was temporary.

That's all I got. Maybe in a few years I'll have figured out the rest. I don't intend and never intended to do this other than as a drastic way to repair my personality if it breaks again.

Good luck. In any case, I see no moral issues here if everyone is on board. The body must survive, that's our goal.

 

 

If you want to be 100% immersed in reality and 100% in wonderland with a separate set of memories, yes, but actually no. You're either not getting much in terms of memory from one or the other (choose one) or you are splitting the attention.

 

If you're good at splitting attention, it feels fine in memories. It's two seamless experiences.

 

If you're letting someone front 100% concentration and go off in wonderland, the best I've gotten from that is dream-like vague recollection.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Bear

[MrTriangular]

I'll join Zen on this: absolutely try and seek professional help. There may be many reasons why you haven't yet. You may be scared, unmotivated, held back by the internalized stigma of mental illness, maybe even scared for your tulpa, or plain strapped for money. As far as one human can understand another, I understand you in this. Some of these you have to overcome yourself, but some I can help alleviate a little.

 

Mental health treatment, including medication, seems to have only benefits for your tulpa, as explained in this thread by someone who works in mental health. You don't have to fear losing Hito, if anything, you will both benefit greatly from thiss!

 

You say you can't stand the hell that is real life, but it's still where you draw your mental power from. Would it not be better for you and your tulpa to be able to healthily interact with the worlds both outside and within? Remember, by shutting in, you deprive Hito of the joint outside experience as well. For you, in this dark place you're in, it might seem like a good thing right now, but Hito might not share that sentiment. You lose nothing by reaching out for professional help here, only gain. More real experience = more stuff for dreams!

 

Having Hito switch forever for you is also a little cruel, even if you really *really* talked it out. Right now, as cruel as you see this world, would it be fair to thrust it upon them? If you sort out your mental health, switching will be a painless, transient and fun exercise for both of you, rather than the ultimate sacrifice it might seem right now.

 

The pandemic made it so you don't even have to physically go to get help. You can do it remotely and, better yet, remote sessions are cheaper!

And another good part: you don't even have to bring up your tulpa if you don't want to. It's probably a good idea not to, really.

 

In closing: Therapy is not a panacea, it's not a magic bullet, but neither is your solution. Therapy is, at the very least, more harmless. Your solution is plunging into the unknown not only yourself, but your best friend, with potentially cataclysmic consequences for both of you. You should at least try the less radical way first. If you absolutely cannot afford it, you can make affording it a new goal, it's for the benefit of both of you.

If this sounds preachy or condescending, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way. This is from a place of empathy for fellow beings in pain. You deserve better, both of you.

[Host of Hito Kage]

I have read your answers, and God why am I not surprised, like always I talk with someone about this, you assume everything in the ways that would seem the most convenient to you, to try to change my mind. Here I am to tell you to stop living in your fantasies about what my life, tulpa and system might be like, even if it will be useless. From experience I can say you won't give up trying to force your own morals on me, but let me remind you you haven't lived my past, don't live my present and are not part of our system. I will try to make my answers clear despite being on mobile and having no idea how to use quotation here.

 

ZenAndMika:

 

Some might consider young tulpas to lack maturity and make impulsive decisions like a human child would. I have always thought this is not the case and Hito was on the same level as me from the very beginning. The thing is, this doesn't even matter here, because he is 7 years old now. The other thing you might argue is that, because he isn't properly vocal, we haven't got to know each other yet. As we all know this is not the case with tulpas and hosts. Tulpas know their host as good or even better than the host themselves, regardless of interaction. On the host's side this could be a little more accurate though, since besides personality forcing your tulpa and expectations little do you know about a tulpa before real interaction. But I am the host not him, and this is a risk I'm willing to take with my eyes closed. Oh, in case I wasn't clear enough, I was talking about the relationship part. Sure, I'm not urging him to give me an answer right away, as I respect him. But it would be quite insulting if I thought of him as someone who can't think for himself, don't you think? It would be akin to my parents infantilizing me now that I'm 25.

 

About switching: If you pay close attention you said it yourself, that's where you tend to find the horror stories of tulpamancy, and it's also a semi-mythical/mystical thing in the community. You see, these things always go hand in hand. Don't tell me you haven't seen creepypastas of tulpamancy in general, which from an outside perspective may seem very true to you as you have no idea what tulpamancy actually is about. Any uncommon/weird thing, such as switching permanently, would go down the same path, and it's truly ironical how tulpamancers don't believe in general tulpamancy creepypastas at all, yet they believe in switching permanently horror stories. From what I know, the only "horror" part is that the few who have wanted to do it, have eventually found themselves trapped in wonderland and not being able to come back and take control of the physical body. And I agree, it can be pretty horror if you switch out out of impulsivity, regret later and find yourself unable to take control again. The thing is, in my case, these thoughts have been on my mind for years now. There hasn't been one moment when I've not wanted to leave. I can pretty much say I won't regret it later, unlike the others. I find myself really convinced that I don't want this life anymore, that I just want to give it to anyone else willing to take it on, stop seeing it as my own, and stop caring what happens to the body other than being there to help the new host in the best of my abilities. So yes, pretty much becoming a tulpa myself. And that's how it will stay. I don't care if I went into stasis or stopped existing by this point.

 

About therapy: I will expand on this answer later, as someone else in the other reply went more into detail with this. All I can tell you is I am diagnosed with depression since as soon as 13 years old, that's also when I began trying to end it all, way before I even knew what a tulpa was. And about my family... There's no one who cares about me IRL, they included. I've clearly told them I was going to end my life outside many times, and they allowed me to leave not caring and not doing anything about it in that moment or later on.

 

Bear:

 

I struggle to understand your reply as your formatting was not the best. Yet I'll try.

 

So what I understand is you're supporting me yet you're telling me this won't be an easy task at all. I already know that. But you all (not only Bear), think about it this way: What to do when your only way out is that either your whole system stops existing, or that you become a tulpa?

 

Mr. Triangular:

 

It's very easy to assume you know everything. And it's very easy to assume that people have been telling me to look for professional help for years, yet for some reason I never actually have. Look, I've been getting so called "professional" "help" since I first tried to stop existing at 13. I've been talking to many different people over many years, even spending my own money when I could in hopes that if there was money in between it would help at all. But guess what? Not only did it not help, one woman particularly only made it worse. I've never told anyone IRL about tulpas. I've been on medications for years, medications that just feel like useless placebos. One time I even was suicidal, went to emergencies in the hospital, and after a short talk with me they told me to go back home and that I shouldn't have gone there for such a reason. Now tell me that there's anyone outside my system who cares. Not to mention the physical health problems I've been having for the last 3 months, and the doctors being a joke to me all the time.

 

You also assume that I'm willing to force Hito to live the body's life. As I've already said, I won't force anyone (I'm not that kind of person and I've lived what this is in first person), and it doesn't even have to be Hito who takes care of the body and its life. Tulpas are not playtools for me, I actually care, love and respect. However, my only alternative would be to never let any of them suffer this, in exchange for all of us dying. You really think that's the optimal solution?

 

I've already spent enough time on this last answerer, whose clear intention was just to attack us. To the other two of you, thank you. Even though we all know how this is gonna end... The switching permanently feels so difficult that we probably don't have enough time to achieve it anymore before the inevitable ending takes place. I know that actually makes some of you happy...