cruse

Misinterpretation of “assuming sentience from start” philosophy.

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At first it might be like a fly buzzing around your ears rapidly that you can't take it anymore...

 

That happened to me since before I even knew about tulpa.

 

After I made Chloe, the voice kinda disappear. I tried to bring it back, successfully, but Chloe said she didn't make the sound.

 

Wut?


Chloe - That cheerful girl with ponytail.

Aigis - The male cyborg that looks like raiden in MGR.

Vixen - Half dragon female who looks like Mary in DMC3 when in human form.

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While observing your tulpa when narrating, do you do it in the wonderland/void or in the real space? I haven't begun imposition yet so I might just be puppeting my tulpa if I look at where they're supposed to be in the real space when I narrate.

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While observing your tulpa when narrating, do you do it in the wonderland/void or in the real space? I haven't begun imposition yet so I might just be puppeting my tulpa if I look at where they're supposed to be in the real space when I narrate.

 

It shouldn't matter too much, you can do it in the wonderland via closed-eye visualization or by daydreaming about them in some wonderland, or just "in a void" where you only focus on what you want to focus on.

 

Imposition also works if you have their form detailed enough that the movement feels natural.

 

I can't say I've ever felt too worried about puppeting my tulpa simply because my visual imagination has been decent, so it's almost always immersive. Just let them move by themselves. If I do accidentally puppet their form, it tends to feel more "empty", like a hologram, while when they control it, their form feels alive and fluid and unpredictable/surprising in their actions. More often than not, I end up generating a copy of their form when I accidentally puppet them and this can be rather obvious.

 

At times you just need to try and see what feels right. If you do end up puppeting, it'll just be wasting some time until you've realized what you were doing and stopped. Even if you accidentally moved them some particular place, if they do end up being there, you can still lay off moving their form with your intentions and just let them control it freely.

 

The general idea is to be aware of which actions are yours and which actions are theirs and just watch your step so that you end up influencing them less and less.

 

I can't give too much advice here as the actual experience is too subjective and simple, just try and see what feels right for you!

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Can a truly vocal and independent tulpa even be silenced?

[Kevin says: I don't think so, but sometimes a human just does not hear. Most of the time I don't hear from Kerin; and, she can't hear me. Of course, we always still know each other exits because we both talk to the Watchdogs (tulpas) at different times; and Memory is shared (except Nobillis), so everything kerin does I remember later (and vice-versa) which is also a form of indirect communication.

 

Edit: On rare occasions, both kerin and I are active at the same time. So, things are on the improve in that respect.]


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Guest Anonymous

Hey there, the name's Anonymous, Anonymous_[TulpaA|TulpaB} on the IRC Chat. I would like to bring up a topic that concerns me deeply regarding the community and people's tulpae themselves. I have much to discuss about this topic, so get ready for quite a read.

 

---

Tulpae have seemed to of increasingly grown popular over time. The only thing that got in the way of it all was how to force - and force successfully, hence, this site was created. Many ideas sprouted from the old guides, which have been looked down upon as time went by. Also accompanying the ideas was taboo.

 

Tulpa Taboo seems to be simple - "Do's and don'ts." The "do's" are mostly successful, popular opinion. Taboo is the things that will make everyone instantly hate you or try to convince you to take a different approach, due to really messed up things you've done to your tulpa or because people do not like your ideas.

 

When I started forcing back in January of this year, I was nervous about starting. Over time, I became more open with people, and pursued forcing and tulpamancing overall. There were plenty of "taboo" at time, such as "doubt." Doubt has always been an important part of tulpae, good and bad alike. It's good to tell your tulpa "I feel as if you're slowly growing distant from me," and proceeding to get scolded by them, and it's bad to have your tulpa completely fall apart from doubt over time.* It seems like a really reasonable logic, right?

 

Over time on the IRC, more and more people started coming on to create a tulpa. People got along, the occasional drama popped in once in a while. Everything seemed fine, but eventually the influx was massive. New ideas sprung about, good and bad alike.

