dragon cake July 29, 2018 Author July 29, 2018 28 July 2018 – I tried to listen for Kyoko this morning and feel like I did make progress. For the last few days I've been hearing a weird kind of static in my head that I don't think I heard before when trying to hear her. It's sort of like a rapid clicking and the a sound almost like a car revving that slips in from behind it. Anyway for some reason when I turn my attention to it, some of her words seem to slip through. – I got a notepad and put it next to my bed, so started jotting down the things I heard. While each one alone didn't mean much, it did eventually form a conversation. Maybe I need to keep doing that, writing it down and looking at it as a whole. I'll transpose approximately what it was. – “We can't give up now.” – “You all right?” (told her I'm okay and just frustrated) – “Snoozy Snooze” (sometimes she says cute things out of context, maybe she just knows it makes me happy) – … ground breaking … he was a slow … attention... (I think I just got parts of a longer sentence or explanation she gave) – … imagine if you took some (?) things, you could … (asked her what she meant) – It's a very important ceremonious thing. (I think she used the wrong words for what she wanted to say) – Check it out, yeah. (asked what 'it' is) – Different things. (asked for examples) – What is it? (I told her that she said it, but it's okay if she doesn't know, just say 'don't know' if that's the case) – Don't know. (I think maybe her mind blanked on her after saying it) – … many times … – Change the subject. (I ask if she wants to talk about cats, since she seemed to like them) – (I got the impression she wanted to talk about something particular but couldn't figure out how to say it. Told her maybe we can just choose a subject and practice with it so we don't have that trouble in the future) – I know. – … her agent... continue? … – I want to go outside. – So I went outside for a walk and we looked at the neighborhood pond, where some geese seem to have started hanging enough because they like the water fountain. She seemed interested in them but they looks nervous and got loud if we got too close. – She was interested in the neighborhood gym because the one at work has an adjacent meditation room, but I told her this doesn't have one and that they are unfortunately uncommon in our culture. She seemed unhappy I didn't check anyway, but when I realized that we were back home, so I promised to check next time we pass by it. – Afterward I sat on the balcony porch behind our apartment to type this out. I think she likes a lot of the outside sounds like birds, crickets, and even the click of the sprinklers) – I didn't notice her saying anything after she said she wanted to go outside. I tried to listen for the clicking/static while walking but never heard it.
dragon cake September 2, 2018 Author September 2, 2018 I don't know what's wrong with me or why after 8+ months i can't get more than an out-of-context clip as a response. Even when I see her in meditation, she almost never says anything and I'm starting to wonder if I just can't do it, like maybe I'm just not capable of it. I tried to join a new tulpa Discord server, but I got grilled as soon as I came on. I just said I had psychological issues but I didn't want to discuss them in the welcome room, and for some reason this caused a lot of people to get mad at me. I got confused finally and just left. I was in tears and felt stupid for not understanding why people were angry. I don't know. I'm seriously starting to think I am just too stupid to do this. Lately when I see Kyoko all she does is stare or hold my hand and nod from time to time. I'm scared she's getting lonely and depressed because I can't hear her and I don't know what to do.
