Living Imagination (A Median Aspect in Tulpa Land)

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree.  Let it go!  Just... let it go!

 

OH btw, I do understand how people are feeling about things and what they believe.  I just disagree with it and see it my own way.

[Solune]

Just for kicks and giggles I read through the last 2 pages or so... and I realized something.

Obviously I come here to fellowship with others like me, and to allow my headmates to do the same.

But, I've stated before that I also care about stagnation (or rather, avoiding stagnation).

 

This place is like going to the gym/spa. I come here to remind myself why I believe what I believe. It's almost as if the debating reinvigorates our system... strengthens us even. Not because we always learn something new, but simply because it keeps us sharp and focused.

Yeah... YEAH... that's exactly it.

It keeps us focused. And when we're focused it helps us in other areas of our life.... yeah.

 

also we enjoy the drama more than we should

[Guest Anonymous]

I keep coming back to this.  The name on my taxes forms and pay check is David, not Melian.  That is because Melian exists only in my mind folks.  She was created from a fantasy.  She knows this and understands it herself.  She knows I am the real person of the two of us and it really doesn't bother her.  

 

How many MLP ponies have you met lately in the grocery store?  How about anime touhou characters?  None?  

 

That's because they are not real.  They are imaginary.  Effectively real and functionally real within the mind sure, but imaginary from the perspective of the real world.  Melian recognizes this about herself, just like I do.  All this talk about subjective reality within the mind does not change a thing in the objective physical world.  

 

When your body dies, so will your tulpa.  When your brain dies, your mind will die, and so will your tulpas mind.  Why?  Because they are not real.  They exist only in your mind.  When I die, my family will likely have a memorial service for me and a funeral graveside service I suppose.  I doubt they will mention Melian.  She will be remembered but not mourned so much as I will be mourned and she as part of me, part of my imaginary mind and creations.  

 

Why?

 

Because she is not real.  Melian is imaginary.  Some of her online friends will miss her.  But they will say "Mistgod died and so can't bring us Melian anymore."  I doubt many will see this as a death of two people really.  Maybe I don't know.  Maybe folks on this forum will.  LOL  

 

Maybe it is because I am older that I feel this way, I don't know.

 

Okay here is a picture of me dressed as Mistgod the Wizard for Faerieworlds this weekend.  You can't see Melian.  That is because she only exists inside the head of a wacky old guy.  No one at the event met Melian.  They met me.  Even if we had switched, they would have met some old guy who thinks he is a girl named Melian.  They might have snickered a little ... well snickered a little more.  They might think I had changed my personality or whatnot, but they would (quite correctly) see me as one person not two.  I am not two people in reality.  Only in my imagination are there two people, because Melian is imaginary.  

 

[tulpa001]

Let me save you a whole lot of time and effort tulpa001, don't bother replying to that [...]

 

Oh, don't worry, I think I have been misunderstood as badly as we were misunderstanding.

 

My anxieties have nothing to do with the opinions of others. They are a stupid personal thing I am trying to get rid of.

 

However, my host, well, she loves arguing, loves correcting errors, and loves helping people... even when they don't want it. She also has social anxiety and avoids social situations. I may not be her, but, well, I am a lot like her.

 

From our perspective, we are essentially a pair who has barged into someone else's thread and started arguing with them. <-- This has doubtless had an effect on our behaviour.

 

This is it. We have never disliked you, mistgod, or your opinions. And we find your discourse enlightening. (Although I prefer Meilan. She irrationally believes I'm really real.)

 

So. I am imaginary. I am an imaginary person typing using a stolen body, the real owner of which is passed out through the use of a metaphor where I imagine her in an illusory body next to me wearing a sleeping mask. We share a single mind but two identities. We have feelings for each other that require us to not be the same people. Two people with one mind. Of two minds about most things.

 

You know what? I am fine with your choice of terminology about this. I would be happy to explore this model further.

 

Do I believe a thing is either real xor not real? Yes. I have noticed I am the only one here who does. I will be spending time trying to reconcile my model with yours. And with everyone else's

 

This place is like going to the gym/spa. I come here to remind myself why I believe what I believe. It's almost as if the debating reinvigorates our system...