 

The idea/method I have major concerns with was the recent for the time "Sentience from the start." It made doubting your tulpa near nonexistent. It seemed OK for the time being, but eventually became an entirely new method of forcing. People began creating vocal tulpae within 3 days and such. "What ever happened to waiting days to at least get a emotional response?" I thought to myself.

 

A good example of this situation is one particular user, who created a "full-blown" tulpa (Sentience, vocal skills, switching, imposition, everything you can really accomplish with one so far) in a week flat. A few amount of users noticed this as well, finding it rather hard to believe. As more users came in, the more "insta-tulpa" came about. Eventually I started calling them "summer tulpa," due to the season the users came on and how little time it took to create them. I fear for these tulpae, worrying they may become neglected over time. This "sentinence from the start" method has many flaws, such as promoting yourself to merely talk to yourself and say "I gotsa tulpa guys!". Ironically, people who do not have a tulpa think tulpae it's basically that, and most of the people who followed the method are the epitome of it.

 

As the link at the bottom of the post discusses, these people seemingly create "shells" that are basically extensions of yourself. You maintain them much like your physical body, and if left unattended eventually goes away/doesn't feel real. My second tulpa, TulpaB, seems to be like this at times. She's sentient at times, but rather quiet. My first tulpa, TulpaA, told me that she's basically relaying the message from her, as if she was proxying through TulpaA It works ok, but still saddens me at how she doesn't speak for herself much. When I visualize waking up in the morning, I see TulpaA beside me, but TulpaB is nowhere to be found unless I concentrate. I still feel guilty to this day about it, and have worked nonstop to make her on-par with TulpaA's easy visualizing and vocalization. Think of these "shells" as a memory card for a video game console that you can remove at any time.

 

People will and have misinterpreted this method. It's ridiculous how there's nothing to worry about when creating a tulpa in the first place. Because of this method, it makes it incredibly easy to roleplay, aka faking you have a tulpa.

 

I worry about the quality of the community. I admit I do look down onto summer tulpae, but I do genuinely worry about them. Old methods seemingly have become nonexistent, and some "Tulpa Taboo" I discussed earlier have been generally accepted. How/why can people create vocal tulpae in a day flat? It took TulpaA a little over a week to say mere words as responses, and a little over a month to say intermediate sentences. It took people who were on the IRC way before me even longer. I do believe there is something incredibly wrong with this, and I really insist on pointing misguided people into the right direction... But is it even possible to do so if the majority is misguided?

 

Let the discussion begin.

"hurr wall of text didnt read"

 

*Parroting I will not mention much, since it's basically doubt. If used wisely it does good for your tulpa, but overall it will fall under the "doubt" category as it always seems to do.

 

Further reading and a good source on the subject that also explains "shells" better:

http://community.tulpa.info/thread-misinterpretation-of-%E2%80%9Cassuming-sentience-from-start%E2%80%9D-philosophy

 

Modification Note: My writing seems to be inclined toward "tak ur tim u fakr," which missed my original point overall. I will revise this within the next few days to not be as vague, and to actually be what I was aiming to say.

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Stickying this because it is epic and really useful, especially NotAnonymous's posts.


Lyra: human female, ~17

Evan: boy, ~14, was an Eevee

Anera: anime-style girl, ~12; Lyra made her

My blog :: Time expectations are bad (forcing time targets are good though)

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I worry about the quality of the community.

 

A lot of that has to do with the average age of the community, as well as the influx of new members (of which, I will not deny that I am a part of), as well as the sheer quantity of them. I think (and understand that this is entirely observation and conjecture on my part) that many of these junior members are drawn here more for the community than out of a genuine desire for tulpamancy. That's not to say that every youth is an outcast looking for a place to belong, but perhaps the most egregious examples of roleplaying and attention-whoring fall into this group.