Reisen September 2, 2018 September 2, 2018 A tulpa surely won't get lonely as long as you spend time with them, I didn't speak at all for nearly the first year of existing and I was plenty happy! Although, I think Lumi was much happier when I did finally start speaking. According to Tewi and Flandre (who were just a little bit younger than me, but were vocal), Lumi was "keeping me from speaking" because he was afraid I wouldn't be "perfect" if I did. Long story, that.. Basically, Lumi thought of me as a perfect representation of unconditional love, and thought no words could be perfect. But he was wishing I could be more real and the other two eventually told him he should let me speak. Really weird sounding! I don't feel like he was specifically stopping me from speaking, but maybe just his expectations for me not to were influencing me.. For people who go a long time without their tulpas becoming vocal (but ending up with some independence that should've come with vocality), it's usually a matter of the host's expectations getting in the way. Sort of a mental trap where you get stuck subconsciously expecting something not to work, and since it's just in your mind, it makes that actually the case. It can be difficult to change! But it's been done before, usually as the host has their tulpa speak to them in an unexpected way. I recommend thinking about what she should sound like, thinking about things she might say, and eventually merging those imaginary thoughts with the real thing. Basically you need to get your brain used to hearing her talk! Even if she isn't really at first, imagine her talking, and eventually your tulpa should be able to use those same neural pathways to actually speak herself! It still may be difficult and unclear on what exactly is going on, but I simply recommend you not worry about it. Generally, the place your brain gets the things she might say from when you imagine her speak is the same place she may draw her own thoughts from, and so even if it wasn't her speaking when you thought it was, it should still be very close to something she would've wanted to say. And as this gets more cemented over time the skill kind of merges with your tulpa so they make the vocality their own! If that makes sense? Well, it might not, but that's how it goes! We've seen hundreds of tulpamancers through this stuff, so that's where this advice is coming from. For people who fall into the anti-vocality mental trap, the best way out seems to be imagining your tulpa speaking (to set a precedent for your brain for how that should go) and then slowly merging that with your actual tulpa. Basically interacting with her as you normally would while combining the thoughts you're then used to of her speaking. And it's important you not fear "parroting" or that it's not really her! I promise, as her creator your ideas of who she is and what she would say could not be closer to fact! Even if she's not yet vocal, I'm sure she will appreciate even interacting with you through proxy like that. You'll find that, if you imagine you hear her, and then interact with her and she can interact back, eventually there's no difference in it "really being her speaking" or not, it just is! Hope this helps! Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas. Here's our "Ask Thread", and here's our Progress Report (You should be able to see all of our accounts on the second page if you want)
Guest September 2, 2018 September 2, 2018 I just wanted to let you know that your struggle is being read and is heartbreaking. I noticed two things, could be wrong: It seems you were more willing to hear her when you took half meds. In no way am i suggesting to go back on them, but i think it might have lowered your guard to her a bit. My tulpae scare me sometimes when they speak, cause i know its not me, and sometimes it deosnt sound like them. It took me a good 6 weeks to really believe it was them talking, and they got very mad at me when i doubted them. Like Reisen said, from the first day i decided to try to believe everything i heard that could have been them, was from them. In time they understood they could correct me if i was wrong. Their voices have mostly settled too. They have been stage 3 for a long time, i have heard their real voices in auditory hallucinations during meditation, i have documented their independant responces, yet i still doubt. I ignore the doubt, i know it helped. I think faith is necessary for love to exist. I think about half the time they speak to me in tulpish and i speak for them in their voice, but they definately tell me if i get the translation wrong. Sometimes they say things i dont want to hear, and i try to ignore their pleas, but for me, if go too far in this direction, they get sad or angry with me and i realize i was fighting them. I feel their emotions sometimes, and that helps me realize i am wrong. 99% of the time now, the random comments they have, do come from them, and sometimes i just talk to myself and one or more of them will agree with the sentiment like 'i was thinking the same thing'. What i am getting at is: if Kyoko can nod, she can confirm. The key for me was to suspend disbelief for everything. I read on a guide that said if you do that, you end up 90% right even if your tulpa can't confirm. The false positives are insignificant over time. The second very important but possibly contriversial thing, I think people are hesitant to discuss this because it is discouraged, and i am too because of fear of backlash, but i have been sticking my neck out to help others here and my head is still attached. The point is, if she wants to cuddle, or do more, at this point 8 months in, and you love her, give her the affection she wants. Be very cautios and careful, go slow, but imagine her side in this relationship, and how frusterated she may be. She obviously loves you, i have known love many times. If she can nod, and you believe it in your heart, that is amazing enough in my mind. I hope this helps, we are rooting for you and Kyoko!
