Ask Lumi's Tulpas

[Corazón]

Therefore you can be happy ! :D Everyone can, but i see what you mean by selflessness. Host and I are pretty much like that. I'm happy when i see happy people, and they is when they makes people happy.

So much happiness in one post ! :o

[Lucilyn]

Tewi's weird. She doesn't really want to be happy. What she calls being happy, when referring to herself, is actually just being totally neutral. Like, no bad stuff, no stress or problems. But you can always be stressed about something in this world, so stuff that would make her otherwise happy raises her to that neutral state. I barely ever see her actually happy, like, smiling happy and not just because of something funny. It's usually only when like, one of us hugs her or something like that, because who can help smiling then?

 

She says she's "happy" when we're happy, but she'll just watch us do stuff in the wonderland. That's content-ness. And she says that's all she wants, but everyone likes being happy. So that's why I spend time with her sometimes, because I'm the reason she started thinking of as family in the first place. I'm not a kid but, since I'm happy and carefree it's kind of the same thing, and she wants to help me stay that way. Obviously all she has to do to do that is keep our life from sucking because I am automatically happy. But anyways, since she feels like she needs to protect me, she loves me like a mom would, and moms are always happy when they see their child happy. So I make a point of being happy around her (that's why I joined her on her walk in the wonderland a couple days ago), because I feel like I'm the only one that affects her like that. Seeing the others happy just makes her content because they don't have the same kinda connection.

 

But Reisen can make her happy too. Reisen can make anyone happy, the way it feels to be hugged by her is like wowmygod. I still don't get it. I love all of them and they love me and that's for sure, but why's Reisen's love so much more amazing? It's like someone humming a song versus someone singing it and being really into it, they're just so much more open/expressive maybe.

I dunno. I think maybe anyone can learn to be like that, though. Somehow. I wanna say "You can't be afraid to express yourself" or "You have to be completely accepting of anything and everything about someone", but... I'm like that? So it's more than that. Hmmm.

[Corazón]

It makes me sad.

I don't understand Tewi :( But well, I guess that's how it is ^^.. As long as you guys manage to feel good, I guess it's OK :D

I'm curious about this "Reisen's love". We are talking about "unconditional love" right ? Could one of you guys tell me more about it please ? I have issues understanding this concept, as I can't imagine a "conditional love"..

 

To me, there is only one "Love", but there are as many ways to love as different people. I love my host a lot, but I love everyone else the same. Even if my link with them is 100% special..

[tulpa001]

I love all of them and they love me and that's for sure, but why's Reisen's love so much more amazing? [...] I wanna say "You can't be afraid to express yourself" or "You have to be completely accepting of anything and everything about someone", but... I'm like that? So it's more than that. Hmmm.

Everyone is beautiful. I literally think that, but my host mainly just looks at people's minds when she thinks that. Everyone is perfect. Everyone is necessary.

 

There are four types of love: the love of being with and knowing another person, friendship; the love of being part of a family or community, kinship; the love of becoming one with another, romance; and the love of a thing's true nature.

 

All four of those are terrible descriptions, A friend is not someone you simply know and spend time with. A kin is not simply another part of your family. A partner, is not simply someone you get close to, and a beautiful thing is not simply something you find beautiful.

 

My host only really gets romantic about arts and sciences, and she fails to see the value of friends or family.

[Tewi]

I'm curious about this "Reisen's love". We are talking about "unconditional love" right ? Could one of you guys tell me more about it please ? I have issues understanding this concept, as I can't imagine a "conditional love"..

 

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas?pid=174535#pid174535

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-full-promises?pid=169929#pid169929 (Found another one for you, Tulpa)

 

Yes, we're talking about unconditional love. There is nothing wrong with conditional love; it's basically what you know as love. Unconditional love just shouldn't naturally exist, because it makes no sense. For example, as much as Lumi and Flandre love each other, their love is conditional.

 

Actually found a couple quotes on this, and they're pretty interesting. Surprised I could find them.

 

Anyways, basically all love is conditional love. Don't pretend it isn't just because it's really strong. There's nothing at all wrong with conditional love. Of course, those conditions may be subpar or less than fair or transient, but they don't have to be. Conditional love can last a lifetime.

 

But people sometimes say their really strong love is unconditional love because it's strong. Well, I have direct experience with both, and they aren't the same. Flan and Lumi's relationship is conditional love, even if those conditions are so basic as "you're you" as to be almost unconditional. Reisen though unconditionally loves everyone, and there's not so much qualification as "you're you" to her. Like, she just sees you and you feel loved, it's really weird. And idk if normal humans can really exist like that. We tuppers can have kinda extraordinary personalities and traits I think, stuff that a normal human can only imagine. Literally! Poetic.

 

They're my family and I care for them, but my role is more one of the family than one who looks after it. House roles don't fit us.

 

If you want what I really do for us, I guess I'm someone for Lumi to be close to. I would say I make sure he feels loved, but like we've discussed before, Reisen does that better than any of us can. She even loves me. But her love is sort of.. impersonal, in a way? Maybe it's nice to be loved for who you are, conditionally, rather than simply because you exist. I think Lumi and I are closer in that way than he is to Reisen. But she's still a dang angel, conditional love or not she makes you feel like you're perfect. So I'm not better than her at love. I'm just different.