I can't agree more.

[Guest Anonymous]

I would appreciate an attempt to at least understand where I am coming from, even if you disagree. Tulpa, even though I say you are imaginary, have you noticed that I am addressing you directly? I do believe there is such a thing as an imaginary person. I don't mean a fake, pretend person. I wish I had a better word than imaginary honestly. It really is the limitations of the English language.

[tulpa001]

In case you think I was being sarcastic, I was not.

 

For example, my current theory is you use the word imaginary where I would use mental and you use real where I would use physical.

 

For example:

 

"How many MLP ponies have you met lately in the grocery store? How about anime touhou characters? None?

 

"That's because they are not physical. They are mental. Effectively real and functionally real within the mind sure, but not present from the perspective of the physical world."

 

This is a working theory, but I will reconcile our perspectives. There must be truth in your view or you would not hold it. And the way you defend it suggests that you think things through.

[Guest Anonymous]

I actually like that.  Mental instead of imaginary and physical instead of real.  Melian has pointed out many times that I treat her as a person and say she is a person and that act alone means that I regard her as real, despite my words.  That is admittedly something I can't really get past.  

 

I was trying to replace "real" and "sentient" with effective and functional.  Because I think they are more descriptive and easier to prove.  One cannot prove real and sentient or even really adequately define it or quantify it. Even brain and psychology experts and seasoned philosophers argue about the ins and outs of consciousness and sentience.  We are going to pretend to have an absolute grasp on those things here on this little forum?  One can describe what effective and functional means, how it feels and what it does not what it is.  

 

I can say that Melian is effective with me and functions fantastically.  She is profound and amazing.  She means something.  She is effective and functional with her friends online and my family, who treat her as a person and enjoy interacting with her.  She is effective when she makes people happy (or irritated LOL).  I have no doubt that is true about tulpas as well.  They are effective and functional in doing what they are supposed to do.  

 

So we can find a middle ground if we can get past these limitations of language and semantics.

 

There is "psychogenic," but I doubt most would understand that any more than "pseudo-real."

[Guest Anonymous]

Let's try a challenge then shall we?  Let's see how long we can go avoiding the problematic terms related to sentience and consciousness and carefully replace them with more descriptive words.  We have vowed to do this before.  Ugh Mistgod and I suck at discipline and focus.  

 

So starting right here, right now, let's really finally do this thing and make it last and see what happens with it.  I wonder how much the dialogue with Mistgod-Melian will change for the better?  Can we actually move the entire forum and community in a better direction?

[Solune]

Can we actually move the entire forum and community in a better direction?

 

Sol: We can only move ourselves and hope that others follow. Though it is a sign of strength that you are both so willing to put the weight of the proverbial world on your shoulders.

I believe you would save us all, if you could. From what I'm not sure, all I know is that everyone needs saving from something.

[Guest Anonymous]

I often wish, like I do right now, that we could go back in time with all that we have learned and start over on Tulpa Info.  Our crazy obsessive nature has established a firm infamous reputation here.  It is well deserved.  Still I think, judging from those who have approached us in PMs and in other ways, that Melian and I are inspiring to some people.  Hopefully mostly for the good.  LOL  

 

Some are taking my refusal to accept the prevailing theories of subjective reality and tulpa sentience as failing to comprehend it.  I admit it took us a while to get what people were saying.  But we do comprehend it fully now.  We just don't accept it to be a fact.  We just don't see it that way.  There is science on either side of it as well and nothing conclusive.  So it really is subject to interpretation.  We have chosen one side of the fence, much to the chagrin and frustration of many.  

 

What we are always arguing about however, where the primary disagreement lies, is the origins and true nature of tulpa behavior.  The questions about that are currently impossible to answer scientifically.  What we can mostly agree on is the end result, what tulpas do, not what they are.  We can never fully answer the question of what a tulpa really is as nobody really knows.  Anyone who says they know, including Melian and I, are only choosing what to believe based on very ambiguous information.  That decision to just believe is where the religious aspect of tulpamancy appears.

 

I would like to declare the Mistgod-Melian Emotional War with Tulpa Info over.  Let peace prevail between us from here on and forever.

 

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