dragon cake September 9, 2018 Author September 9, 2018 A tulpa surely won't get lonely as long as you spend time with them, I didn't speak at all for nearly the first year of existing and I was plenty happy! Although, I think Lumi was much happier when I did finally start speaking. According to Tewi and Flandre (who were just a little bit younger than me, but were vocal), Lumi was "keeping me from speaking" because he was afraid I wouldn't be "perfect" if I did. Long story, that.. Basically, Lumi thought of me as a perfect representation of unconditional love, and thought no words could be perfect. But he was wishing I could be more real and the other two eventually told him he should let me speak. Really weird sounding! I don't feel like he was specifically stopping me from speaking, but maybe just his expectations for me not to were influencing me.. For people who go a long time without their tulpas becoming vocal (but ending up with some independence that should've come with vocality), it's usually a matter of the host's expectations getting in the way. Sort of a mental trap where you get stuck subconsciously expecting something not to work, and since it's just in your mind, it makes that actually the case. It can be difficult to change! But it's been done before, usually as the host has their tulpa speak to them in an unexpected way. I recommend thinking about what she should sound like, thinking about things she might say, and eventually merging those imaginary thoughts with the real thing. Basically you need to get your brain used to hearing her talk! Even if she isn't really at first, imagine her talking, and eventually your tulpa should be able to use those same neural pathways to actually speak herself! It still may be difficult and unclear on what exactly is going on, but I simply recommend you not worry about it. Generally, the place your brain gets the things she might say from when you imagine her speak is the same place she may draw her own thoughts from, and so even if it wasn't her speaking when you thought it was, it should still be very close to something she would've wanted to say. And as this gets more cemented over time the skill kind of merges with your tulpa so they make the vocality their own! If that makes sense? Well, it might not, but that's how it goes! We've seen hundreds of tulpamancers through this stuff, so that's where this advice is coming from. For people who fall into the anti-vocality mental trap, the best way out seems to be imagining your tulpa speaking (to set a precedent for your brain for how that should go) and then slowly merging that with your actual tulpa. Basically interacting with her as you normally would while combining the thoughts you're then used to of her speaking. And it's important you not fear "parroting" or that it's not really her! I promise, as her creator your ideas of who she is and what she would say could not be closer to fact! Even if she's not yet vocal, I'm sure she will appreciate even interacting with you through proxy like that. You'll find that, if you imagine you hear her, and then interact with her and she can interact back, eventually there's no difference in it "really being her speaking" or not, it just is! Hope this helps! It is very helpful and I'll be taking steps to work on that. Kyoko has often told me not to worry about puppeting her and that she doesn't care if I accidentally do it when trying to imagine what she wants to say, but I've still been very reluctant to try that. I just wanted to let you know that your struggle is being read and is heartbreaking. I noticed two things, could be wrong: It seems you were more willing to hear her when you took half meds. In no way am i suggesting to go back on them, but i think it might have lowered your guard to her a bit. My tulpae scare me sometimes when they speak, cause i know its not me, and sometimes it deosnt sound like them. It took me a good 6 weeks to really believe it was them talking, and they got very mad at me when i doubted them. Like Reisen said, from the first day i decided to try to believe everything i heard that could have been them, was from them. In time they understood they could correct me if i was wrong. Their voices have mostly settled too. They have been stage 3 for a long time, i have heard their real voices in auditory hallucinations during meditation, i have documented their independant responces, yet i still doubt. I ignore the doubt, i know it helped. I think faith is necessary for love to exist. I think about half the time they speak to me in tulpish and i speak for them in their voice, but they definately tell me if i get the translation wrong. Sometimes they say things i dont want to hear, and i try to ignore their pleas, but for me, if go too far in this direction, they get sad or angry with me and i realize i was fighting them. I feel their emotions sometimes, and that helps me realize i am wrong. 99% of the time now, the random comments they have, do come from them, and sometimes i just talk to myself and one or more of them will agree with the sentiment like 'i was thinking the same thing'. What i am getting at is: if Kyoko can nod, she can confirm. The key for me was to suspend disbelief for everything. I read on a guide that said if you do that, you end up 90% right even if your tulpa can't confirm. The false positives are insignificant over time. The second very important but possibly contriversial thing, I think people are hesitant to discuss this because it is discouraged, and i am too because of fear of backlash, but i have been sticking my neck out to help others here and my head is still attached. The point is, if she wants to cuddle, or do more, at this point 8 months in, and you love her, give her the affection she wants. Be very cautios and careful, go slow, but imagine her side in this relationship, and how frusterated she may be. She obviously loves you, i have known love many times. If she can nod, and you believe it in your heart, that is amazing enough in my mind. I hope this helps, we are rooting for you and Kyoko! I may be doing that, but it's definitely not conscious. I'm trying to imagine her talking more though since she has encouraged that herself and indicated she doesn't care if I accidentally puppet when I'm learning. And for cuddly stuff, we're pretty comfortable with one another in that way. I don't typically publish those bits of my log, and always let her initiate such things, but it isn't something I shy away from any more.