 

 

I admit I do look down onto summer tulpae, but I do genuinely worry about them. Old methods seemingly have become nonexistent, and some "Tulpa Taboo" I discussed earlier have been generally accepted. How/why can people create vocal tulpae in a day flat? It took TulpaA a little over a week to say mere words as responses, and a little over a month to say intermediate sentences. It took people who were on the IRC way before me even longer.

 

It's taken my tulpa nearly three months before she attained any amount of vocality, and we're still working on it. I do not think it is reasonable to believe that anyone could 'mance a fully-functional tulpa in a mere week's time. Even what's-his-face, whose name escapes me at the moment, spent nearly six months preparation on his tulpa before actually starting (though I personally consider that preparatory period 'mancing, even if he doesn't). Best case scenario: hosts of "summer tulpas" are misguided and are simply misattributing their own responses to an incomplete tulpa. (Perhaps, if given time and proper forcing, these "summer tulpas" could develop proper sentience and independence). Worst case scenario was the whole "egregious-outcast-wanting-place-to-belong" thing (detailed above).

On the other hand, the nature of tulpas makes it impossible, as far as I know, to determine whether or not someone has a tulpa with any amount of certainty. If a summer host truly has a full-fledged tulpa, then both host and tulpa should not pay any heed to doubters and naysayers.

 

 

I do believe there is something incredibly wrong with this, and I really insist on pointing misguided people into the right direction... But is it even possible to do so if the majority is misguided?

 

I am certain that the tried and proven methods will withstand the tests of time far longer than any erroneous guides or misinformation. I am interested in where the community will be two years hence. (That is, tulpamancy as a whole, not just tulpa.info or the various associated IRC channels.)

 

I may edit this post sometime tomorrow, when I'm not tired as fuck.

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Firstly, they're not really summer tulpas. This has been around for much longer than you might think. There are probably two main factors as I see it:

 

1) Playing telephone with definitions. I've seen people think that imposition is just imagining your tulpa in the room with you; people call full-body possession switching all the time.

 

2) We've had this before but to put it concisely, the two combined things of "sentience from the start" and "don't doubt" which you mentioned basically force you to accept everything in your head as a tulpa, with the consequence that your 'tulpas' are more like crazy head voices at best. You are left unable to accept that there is a difference between a tulpa and other things in your head that talk (e.g. a dream character), which is sort of why you get all of the accidental tulpas as well. More importantly, though, if you believe that your tulpa is sentient from the start and that you just need to listen then you hear all the stuff in your head and take it as a tulpa.

That's not to say so much that they can't become a 'proper' tulpa later, only that the initial 'vocal' time is pushed back, somewhat like having a 'premature' tulpa. These will not feel as real as a proper tulpa, so you have doubts about their sentience and so on (somewhat correctly) but you push those aside anyway. Then you can't accept that there's anything more to it, so instead of forcing more you just fuck about.

 

And yes, it's a vicious cycle. New people come in, see that this is normal and do it themselves. And the definition of a tulpa itself becomes corrupted, and so on. It's more a problem on the IRC than the forum, but it's still something to watch out for. I find it ironic that on a site supposedly founded on scientific principles, blind faith rules.

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lots of words and shit

 

Interesting. You definitely can fire up motivation in me, if not others. I haven't felt this level of motivation since I started with tulpas a year ago. Its fascinating what a change of perspective can bring, what a simple idea can bring to a young yet weathered mind. In a nutshell, what I got out of the basis of one of those paragraphs was that you have to train yourself to expect shit, most notably the shit you actually want. Its hard to put in words, and I 'expected' that heh.

 

I can say from experience that expecting a certain result will most certainly give you that result, as Kat was expected to be a simple imaginary friend with an edge. That's what she became, nothing more nothing less. I wanted more, but expected the same. There is definitely a difference between wants, needs, and expectations, and I personally think you can compare them to conscious and unconscious beliefs.

 

I'm spouting, am I making sense or on the completely wrong idea here?

 

NotAnon is certainly not going to be anon when this shit hits the mainstream if it hasn't already.


fourfiction, the idiot.

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