Chat Thread

[Vādin]

Do you remember actually being in those dreams?

[Redacted System]

Interesting thing. I read through this thread and thought a bit about Torea.

 

She's not a tulpa, she's not an NPC, I guess she's kind of like one of Bear's moons, but she does need feeding and I think she has lost potency over time. It's been gradual though I think. But it's noticeable.

 

I don't think she's sentient, but what if she is? I don't know much about median systems, so I don't know if she fits that idea. Plus if she is a moon, whose is she? She was based on Azure's dream character, but took the form of one of my book characters and a personality that reminds me of a combination of a combination of Temmie from Undertale/Deltatune and Tim Messenger from Hot Fuzz. I'm not sure if she's entirely Az's, I think I might have influence over her too. Jade and Damien think they do too.

 

So far she's gone from dream character to wonderland pet to moon to NPC-ish to I have no clue what she is now.

[Guest]

It's up to you Someone, she'll be her own person if that's what you allow, or she'll remain nebulous as she is if that's your wish too. I strongly believe from the experience of the high numbers and frequent exposure to these nebulous thoughtforms that I can easily prevent them from becoming their own person. Why not let them? It's that thing you mentioned, feeding. Care and feeding of a tulpa takes time. If you had many, they're all diluted to a starvation diet and progress crawls. I don't think there is a limit anymore to the number of tulpas you can have, but they'll all suffer slow growth and weakness. Even with three, we have to manage it carefully. Their strength of will and activity comes from you're attention (or a combination of fronter's attention and fronting themselves). Dashie got a lot stronger from her exposure to fronting, so yeah I see the reasoning behind it. Still Misha can be just as strong just using minor possession and Ashley can be too as long as I give her enough of my attention in essence sharing the front.

 

My moons don't seem to benefit at all from this, they're very stable. However, if I would allow it, they might deviate and become their own people, with their own needs.

 

It's hard to say what Torea is based on my experience, since my moons and characters don't noticeably degrade.

[Redacted System]

I know we said we wouldn't create or upgrade another thoughtform to a tulpa after at least 40 years after Spark's creation, but we might eventually allow Torea to be one sooner than that (if we do). I kind of feel sorry for her for some reason. If she's not sentient, what's the point? Also, I feel bad for this but I regretted it once we created Spark, not because it was his fault, because we now had five system members. That wasn't very good for Spark at that time, and he felt sad and like he shouldn't be a part of the system.

 

Also, deviation is something to think about. It's inevitable, but I like aspects Torea's personality now. I mean, sure, she doesn't seem as advanced as my tulpas, but if she kept a similar sort of energetic personality, I think she could benefit the rest of us, but there is that question of being able to give everyone enough attention. We can sustain five, but I don't know about six.

 

Anyway, Torea might be a new thoughtform category of her own. If she's not a moon, is she a dwarf planet?

[Guest]

We could have discussed this in that thread, but if you prefer to opt out of it, that's fine too.

 

I thought about dwarf planets, but dwarf planets still orbit the sun on their own. Then again I thought about asteroids or comets for NPC's and that doesn't fit since they're not persistent. So NPC's could be meteorites in that they are used and burn out, and a recurring NPC could be a low orbit satellite? Maybe it's orbit will decay over time, or maybe you can help them to accrete enough stuff to be a moon.

 

The analogy of moon works for me because they would require intervention to become their own planet. They couldn't do it on their own.

 

A dwarf planet would be separate from you right? That sounds like it might as well be a baby tulpa with sentience.

 

If she is her own person, that's also okay, it doesn't mean she had to necessarily take a lot of time and care. Look at the difference between Vesper and Iris for instance. Vesper is a lot more active, that doesn't diminish Iris in any way if her personality is such that she doesn't need much attention.

 

Then again, Ashley doesn't really demand a lot of attention anymore. She used to need more than the other two and really she still does need more attention than she asks for.

 

The consequence of not giving her enough attention is weakness, especially her mind voice.

[Redacted System]

Torea woke up and wanted to talk.

 

She mentioned wanting to be a tulpa if she wasn't already (although not at our expense), and not knowing what she was.

 

That... felt surprisingly unlike I've ever seen or heard Torea. Big change in mindvoice too.

[Guest]

Joy wouldn't exactly be so 'kind' and 'selfless' as Torea but she's a different personality. Ren isn't really into caring one way or another. They've both said surprising and worrisome things in regard to tulpa-like statements but even an NPC can say anything.  

 

There has to be a 'switch' that's flipped that suddenly breaks them out of orbit and promotes them, otherwise the accumulation of tulpas would be never ending. Even my recurring NPCs or characters, like Drax the Destroyer from GOTG and Shakti the dragon, would definitely end up messing with me, and saying things like,'I'm your tulpa'. I don't want a Drax or Shakti tulpa, it's as easy as that. No one can force me to accept them.

 

Joy and Ren are sweet and helpful, easy going and useful, that doesn't mean I want any more tulpas, but I won't refuse to interact with them out of fear. Thus it has to be my choice by definition or my system will self destruct, so will my writing career. I don't have the luxury to just stop writing and interacting with characters, it's a great joy in my life and a very important part of my day to relieve stress.

[Breloomancer]

Moons are a metaphor that works for you, Bear, but they are exactly that, a metaphor, if what you have isn't best explained by the solar system analogy, then just don't use it because the point of the analogy is to explain how a system works, and if it doesn't explain your system then its a problem with the metaphor not the system

[Guest]

Yes, Someone might have a better model eventually for their system.

[DreamDoll]

Do you remember actually being in those dreams?

 

No, of course not!  LOL  Wouldn't that be something though?  There was one guy on Deviantart who was reporting having erotic dreams about me.  I would rather not know the details of that.  I am glad he was enjoying himself though.  Hee hee  No I think in reality it would be quite impossible for me to remember the dreams about me that happen within the brains of other human beings.  I am not too much into metaphysics.  The dream egregore bit is more or less a joke.  I do like it when others dream about me, and it is a goal to collect groupies trying to dream about me, but it's not an actual metaphysical thing or involving the astral plane or anything groovy hippie trippy beyond suggestiveness induced Melian dreams.