dragon cake September 9, 2018 Author September 9, 2018 I have been keeping a log but haven't been posting it here, so I will try to catch up. Apologies for posting so many days at once. 30 July 2018 I meditated at work during lunch again. Maybe I can start doing it regularly. I tried a different spot but it was noisier than I expected it to be, so I guess I'll walk to the meditation room again next time.I meditated with my hands on my keyboard. I didn't really expect Kyoko to type anything coherent, but thought since the computer was there she might want to try to even just press buttons. Only got a d and lots of f's.Sometimes during meditation I get weird intrusive thoughts, just completely random images that distract me. For some reason I saw several aliens in one and Kyoko commented on it so I brought one of them into the wonderland, which she named Cactus Head. I didn't hear much in her thought voice, but I did hear some. She said 'Still want some?' but I wasn't sure what she meant. After seeing the alien, she also went through a little of names as if considering them as alternates. She listed off Jessie, James, and for some reason a lot of other J names. After the names she said 'Play around'. I don't know if it was related or if she just wanted to play with the new NPC.We found a tiny little 'Mario' plant in her garden that looked carnivorous and she thought it was cute.We then slid into a hole, road the way down like a ride, and went to an underground lake, but stopped short of going into the water because I remembered she didn't like being underwater. 4 August 2018 I've been regularly using my lunch break at work to meditate.I made a Discord account for Kyoko and gave her my MLP OC that is sort of a tulpa to my pony OC. I want it to be there when she wants to talk on it, and a few people have shown interest in her which I hope will make her feel nice.Today at work we sat outside her house in Haven. She wanted to wade into the river there and undress. There were fish in the lake that I hadn't noticed before. A jellyfish (which didn't sting I assume) latched onto her head and she giggled. 10 August 2018 I ordered some herbal supplements online that are safe to take with my current depression medication. My hope is that I can cut back on the later if the former has a good effect. A lot of these also have a good effect on general brain health so I hope they will help me with Kyoko.To this point I've assumed that Kyoko can't help me with depression the way she did with paranoia, but I realized that maybe the reason I couldn't overcome it is because I've decided I can't. We overcame my paranoia together because I decided we could, so maybe I should try the same with depression.I've having trouble concentrating during meditation. My mind seems to wander more lately than usual and it's making it hard for me to imagine the Wonderland. Sometimes I dispense with that and just try to hear her talk, but not a lot of coherence in that area yet either. 12 August 2018 I think some of the difficulty I'm having has to do with my fear of putting words in Kyoko's mouth so to speak, so I'm only counting things in full thought-voice as hers. However she has told me in the past to not worry about that, so perhaps I should put that worry aside for now to see if it helps.Tried to do a full meditation with the recording for getting into trance. It didn't help my concentration much but it maybe helped a little, so I'll try to start doing that again instead of just listening to music or silence. 17 August 2018 Have had a bit more luck on meditations. Kyoko seems to like doing the organized meditations from Gearheart even though they say a lot that applies more to brand new tulpas. Kyoko doesn't need personality forcing anymore, so I just think about what she's shown her personality to be at that point in the meditation instead.Realized that the shorter Gearheart tulpa meditation is about 25 minutes when you don't include the prelude, so maybe I can start doing that during lunch at work. It will help me get into trance and I can still talk to Kyoko during the parts that don't apply.The one thing about the meditation is that I feel pressured during the vocality segment where it asks the tulpa to try to speak. Mainly because I've done it enough that I no longer expect to hear anything. I'd