Who would you choose?

[Kiahdaj]

 

please explain

 

If you make a clone of me, it has a separate conscious. It may be just like me, but, given the fact that he is technically in a different scenario (standing in a different spot of the room, therefore seeing things in another perspective), he will think different things than I do.

It is not possible for any two individual beings (my clone and me) to be in the exact same scenario. People make decisions based on which scenario they are in; and since he is in a different one, he will make different decisions than me, sometimes.

I think a being is defined by the conscious, and not by anything "physical". So I still believe that we're the same people, after 10 years (granted, we may have matured and such, and changed personality completely, but we are still that person).

As soon as a clone is made of me, we are in separate shoes, so you can't say that he is completely identical to me.

 

 

 

 

Now, as for the sock, and ship analogy; I'm someone who views the concept of "what it is" from a non-physical standpoint. So I believe the sock is still that sock, because it wasn't the material that defined that sock to you, in the first place. You looked at it, and thought of it as your favorite sock, not as some nice black sock.

So after it is worn, and torn, and you end up replacing the whole thing; the concept of it being your favorite sock still remains (unless you don't like it anymore, in which case, it is not). Same with the ship. The ship had a name, and that's what that ship was. That ship wasn't the wood it was made of. It was the way it was seen by its captain. So you can replace all the wood you want, but it is still his ship. And if you take all the original wood from that ship, and build another from it, it is not the first ship, because no one would see it that way. They would see it as an imitation, or a "second".

[412]

 

If you make a clone of me, it has a separate conscious. It may be just like me, but, given the fact that he is technically in a different scenario (standing in a different spot of the room, therefore seeing things in another perspective), he will think different things than I do.

It is not possible for any two individual beings (my clone and me) to be in the exact same scenario. People make decisions based on which scenario they are in; and since he is in a different one, he will make different decisions than me, sometimes.

I think a being is defined by the conscious, and not by anything "physical". So I still believe that we're the same people, after 10 years (granted, we may have matured and such, and changed personality completely, but we are still that person).

As soon as a clone is made of me, we are in separate shoes, so you can't say that he is completely identical to me.

 

Then he is not identical to you in every way. (your previous post implied he was.)

[Kiahdaj]

 

Then he is not identical to you in every way. (your previous post implied he was.)

 

Well.. I guess that's just my way of saying "It is not possible for any two beings to be completely identical".

[Oguigi]

I agree two beings cannot be completely identical.

[412]

I agree two beings cannot be completely identical.

 

Well.. I guess that's just my way of saying "It is not possible for any two beings to be completely identical".

 

i'm pretty sure we all agree on that

[Virgil]

I'm one of those people who hate going to sleep, because I lose my train of thought.

That's almost exactly what one of my friends said about epileptic seizures.

 

Incidentally, I haven't stated my opinion regarding the original topic. Honestly, I don't know, but I'd probably not waver if the person to be killed off were my father.

 

As for completely identical, it's like a set of Lebesgue measure 0. Insignificant. Or absolute certainty outside mathematical logic. Virtually unattainable.

What good is a term defined so that what it describes can't possibly occur in reality? Only one answer comes to mind: philosophical debates.

Yep, everyone is different. Everyone is unique. But there is always some extent to which people are similar.

 

Coming up next: Free will, quantum consciousness, and after that *beat*

QUALIA!

*GASP!* Because it is serious business.

[Phi]

 

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/33/12219.full claims:

our neocortical neurons, the cell type that mediates much of our cognition, are produced prenatally and retained for our entire lifespan

 

That was interesting, but I have a problem with it. Mainly that it puts in huge, bold blue letters, as if to really try to convince you that they are right, "THESE CELLS ARE NOT REPLACED!"

Then, right below it, it says:

"The two-pronged experimental approach clearly establishes (i) that there is little or no continuous production of new neurons for long-term addition to the human neocortex and (ii) that there are few if any new neurons produced and existing transiently in the adult human neocortex."

They go on to explain further that there could be a little bit of replacing, and that there could be replacing that isn't continuous, 24/7.

 

Thanks for the article, though. Interesting read.

[Virgil]

 

That was interesting, but I have a problem with it. Mainly that it puts in huge, bold blue letters, as if to really try to convince you that they are right, "THESE CELLS ARE NOT REPLACED!"

Then, right below it, it says:

"The two-pronged experimental approach clearly establishes (i) that there is little or no continuous production of new neurons for long-term addition to the human neocortex and (ii) that there are few if any new neurons produced and existing transiently in the adult human neocortex."

They go on to explain further that there could be a little bit of replacing, and that there could be replacing that isn't continuous, 24/7.

 

Thanks for the article, though. Interesting read.

 

I've noticed that, too, and it's something I would expect from a PopSci magazine like SciAm, and not a scientific journal. It doesn't matter anyway; the blue text is just practical generalisation.

PNAS is a respectable scientific journal, which will soon celebrate its 100th anniversary. I, personally, place confidence in its veracity, and I'm prety sure the stuff is legit.

[Sock]

I asked my tulpa this question, more accurately, how she would feel if I sacrificed a human life to keep her. She responded with this:

 

"It's one of the only things that would make me hate you."

 

There you go, I guess.