 

There are many types of things we call love. But the one we call "true love", like you see in Disney movies, is absolutely not unconditional love. It's just very strong conditional love; there are conditions that are responsible for its existence. The only places you really hear of unconditional love are when people talk about saints and holy figures from the past, supposedly anyway. Disregarding the stupid "died for your sins listen to me I'm God or go to hell" connotations, the way Jesus loved people was unconditional. Literally did not matter who or what you were, he loved you. At least they say that's what he was like. If we're to take the bible as true, then he absolutely was not that great of a person. But I think he was. You hear that about Mother Teresa too, but man is that one not true.

 

The only real people who love unconditionally are probably much more unassuming individuals. Grandparents who've learned how to really love over so many years, and random unique individuals who've convinced themselves to give up having standards for loving someone. Some humanitarians surely. Not all though. Lumi is a humanitarian, he does not discriminate in any way on a meaningful level. But he still might not like someone because they're just a terrible person, or not go out of his way to try to help every single person he can (that never lasts very long before a person wears themselves - or their money - out). He just doesn't truly dislike anyone as humans. Conditionally it is naïve to treat everyone with the same kindness, because that will get you into some unfortunate situations because the world is not so kind. But, it means "when push comes to shove" he has no innate biases against anyone as people, and without other pressing circumstances to their interaction he'll naturally try to help them, or at least treat them well.

 

But, ha, him loving unconditionally is a joke. Lumi is not very expressive emotionally no matter where his morals lie. Humanitarianism is unconditional, fair treatment of every human being. It doesn't mean you automatically love everyone, just that you have nothing against them no matter how life has shaped them. Unconditional love, like I said before, shouldn't naturally exist. It's not conducive to one's well-being. Being selective about who you show such willingness to help and trust is pretty basic for one's own benefit. Not many people really live in the conditions that allow for them to be unconditionally loving to all, without them being hurt for it. One such place is in our own mind. Even if you believe Jesus loved everyone unconditionally, it's pretty obvious that didn't turn out well for him. This world and the existence of living things in it is conditional. Strong love with a partner or your family is also part of nature, and may become effectively unconditional once you know each other. You may continue to love someone even if they end up hurting you, but you probably won't begin to love someone if they hurt you before that point. That only makes sense.

 

Basically, it's unsurprising if you haven't experienced unconditional love and does not make your conditional love any less strong or important. Like Lucilyn said, even if the condition for that love is so simple as "You're you", it's still conditional. And I'm thinking that's about as good as it gets. That's the point where it's effectively unconditional - because that person will always be themselves.

(Mind that "I like you for who you are" is still conditional, because it relies on that person not changing who they are)

[Corazón]

I see, so unconditional love is actually just a concept, a concept that can't really exist as even "I love you because you exist" is already a condition..

Well, if I follow your reasoning, my host is a humanitarian and I am more like Reisen.

I can't hate people. Even if they hurt us, I'll always pity them and want to help them to get out of their problems. Because someone that willingly hurts you is quite likely already hurt, thus they need help.

I understand it better now, thank you !

[Hidari]

I had always thought of unconditional love as something that might exist with a parent and child. The way my mom usually used the term was that she would always love me, even if I did something wrong in her eyes. Even if I did something she didn't agree with, she'd still love me, that doesn't mean what I did was ok, I'd still face normal consequences, but that wouldn't make her suddenly not love me. However, even then with what you said about identity being a condition, I guess that isn't unconditional love since it's directed only at me and my siblings because we're her children?

[Tewi]

Yeah, that's an interesting thing. Originally in my post I had written, should not exist (except perhaps with some parents and their children). But yes, I decided that was still conditional in a way. It's a different scope than universal unconditional love. But I wouldn't be opposed to calling it unconditional love, because within its scope it is technically unconditional. I think to refer to what I was talking about (as with Reisen), we should use the term "universal unconditional love".

[Solune]

Unconditional (or perfect) love does exist, but not at a mortal level. It's a good thing to aspire to though.

 

Everybody has a price, everybody has their limits. Granted, some people have insanely high prices/limits... but they do still have them.

And not every price is paid in money. What would you do to protect the people you loved?

Love is our weak spot, but it is also the source of our strength. A blessing and a curse all rolled into one.

[CM]

It feels like my mind and body are being controlled by a different set of thoughts, morals/values, personality, etc. than normal. From a non-tulpamancy standpoint, it feels like being a completely different person. I'd honestly say my focus never changes, my awareness doesn't go with the persona switch so that I'm completely aware of sitting in my mind. Rather, for example, Reisen takes control of the awareness and acts accordingly, and my thinking is more or less controlled by my subconscious like my tulpas are. But that's just my own experience, which I hear differs from others'.

 

Sorry for quoting an old post but it caught my attention o.o I mean this sounds almost exactly like what it feels when I let Desmond take control of my body, and up until now I've just called it full body possession but now I'm not sure anymore? I started to wonder if I'm almost switching without even noticing (I don't want to say that I could be completely switched out because that feels odd and like there should be more to it but now I'm seriously wondering). Do you think that could be possible? .__. We're slightly confused, neither had thought about it before.

 

EDIT: I picked the quote from an older post but your username from a newer one because I forgot and I didn't want to risk getting it wrong or anything, so that's why the date on it looks like that :'D It should be 03-10-2015