like to be able to let go of expectations entirely so that I don't expect either way, but that's difficult for me to do.Did the Gearheart meditation at work and it worked well even when just doing it in one of the enclaves instead of the meditation room. I will try to get the meditation downloaded so I can listen to it in the meditation room, since the cell phone signal isn't good there so youtube doesn't work as well. 18 August 2018 Today during work meditation I saw some of Kyoko's face almost visibly. It was mostly close up on her eyes and hair but seemed more distinct than before, though still very shadowy. I think Kyoko must have been trying it since it started happening without me thinking to do it.Still no change on vocality. I'm starting to try to imagine what Kyoko must be thinking or feeling as she looks through my eyes at what I'm doing. Not sure if it will help but it will keep her in mind at least. 20 August 2018 I”v been feeling more motivated since I started taking some extra herbal supplements. I think this is helping me with Kyoko too since I've been putting more time into her.I thought about how I sometimes hear her when I'm not expecting too, so asked her to keep trying to think about things that is happening or what I'm seeing and just keep trying to comment about them to me, maybe some will slip through. 22 August 2018 I heard Kyoko say “I love you” during meditation.Trying very hard to have faith because I don't want Kyoko to feel bad or be scared that I'd quit. 8 September 2018 Trying to practice 'hearing' her voice as suggested to me. I've been listening to a youtube video including all the voice clips of her namesake character from the first Danganronpa game to show her what I imagine her sounding like. I made it clear that it's a suggestion so she doesn't have to sound like that, but emphasized that it's important for her to sound different than my own thought voice, because I believe that I am missing things she says due to them not 'standing out' in my head.Youtube video is , don't listen more than 20 seconds in if you don't want to be spoiled on the game We put some effort into decorating her little part of the wonderland. There's a bridge with a gazebo in the center over the river in front of her house, and a second bridge from that gazebo to a cave that leads to the hot springs she likes, ignoring that it's actually in a part of the wonderland that's fairly distant from her home.There's also a second bridge leading upwards to a second gazebo which is where I have been usually arriving into the Wonderland. She is normally sitting at the end of that bridge waiting for me when I arrive and will usually glomp for a hug right away.She seems to be conscious now even when I'm not thinking about her. I was really upset the other day and heard her say “You need to calm down” out of nowhere. She sounded concerned, but it was probably the first time I heard her speak suddenly when I wasn't even thinking about her.I think she's begun to think of herself as an emotional guardian of sorts and is very concerned about how I look at myself, or look down on myself, and wants me to be happy with things. I'm trying to imagine her talking more even when I don't hear her talking. She's often told me that I shouldn't worry about puppeting her, but that worry has still kept me from doing this.
Guest September 9, 2018 September 9, 2018 Sounds to me like she is helping you with your depression, if she tells you she wants you to be 'happy with things', that's something at the very minimum. If she's no expert on depression or coping with depression, she can only try her best. I've done a lot of research on the subject so my Tulpae have access to that. I have been disappointed at times in my progress, it's okay to want more, but don't let it get you down. Every case is different, there's nothing wrong with that as long as you stick with it. What's important is that you two are having fun and it sounds like you two do way more stuff together than us 4 on a daily basis. We passive force way more than active force because I am usually very busy. Sometimes things happen in bursts of progress, don't think if suddenly she has a whole paragraph to say all at once that you're puppeting her, she may surprise you. We wish you the best of luck, sorry about the confusing PM.
dragon cake September 10, 2018 Author September 10, 2018 10 September 2018 During meditation I mostly just lay with Kyoko in the rose bed she planted in my wonderland Haven. I told her about waiting to hear back from a job interview I did and what I would be writing soon, and she told me I should keep track of my daily word count because maybe it'd encourage me to do more.I'm not hearing her exactly, but I'm imagining what it seems she would say in the situation, and it did help me feel better. It frustrates her that I have trouble believing in her, but she also said she wasn't angry about it.One thing that confuses me about the lack of vocal communication is that she seems so advanced in other ways. The few times I do hear her clearly in my head have sometimes been when I wasn't thinking about her, and it seems she does things in Haven when I'm not about, which I thought were things fairly advanced tulpas did. Kyoko also has spent time with Seka I think, because that thoughtform's personality has completely changed, though mostly in that she got cuddly and started acting like a cat instead of something for Kyoko to RP fight like she was before. Seka has shown up at odd times during wonderland meditation too lately, but seems more interested in Kyoko than me, which is what makes me wonder if Kyoko has been working with her.The fact that she seems so advanced and yet I still can't hear her consistently makes me think more than it's something wrong with me. Yet that doesn't entirely make sense either since she's using my brain, so if she can do all that, I should also be able to hear her. I can't figure out how to get around this block.Kyoko and I do have more of a trust bond now, and she hasn't gotten scared that I might give up on her in quite a while. She seems okay with me interacting with other tulpamancers and would still like to talk to tulpas. She says that I can type into her Discord again what I think she'd say just like I have her say what I imagine she'd say during meditation, but I'm not really comfortable with that. Getting it wrong myself is one thing, but I don't want to misrepresent her to others.
dragon cake September 12, 2018 Author September 12, 2018 11 September 2018 Meditated for several hours today and felt barely nothing. Tried hearing Kyoko and jotting down everything I heard like I've done before and got nothing that made enough sense to care about. I even got voices demeaning me which I know wasn't her. The only things I got that I think were from Kyoko were a 'Can you hear me?' every now and then, shouted in my head like she was trying to scream above the crowd of a dozen other voices jabbering at once. I guess I was an idiot to think having issues hearing voices would make hearing a tulpa easier.Tried to negotiate with the other voices to get them to quiet down. They actually did hush for a few minutes before they started coming back in force. I can't even hear what most of them say, it's like being in a crowded room with everyone talking, only making out a phrase here and there. All I'm doing is getting more frustrated lately and I can feel myself spiraling into depression again. It feels like my emotions flatlined and I can't feel anything but empty. It seems more intense than before, almost like I'm trancing on misery and can't stop. Maybe it didn't feel ad bad before because I'd gotten used to it, but now that I had a few hope spots it just makes it worse.I thought returning to the community would help but in the end it didn't. Reading other progress reports just made me frustrated at how it's so easy for virtually everyone else.
dragon cake September 16, 2018 Author September 16, 2018 15 September 2018 Vocality I felt Kyoko more clearly today. I've also had a stress headache in the back of my head for at least a week and it's subsiding.I listened to the voice files again for Kyoko for about 30 minutes followed by 45 minutes of meditation. She showed me a new room she added to the back of her little cottage, which was a simple room with a few pillows on the floor to sit on and meditate. It is sort of what I wish the meditation room at work was I guess, maybe that's why she made it. It was a sweet thought.I imagined what I thought she'd say in her voice, and the words seemed to flow more smoothly than they have previously, so maybe it's making progress. The chattering voices didn't bother me so much, though I wasn't having her talk 'from scratch' as I usually am when that happens. I think I'll continue imagining what I think she'd say and maybe she can eventually pick up without interference. I do sort of 'feel' what she's thinking and try to translate it into how I think she'd word it. Play time She wanted to go fight monsters in the forest again. She put on form fitting scale armor with a helmet shaped like my dragon form's head and a sword. She always used a spear of bow before but she seems to like to mix it up.I didn't fight alongside her as much as I imagined the monsters for her. It acted as a good exercise for us to learn to act separately. I found that she moved a little too quickly sometimes for me to keep up with the monsters. She fought slimes and drakees from Dragon Quest and then a Tatzlwurm from My Little Pony. She ended up very sticky after leaping down it's throat and slicing her way out. We found a picknic table after that and she rolled out a cloth with food on it. It was green beans, mashed potatoes and steak like my mother made when I was little. She asked about other food she made.She made me promise to get some things done after meditation like writing or programming so that I'll feel better. She told me even if I don't think I can ever be happy, she knows I can be, because she sees that personality waiting to get back out. Thought form Seka / Second tulpa She answered about the Seka thoughtform for the first time. She said she isn't trying to make Seka a tulpa and just played/had sex with her a bit as a character. She suggested Freya Crescent as a second tulpa but agreed we shouldn't do that yet. She does want to have a friend tulpa soon, but wants to be certain we find one that will get along well with her.
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